UK bike sales plummet
Discussion
tertius said:
troc said:
Or a Cannondale topstone, excellent gravel bike.
I have one, confess I don’t really rate it. Nothing like as nice to ride as the Pinnacle Arkose (nicked) which it replaced. Even though the kit on the Topstone is much ‘better’ I’d go back to the Arkose if I could.I've just bought a Ragley Trig which I really like (apart from a slipping seatpost).
tertius said:
troc said:
Or a Cannondale topstone, excellent gravel bike.
I have one, confess I don’t really rate it. Nothing like as nice to ride as the Pinnacle Arkose (nicked) which it replaced. Even though the kit on the Topstone is much ‘better’ I’d go back to the Arkose if I could.
I do wonder whether a lot of ‘gravel bike’ for and feel depends whether you are coming from an mtb background (like me) and a road-riding background?Master Bean said:
dave123456 said:
The inflation was crazy to be honest. I bought a canyon cf slx 8 di2 in 2019, £3,250 from canyon iirc. Same bike, with discs now admittedly, £6,200…
Don’t want to start a discs v rim argument here but I’m not going to upgrade at that price, I’m on the lookout for a decent set of hunt wheels to stick on it and I’ll run it for another few years.
There's your problem. An oxymoron. You want an upgrade. Don’t want to start a discs v rim argument here but I’m not going to upgrade at that price, I’m on the lookout for a decent set of hunt wheels to stick on it and I’ll run it for another few years.
t again. There is nothing wrong with Hunt wheels. troc said:
tertius said:
troc said:
Or a Cannondale topstone, excellent gravel bike.
I have one, confess I don’t really rate it. Nothing like as nice to ride as the Pinnacle Arkose (nicked) which it replaced. Even though the kit on the Topstone is much ‘better’ I’d go back to the Arkose if I could. I do wonder whether a lot of ‘gravel bike’ for and feel depends whether you are coming from an mtb background (like me) and a road-riding background?dave123456 said:
The inflation was crazy to be honest. I bought a canyon cf slx 8 di2 in 2019, £3,250 from canyon iirc. Same bike, with discs now admittedly, £6,200…
Don’t want to start a discs v rim argument here but I’m not going to upgrade at that price, I’m on the lookout for a decent set of hunt wheels to stick on it and I’ll run it for another few years.
There’s a set of Prime 38 carbon wheels for sale on LFGSS for £300. No connection and no experience of the wheels but looks a good deal to me.Don’t want to start a discs v rim argument here but I’m not going to upgrade at that price, I’m on the lookout for a decent set of hunt wheels to stick on it and I’ll run it for another few years.
Many bike prices have become silly money, and bike kit seems ridiculous, too.
The lunacy is clear when compared to motorcycle clobber. For example, I could buy an RST Sabre motorcycle jacket for around the same price as some Assos jackets. Both have similar weatherproofing. However, the motorcycle jacket has had to pass various armour, abrasion-resistance and seam burst tests. The Sabre jacket also incorporates an airbag: onboard sensors (accelerometer, gyroscope, etc.) analyse the motorcyclist's movements more than 1000 times a second. An onboard computer uses this sensor data to predict the start of a crash and inflate the airbag before the rider hits the ground.
I'm sure the cycling jacket is worth the same money
The lunacy is clear when compared to motorcycle clobber. For example, I could buy an RST Sabre motorcycle jacket for around the same price as some Assos jackets. Both have similar weatherproofing. However, the motorcycle jacket has had to pass various armour, abrasion-resistance and seam burst tests. The Sabre jacket also incorporates an airbag: onboard sensors (accelerometer, gyroscope, etc.) analyse the motorcyclist's movements more than 1000 times a second. An onboard computer uses this sensor data to predict the start of a crash and inflate the airbag before the rider hits the ground.
I'm sure the cycling jacket is worth the same money
TGCOTF-dewey said:
Master Bean said:
dave123456 said:
The inflation was crazy to be honest. I bought a canyon cf slx 8 di2 in 2019, £3,250 from canyon iirc. Same bike, with discs now admittedly, £6,200…
Don’t want to start a discs v rim argument here but I’m not going to upgrade at that price, I’m on the lookout for a decent set of hunt wheels to stick on it and I’ll run it for another few years.
There's your problem. An oxymoron. You want an upgrade. Don’t want to start a discs v rim argument here but I’m not going to upgrade at that price, I’m on the lookout for a decent set of hunt wheels to stick on it and I’ll run it for another few years.
t again. There is nothing wrong with Hunt wheels. Salted_Peanut said:
Many bike prices have become silly money, and bike kit seems ridiculous, too.
The lunacy is clear when compared to motorcycle clobber. For example, I could buy an RST Sabre motorcycle jacket for around the same price as some Assos jackets. Both have similar weatherproofing. However, the motorcycle jacket has had to pass various armour, abrasion-resistance and seam burst tests. The Sabre jacket also incorporates an airbag: onboard sensors (accelerometer, gyroscope, etc.) analyse the motorcyclist's movements more than 1000 times a second. An onboard computer uses this sensor data to predict the start of a crash and inflate the airbag before the rider hits the ground.
