Electric bicycles - who buys them?
Discussion
Read pretty much any article about e-bike geofencing and it will echo what I said above. It'll restrict you to 25kph on bike paths and up the limit once you are on the highway. Superb for commuting and deliveries. Also excellent for riding XC/gravel where you link trails with a few roads.
But on regular and mixed use trails, you'll still need to derestrict the bike. It will need type approval, registration, insurance, possibly mandatory lid, and all that good stuff.
Privately owned bike parks and trail centres could up the limit on their land I guess. It'll make no difference to the plebs ragging around on Surrons.
But on regular and mixed use trails, you'll still need to derestrict the bike. It will need type approval, registration, insurance, possibly mandatory lid, and all that good stuff.
Privately owned bike parks and trail centres could up the limit on their land I guess. It'll make no difference to the plebs ragging around on Surrons.
trails said:
Fair point 
I'm not sure how it would be enforced though. If Old Bill seemingly ignore the vast numbers of delivery riders on blatantly illegal throttle based bikes on our roads (and pavements), then would there be any real appetite to try and police off road too?
I really don't see it as an issue, the majority of where I ride are dedicated trails, so no interaction with non-riders. Where I do encounter other people I just slow down...same as I do when I'm only using my regualr bikes. Its just common courtesy.
I live in Rossendale and ride lots on the moors and trails round here. The police are most definitely NOT short handed when it comes to mucking nuisance/illegal off roaders. I'm not sure how it would be enforced though. If Old Bill seemingly ignore the vast numbers of delivery riders on blatantly illegal throttle based bikes on our roads (and pavements), then would there be any real appetite to try and police off road too?
I really don't see it as an issue, the majority of where I ride are dedicated trails, so no interaction with non-riders. Where I do encounter other people I just slow down...same as I do when I'm only using my regualr bikes. Its just common courtesy.
Can't say I see the same here on the south downs. I can recall seeing kids on Surons here twice in the last year, never once seen a quadbike tearing around. By far the biggest issue if the cops in the local paper are to be believed is dogs going after sheep. Plenty of signs around warnng that farmers will shoot dogs if they see them off leads & worrying sheep.
Dog Star said:
trails said:
Fair point
I'm not sure how it would be enforced though. If Old Bill seemingly ignore the vast numbers of delivery riders on blatantly illegal throttle based bikes on our roads (and pavements), then would there be any real appetite to try and police off road too?
I really don't see it as an issue, the majority of where I ride are dedicated trails, so no interaction with non-riders. Where I do encounter other people I just slow down...same as I do when I'm only using my regualr bikes. Its just common courtesy.
I live in Rossendale and ride lots on the moors and trails round here. The police are most definitely NOT short handed when it comes to mucking nuisance/illegal off roaders. I'm not sure how it would be enforced though. If Old Bill seemingly ignore the vast numbers of delivery riders on blatantly illegal throttle based bikes on our roads (and pavements), then would there be any real appetite to try and police off road too?
I really don't see it as an issue, the majority of where I ride are dedicated trails, so no interaction with non-riders. Where I do encounter other people I just slow down...same as I do when I'm only using my regualr bikes. Its just common courtesy.
Kawasicki said:
I'm not really sure what the issue they're trying to solve here is. This system is something you'd have to have installed on your e-bike (and the current system does it via your phone) so it's well and truly opt in only.
Amsterdam does have a problem with e-bikes, they reckon something like half of them are going above the 25kph speed limit. The people who have derestricted e-bikes and are already bombing around above the limit aren't going to be installing this on their bikes.
In which case you're back to enforcement. If there's sufficient willl then the cops will go after it. If not, then you have business as usual, most people bobbing around on standard bikes & the derestricted crew who if they're smart won't draw attention to themselves but I wouldn't rely on it.
