More disk brake in the peleton problems
Discussion
Kawasicki said:
Chicken Chaser said:
Discs do provide an advantage on big descents. Not everyone in the pro peloton is an insane bike handler nor are they gung ho. Some are clearly better than others at throwing themselves downhill. Discs allow greater modulation, less fade and more confidence in stopping, particularly in the dry. Anyone who suggests rim brakes are as good as discs simply haven't tried them downhill. I didn't like the idea of discs on road bikes at first but since trying them I am converted, whether they look good or not.
Front and rear suspension optimised for road courses would also offer handling and road holding advantages.I wonder if we will see full suspension pro road race bikes soon?
So maybe you don't need to go the whole hog with suspension on road bikes, just build a bit of flex into the frame. Kind'a amounts to the same thing as riding with a little les pressure in your tyres I guess.
upsidedownmark said:
1) Because they stick out in places you are likely to contact a way that the aforementioned items do not..
Well, except that's pretty much rubbish. A small disc, right in the middle of a massive wheel and tyre mean it's actually rather hard to come into contact with the disc. Try it, get a wheel and tyre and hit yourself with it, it's really hard to get hit with the disc. And then you put the frame around it for even more protection. Contrast that with the chain ring. big, spikey, and sticks out the bottom of the bike like a circular saw. And yet nobodys ever claimed they were dangerous!
Us MTBers have been riding with (massive!) discbrakes for years, and we've been falling off left right and centre for years, and yet we are not being sliced to pieces by our discs, so what makes you roadies any different??
Max_Torque said:
Well, except that's pretty much rubbish. A small disc, right in the middle of a massive wheel and tyre mean it's actually rather hard to come into contact with the disc. Try it, get a wheel and tyre and hit yourself with it, it's really hard to get hit with the disc. And then you put the frame around it for even more protection.
Contrast that with the chain ring. big, spikey, and sticks out the bottom of the bike like a circular saw. And yet nobodys ever claimed they were dangerous!
Us MTBers have been riding with (massive!) discbrakes for years, and we've been falling off left right and centre for years, and yet we are not being sliced to pieces by our discs, so what makes you roadies any different??
And isn't it lucky that wheels aren't built with 32 thin bits of wire protruding from the hub to the rim, imagine getting an arm or a leg caught in those?Contrast that with the chain ring. big, spikey, and sticks out the bottom of the bike like a circular saw. And yet nobodys ever claimed they were dangerous!
Us MTBers have been riding with (massive!) discbrakes for years, and we've been falling off left right and centre for years, and yet we are not being sliced to pieces by our discs, so what makes you roadies any different??
It's also funny how you don't hear about Moto GP riders having limbs severed by their huge discs when they chuck their bikes down the road at 150mph plus.
Every new innovation in cycling during the fifty years I've been involved has had people queuing up to dismiss it as either unnecessary, dangerous or unreliable, often all three. Indexing, clipless pedals, integrated shifting, computers, aluminium, carbon fibre, etc etc. And you know what? Five years down the line the naysayers wouldn't be seen dead on anything else.
Razor O Rourke said:
Every new innovation in cycling during the fifty years I've been involved has had people queuing up to dismiss it as either unnecessary, dangerous or unreliable, often all three. Indexing, clipless pedals, integrated shifting, computers, aluminium, carbon fibre, etc etc. And you know what? Five years down the line the naysayers wouldn't be seen dead on anything else.
Don't forget that invention of the devil, the rear derailleur. What sort of man needs one of those?! And in pro cycling team support, turbo trainer warm up/down and many other things. I see some people use the example of wider tyres as something that has gone away and come back. They only went away became the pros will always take whatever they think will make them faster. Even at the expense of comfort. Turns out on wider tyres they were wrong so they've come back.Clearly not all anti-disc pro riders think they are dangerous in a crash (cuts etc) either. Quite a number seem to think a mixed peloton means they will cause a crash because they're better. Personally I don't think outright braking performance in optimum conditions is better, but across a wider range of conditions they're more consistent and you can modulate them much better. Something many will talk about being being a desirable braking quality elsewhere on this forum. Personally I'd take hydraulic discs every time now. Mechanical discs haven't impressed me hugely on the one bike I have with them. Eventually they'll be replaced with hydraulics.
R1gtr said:
I am an idiot? I didn't say they don't produce disc models did I? I said they have not embraced and pushed the technology as much as some of the other companies. Discs perform better and now wheels can be built without compromise (brake track). Carbon wheels become much more viable.
You can choose to dismiss disc brakes for whatever reason you want but doing it on style is a bit dumb. Take it you only run 9 speed 12-23 cassette as big cogs are ugly as sin or have you embraced progress and moved on to 11 speed 11-28?
How do you push/embrace? Sell it on bikes, and that's exactly what those companies do? You can choose to dismiss disc brakes for whatever reason you want but doing it on style is a bit dumb. Take it you only run 9 speed 12-23 cassette as big cogs are ugly as sin or have you embraced progress and moved on to 11 speed 11-28?