I'm sure the cycling jacket is worth the same money
You can buy much a more expensive motorcycle jacket than the RST, and a much cheaper cycling jacket than Assos.The lunacy is clear when compared to motorcycle clobber. For example, I could buy an RST Sabre motorcycle jacket for around the same price as some Assos jackets. Both have similar weatherproofing. However, the motorcycle jacket has had to pass various armour, abrasion-resistance and seam burst tests. The Sabre jacket also incorporates an airbag: onboard sensors (accelerometer, gyroscope, etc.) analyse the motorcyclist's movements more than 1000 times a second. An onboard computer uses this sensor data to predict the start of a crash and inflate the airbag before the rider hits the ground.
I'm sure the cycling jacket is worth the same money
ChocolateFrog said:
Not that I win any races these days but there's great satisfaction beating people on machinery worth a tenth of the competition.
I've never felt that way. I've raced on poverty spec but not crowed about beating others on more exotic bikes. If you have a 300w ftp and weigh 60kg and you race against someone who has a 250w ftp and who weighs 75kg, you have a physical advantage. Even 'handicapped' by a slightly slower bike you still have an advantage that makes bike comparison meaningless.
In a road race or MTB race, there won't be an awful lot of advantage in the bike difference compared to the physical one so why crow if you beat someone on a more expensive machine?
With time trials beating someone on a full-house TT machine on a standard road bike can raise some credit but again, if you are a much more powerful cyclist, the achievement isn't there really from a bike perspective.
Faster bikes make the individual faster vs their own PB's.
They only give an advantage to someone who is racing against another who has a 'slower' bike when all else is more or less equal.
Put a Cat 1 racer on a £4000 bike and you'd still expect the Cat 1 to beat a Cat 4 on a £15000 bike. The Cat 1 wouldn't go around saying they had a great sense of self satisfaction because they had a cheaper bike.
andyeds1234 said:
You can buy much a more expensive motorcycle jacket than the RST, and a much cheaper cycling jacket than Assos.
That’s true. Nonetheless, it seems to me that cycling prices are ludicrous when I can buy an airbag-equipped motorcycle jacket for the price of some cycling jackets.Salted_Peanut said:
That’s true. Nonetheless, it seems to me that cycling prices are ludicrous when I can buy an airbag-equipped motorcycle jacket for the price of some cycling jackets.
What's the big deal with an airbag? For cycling we want jackets that are ultra-light, good wicking properties, keep us warm or dry or both, degrees of warmth for Deep Winter, Winter or Autumn, repel water, dispel heat and be aero fit or loose fit - a combo of all or just some of these depending upon our needs.
You are comparing jackets for vastly different uses and materials!
Salted_Peanut said:
andyeds1234 said:
You can buy much a more expensive motorcycle jacket than the RST, and a much cheaper cycling jacket than Assos.
That’s true. Nonetheless, it seems to me that cycling prices are ludicrous when I can buy an airbag-equipped motorcycle jacket for the price of some cycling jackets.‘High end’ anything is always poor value when viewed objectively. Assos is not cheap and cheerful kid, it’s the equivalent of the most expensive designer clothing - yes it works but you can get equally function cycle kit for hundreds of pounds less.
PastelNata said:
I've never felt that way. I've raced on poverty spec but not crowed about beating others on more exotic bikes.
If you have a 300w ftp and weigh 60kg and you race against someone who has a 250w ftp and who weighs 75kg, you have a physical advantage. Even 'handicapped' by a slightly slower bike you still have an advantage that makes bike comparison meaningless.
In a road race or MTB race, there won't be an awful lot of advantage in the bike difference compared to the physical one so why crow if you beat someone on a more expensive machine?
With time trials beating someone on a full-house TT machine on a standard road bike can raise some credit but again, if you are a much more powerful cyclist, the achievement isn't there really from a bike perspective.
Faster bikes make the individual faster vs their own PB's.
They only give an advantage to someone who is racing against another who has a 'slower' bike when all else is more or less equal.
Put a Cat 1 racer on a £4000 bike and you'd still expect the Cat 1 to beat a Cat 4 on a £15000 bike. The Cat 1 wouldn't go around saying they had a great sense of self satisfaction because they had a cheaper bike.
Time trialing is really where the difference is. If you’ve paid for a fitting/been to the tunnel/bought custom extensions then it’s very hard to overcome that difference with ability. If you have a 300w ftp and weigh 60kg and you race against someone who has a 250w ftp and who weighs 75kg, you have a physical advantage. Even 'handicapped' by a slightly slower bike you still have an advantage that makes bike comparison meaningless.
In a road race or MTB race, there won't be an awful lot of advantage in the bike difference compared to the physical one so why crow if you beat someone on a more expensive machine?