France has fines up to 30,000 euros & a year in jail for derestricting for riders, two for retailers. I have no idea if that is enforced or not but it's on the statute book. Ultimately countries either address it or they don't. I see nothng much of an appetite for it here, maybe some grumbling around obviously dodgy Deliveroo guys conspicuously flouting the rules but even now, the only large scale enforcement I can think of was the Met clearing Tuk tuks out of the west end & using the derestriction legislation as the tool to do it.
France has fines up to 30,000 euros & a year in jail for derestricting for riders, two for retailers. I have no idea if that is enforced or not but it's on the statute book. Ultimately countries either address it or they don't. I see nothng much of an appetite for it here, maybe some grumbling around obviously dodgy Deliveroo guys conspicuously flouting the rules but even now, the only large scale enforcement I can think of was the Met clearing Tuk tuks out of the west end & using the derestriction legislation as the tool to do it.
macp said:
trails said:
macp said:
I think youre right. The name rings a bell. Allegedly doing 18mph on a 2nd hand fixed wheel.
Ped stepped off pavement whilst on the phone, they collided, he was riding a fixed wheel track bike with no brakes, and was sentenced to 18 months in a young offenders institution. It was the lack of brakes the court (rightly) had an issue with, not the speed iirc.
But the point I was trying to make was that it wasnt an ebike. And that non assisted bikes can injure or kill just as easily.Bridleways are full of idiots just waiting to step in front of you, just as London is full of Darwin candidates on their phones.
OutInTheShed said:
The point is, someone steps in front of you, your vehicle is illegal, Go to Jail, Do Not Pass Go, Don't collect £200.
Bridleways are full of idiots just waiting to step in front of you, just as London is full of Darwin candidates on their phones.
I live in the SE, you know, the crowded bit...the bridleways are not full, ever. Even less people in deadicated riding areas.Bridleways are full of idiots just waiting to step in front of you, just as London is full of Darwin candidates on their phones.
If your bridleways are heaving with London volumes of people, then perhaps you are riding in the wrong places.
RizzoTheRat said:
Kawasicki said:
I'm not really sure what the issue they're trying to solve here is. This system is something you'd have to have installed on your e-bike (and the current system does it via your phone) so it's well and truly opt in only.
Amsterdam does have a problem with e-bikes, they reckon something like half of them are going above the 25kph speed limit. The people who have derestricted e-bikes and are already bombing around above the limit aren't going to be installing this on their bikes.
monthou said:
Could you be a little more patronising please.
A 20mph assistance limit wouldn't change anything fundamentally.
20mph ebike assist limit, as per the US is entirely sensible and makes your bike far more natural to use. The reality is that even when you change the region it doesn't actually sit at 20 mph On my orbea rise is gets to about 18mph, maybe a bit less and then gradually tapers off the assist, so at an indicated 20mph it's pretty much all muscle power.A 20mph assistance limit wouldn't change anything fundamentally.
People who don't ride these things don't seem to realise that they aren't a binary machine, the amount of assist is directly proportional to the effort and cadence you input.
On a non emtb a fit rider can blast along a flat section at a steady 17-20mph no problem. So upping the assist to match non EU countries is all win in my opinion.
Ps...I would not support assit above that speed, that's when the line between push iron and motorised bike blurrs considerably.
Keeping e-bikes to 15-ish mph is perhaps pointless on an actual road, but it's different on a bridleway or shared path where pedestrians are not expecting motor vehicles.
There are journeys where a 30mph moped would be a more sensible answer than a 15mph ebike.
There are places where pedestrians can reasonably share with a 15mph ebike but not 30mph mopeds.
For other purposes, a 70mph electric motorbike would be a tidy means of transport.
I think what a lot of people actually want is something like an 'electric 125'. You'd need insurance, a helmet and a bit of training. Adequate speed to play with the traffic, and to get where you need to be in sensible time, an actual alternative to getting in your car.
Not a toy pushbike for lazy people.
Other people have journeys to do where an e-bike ticks the box and are quietly cracking on with it.