I run a 11-23, 12-25 or 11-28 depending on ride too. Big cogs are ugly though. As are alloy rims with carbon fairings.
smifffymoto said:
pablo said:
smifffymoto said:
I have just bought a disc equiped bike,why?
Simply because I wanted to and I had the choice.You can choose to stick with rim brakes if you like but progress is marching on.
If wheels don't have to withstand braking heat and force I wonder if wheel development will see some changes.
The disc brake is still reliant on the contract patch on the road though, which is the tyres. If you need help modulating brake power or whatever the marketing people have told you discs offer, then the very last place you should be cycling is an alpine descent in the rain...Simply because I wanted to and I had the choice.You can choose to stick with rim brakes if you like but progress is marching on.
If wheels don't have to withstand braking heat and force I wonder if wheel development will see some changes.
It's not progress, it's something different. It offers an advantage in some situations like winter commuting but the pros, who are a lot better at bike handling than us, just don't need disc brakes.... look at Froome descending, he barely touched the brakes, just adopted a crazy position and held on for dear life, add others have said that stage want won because he had better braking capability compared to others...
Max_Torque said:
upsidedownmark said:
1) Because they stick out in places you are likely to contact a way that the aforementioned items do not..
Well, except that's pretty much rubbish. A small disc, right in the middle of a massive wheel and tyre mean it's actually rather hard to come into contact with the disc. Try it, get a wheel and tyre and hit yourself with it, it's really hard to get hit with the disc. And then you put the frame around it for even more protection. Contrast that with the chain ring. big, spikey, and sticks out the bottom of the bike like a circular saw. And yet nobodys ever claimed they were dangerous!
Us MTBers have been riding with (massive!) discbrakes for years, and we've been falling off left right and centre for years, and yet we are not being sliced to pieces by our discs, so what makes you roadies any different??
And yes, I love discs on my mountainbike. Utterly different.
In any case, pretty much everything since the first half dozen responses simply reinforce my point 2.
upsidedownmark said:
2) Because 99% of folks seem to be vehemently pro, or vehemently anti with little logic or openess to debate, so every thread descends into a tribal war.
Edited by upsidedownmark on Sunday 26th February 19:12
My experience: I built a lightish road bike this January for use in the Surrey hills, to replace a rim-braked Ribble stolen before Xmas. After some research I settled on TRP Spyre cable discs, starting with weanie lightweight Ashima 140mm rotors (but fully expecting to have to revert to 160mm if these were inadequate). Was cautious on first few rides (1st bike I've built) but amazed to see on Strava that, without trying, I was materially (5-10%) quicker on two twisty 400ft descents off Leith Hill than my previous PB's set last summer, despite surface now being damp/dry.
So I won't be going back to rim-brakes any time soon. But then I'm a feeble rider so need every assistance I can get
Other factors: I run Chinese carbon clinchers and have seen reports that rim brakes can erode the braking surfaces quite rapidly in winter cruds. Also, some ultra long distance guys say discs are easier to modulate and apply force when hands are cold and wet and numb.
I'd have liked hydraulic discs but couldn't justify the extra expense at this stage. So far, cables are good enough for me and a noticeable benefit in the wet.
Just my thoughts....
So I won't be going back to rim-brakes any time soon. But then I'm a feeble rider so need every assistance I can get
Other factors: I run Chinese carbon clinchers and have seen reports that rim brakes can erode the braking surfaces quite rapidly in winter cruds. Also, some ultra long distance guys say discs are easier to modulate and apply force when hands are cold and wet and numb.
I'd have liked hydraulic discs but couldn't justify the extra expense at this stage. So far, cables are good enough for me and a noticeable benefit in the wet.
Just my thoughts....
JustinF said:
you did research and settled on cable operated?!
Yep - Spyres have both pads pivoting symmetrically, unlike the older-design Avids where one pad does the work and the other floats freely, supposedly requiring frequent adjustment. They were good enough for Emily Chappell in the TCR. I've used Jagwire compressionless cable which improves feel (though threading the rear brake cable through the frame was a real pig of a job!).Cost was indeed a factor. Managed to find a near-new Ultegra set (sans callipers) for £350. Buying new hydraulic shifters would've added a lot to the cost. Yes I know you get better modulation with hydraulics but I suspect that's more crucial for gnarly off-road runs, descending over slippery tree trunks etc.
A guy I rode with in the cycle club this morning runs TRP HyRDs - the hybrid cable operated hydraulic callipers. He likes them - they exert more stopping force I gather.
Ive tried all 3 types of road discs in the past month, and it comes down to how well they are setup. The mechanical ones are good, and the semi hydraulic ones seem to be more consistent in how good they are, whereas some of the mechanical ones I tried were no better than a set of rim brakes. The full hydraulic system is however, superb and I couldnt find a set that wasn't.
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