With time trials beating someone on a full-house TT machine on a standard road bike can raise some credit but again, if you are a much more powerful cyclist, the achievement isn't there really from a bike perspective.
Faster bikes make the individual faster vs their own PB's.
They only give an advantage to someone who is racing against another who has a 'slower' bike when all else is more or less equal.
Put a Cat 1 racer on a £4000 bike and you'd still expect the Cat 1 to beat a Cat 4 on a £15000 bike. The Cat 1 wouldn't go around saying they had a great sense of self satisfaction because they had a cheaper bike.
There’s a chap I used to ride with who was fairly useless, and now he’s going faster than I was (and I used to often win events) in time trials thanks mostly to equipment and modern aero tech/analysis.
With road bikes I agree, I haven’t raced for a few years now but wouldn’t think I’d be at any serious disadvantage rocking up on a 2015 Canyon aeroad.
Also I think now every new bike is disc, has electric gears. There’s just no need for people to update bikes that often. Some changes from 2005-2016 or so were big. Nothing has much moved on since then.
Edited by okgo on Sunday 3rd September 19:34
okgo said:
Time trialing is really where the difference is. If you’ve paid for a fitting/been to the tunnel/bought custom extensions then it’s very hard to overcome that difference with ability.
There’s a chap I used to ride with who was fairly useless, and now he’s going faster than I was (and I used to often win events) in time trials thanks mostly to equipment and modern aero tech/analysis.
With road bikes I agree, I haven’t raced for a few years now but wouldn’t think I’d be at any serious disadvantage rocking up on a 2015 Canyon aeroad.
Absolutely! TT bikes done properly do make a huge difference so to beat one on a standard bike you'd need a much bigger engine. In our Club the road biker who typically wins the standard category does rank well against some of those on TT bikes but only against the guys he would utterly annihilate if they were on a standard road bike. There’s a chap I used to ride with who was fairly useless, and now he’s going faster than I was (and I used to often win events) in time trials thanks mostly to equipment and modern aero tech/analysis.
With road bikes I agree, I haven’t raced for a few years now but wouldn’t think I’d be at any serious disadvantage rocking up on a 2015 Canyon aeroad.
But everywhere else, yes, your 2015 Canyon isn't going to cause you any real disadvantage. You'd see a difference chasing PBs on some segments - maybe a second or three - but in a road race, there are just too many other factors that will decide how you do.
andyeds1234 said:
You can buy much a more expensive motorcycle jacket than the RST, and a much cheaper cycling jacket than Assos.
But every single cycling jacket, without fail isn't waterproof. Either from new or at some point it'll wet out. Hunt uses Novatec hubs. Not a bad hub at all but personally I'd rather buy a Hope hub.
PastelNata said:
What's the big deal with an airbag?
For cycling we want jackets that are ultra-light, good wicking properties, keep us warm or dry or both, degrees of warmth for Deep Winter, Winter or Autumn, repel water, dispel heat and be aero fit or loose fit - a combo of all or just some of these depending upon our needs.
You are comparing jackets for vastly different uses and materials!
The manufacturers know that there's a significant minority of road cyclists who'll not think twice spending £15k on a bike. The equivalent in the motorcycle world would be north of £100k and they'd sell 5 yet it seems every other rider is on a bike worth atleast 5k. For cycling we want jackets that are ultra-light, good wicking properties, keep us warm or dry or both, degrees of warmth for Deep Winter, Winter or Autumn, repel water, dispel heat and be aero fit or loose fit - a combo of all or just some of these depending upon our needs.
You are comparing jackets for vastly different uses and materials!
Personally I think they're mugs, Pinerello must be pissing themselves that their £100 BOM frame sells for so much. But if there's people out there that want to spend that then great, people are getting paid.
My motorbike which isn't new granted but it does have a rather exquisitely built V4 engine in the middle of it all for the price of a bottom rung carbon bike with Tiagra kit, if you're lucky.
Sometimes I really hope the whole industry goes tits up and there's some sort of reset.
ChocolateFrog said:
Sometimes I really hope the whole industry goes tits up and there's some sort of reset.
I said this years ago. A friend paid 5k for a carbon Santa Cruz 8 years ago. I thought he was mad but understood his rationale. Nowadays a expensive bike has a crap finishing kit and awful wheels. Can you remember the last time you looked at a pricey bike and didn't consider the wheels on it chuckable? Or 'upgrade '?
Hugo Stiglitz said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Sometimes I really hope the whole industry goes tits up and there's some sort of reset.
I said this years ago. A friend paid 5k for a carbon Santa Cruz 8 years ago. I thought he was mad but understood his rationale. Nowadays a expensive bike has a crap finishing kit and awful wheels. Can you remember the last time you looked at a pricey bike and didn't consider the wheels on it chuckable? Or 'upgrade '?
I like to admire the nice kit from a far and just keep my eyes peeled for a nice second hand Look 795 that someone has nicely specced that I can pick up for a fraction of the rrp
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