Personally my needs are either met by a dumb pedal cycle or 1000cc of proper bike, but if I had trips to do which screamed 'ebike', I'd have one by ther end of the week. YMMV!
There are journeys where a 30mph moped would be a more sensible answer than a 15mph ebike.
There are places where pedestrians can reasonably share with a 15mph ebike but not 30mph mopeds.
For other purposes, a 70mph electric motorbike would be a tidy means of transport.
I think what a lot of people actually want is something like an 'electric 125'. You'd need insurance, a helmet and a bit of training. Adequate speed to play with the traffic, and to get where you need to be in sensible time, an actual alternative to getting in your car.
Not a toy pushbike for lazy people.
Other people have journeys to do where an e-bike ticks the box and are quietly cracking on with it.
Personally my needs are either met by a dumb pedal cycle or 1000cc of proper bike, but if I had trips to do which screamed 'ebike', I'd have one by ther end of the week. YMMV!
dave_s13 said:
People who don't ride these things don't seem to realise that they aren't a binary machine, the amount of assist is directly proportional to the effort and cadence you input.
Only if you have torque sensing. Pedal sensing gives the power selected on the control box so long as the pedals are turning.The silly thing is, all ebikes are perfectly, legally, capable of doing well over 20mph... when powered by gravity rather than their own motor.
So the effect of the law is entirely gradient dependent; the fact that thousands of accidents aren't happening daily on downhills suggests that most riders are utterly capable of dealing with 20+ mph speeds in a wide variety of environments.
defblade said:
dave_s13 said:
People who don't ride these things don't seem to realise that they aren't a binary machine, the amount of assist is directly proportional to the effort and cadence you input.
Only if you have torque sensing. Pedal sensing gives the power selected on the control box so long as the pedals are turning.The silly thing is, all ebikes are perfectly, legally, capable of doing well over 20mph... when powered by gravity rather than their own motor.
So the effect of the law is entirely gradient dependent; the fact that thousands of accidents aren't happening daily on downhills suggests that most riders are utterly capable of dealing with 20+ mph speeds in a wide variety of environments.
Even then, it's a moot point given region changes are easy and widespread.
OutInTheShed said:
Keeping e-bikes to 15-ish mph is perhaps pointless on an actual road, but it's different on a bridleway or shared path where pedestrians are not expecting motor vehicles.
Again, lack of actual lived experience. The reality is that most people are sensible and courteous, and don't go tearing through pedestrians down the canal, skittling them into oblivion.dave_s13 said:
OutInTheShed said:
Keeping e-bikes to 15-ish mph is perhaps pointless on an actual road, but it's different on a bridleway or shared path where pedestrians are not expecting motor vehicles.
Again, lack of actual lived experience. The reality is that most people are sensible and courteous, and don't go tearing through pedestrians down the canal, skittling them into oblivion.Edited by trails on Thursday 21st March 17:11
Bizarre to want to limit pedal bike assist speeds when all cars can easily exceed minimum posted speed limits, and we trust those drivers to do the right thing.
I've perfectly legally done 45mph on my emtb, downhill. Yet the assistance cuts out at 15mph. Bonkers. 20mph would be much nicer for keeping up with traffic enroute to the trails.
I've perfectly legally done 45mph on my emtb, downhill. Yet the assistance cuts out at 15mph. Bonkers. 20mph would be much nicer for keeping up with traffic enroute to the trails.
bmwmike said:
Bizarre to want to limit pedal bike assist speeds when all cars can easily exceed minimum posted speed limits, and we trust those drivers to do the right thing.
Because, for better or worse, car drivers are trained and licensed. They also don’t tend to drive on pavements. CheesecakeRunner said:
bmwmike said:
Bizarre to want to limit pedal bike assist speeds when all cars can easily exceed minimum posted speed limits, and we trust those drivers to do the right thing.
Because, for better or worse, car drivers are trained and licensed. They also don’t tend to drive on pavements. Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff