Contador to get ban
Discussion
As the rules stand at the moment he has to get a ban. There is no accidental or intentional use language. If that particular substance is detected then it's illegal. Under the current rules it's black and white.
Looks like the Spanish are hiding behind an admin error so they don't have to apply the rules and hence a ban. If the UCI do ban him, the Spanish authorities can then push the responsibility to the UCI. Nice show of back bone by them.
Whether a ban or not is the right thing for such a small amount detected is then up for discussion and the rules to be updated for the future. This of course could lead to very tightly controlled abuse and monitoring by the team doctors. I'll bet someone is working on the platiciser issue right now. Given the money and pressure and the huge physical demands there is always the incentive to cheat.
On the issue of the accidental ingestion arguement, we all remember Alan Baxter the skier who took an over the counter medicine which contained pseudoephedrine (?sp). He got a ban even though it was accidental as he had not read the contents label carefully enough and the US version was a slightly different formula to the Uk version he was used to taking which did not contain the banned substance.
Way back in the mists of time I scraped up to a decent level athelete and it was made very clear to us what was on the banned substance list, what those substances commonly came in and that ultimately the responsibility lay completely with us as individual competitors for staying on the right side of the law. For Contador to walk away from that responsibility, even if it was accidental, shows his true character.
This whole thing is fishier than a 3 day old Haddock. My personal belief is he is a lying cheating little git and is as guilty as hell. After all the work cycling has done as a sport to try and turn away from the high levels of drug abuse, this affair just sets us back.
Looks like the Spanish are hiding behind an admin error so they don't have to apply the rules and hence a ban. If the UCI do ban him, the Spanish authorities can then push the responsibility to the UCI. Nice show of back bone by them.
Whether a ban or not is the right thing for such a small amount detected is then up for discussion and the rules to be updated for the future. This of course could lead to very tightly controlled abuse and monitoring by the team doctors. I'll bet someone is working on the platiciser issue right now. Given the money and pressure and the huge physical demands there is always the incentive to cheat.
On the issue of the accidental ingestion arguement, we all remember Alan Baxter the skier who took an over the counter medicine which contained pseudoephedrine (?sp). He got a ban even though it was accidental as he had not read the contents label carefully enough and the US version was a slightly different formula to the Uk version he was used to taking which did not contain the banned substance.
Way back in the mists of time I scraped up to a decent level athelete and it was made very clear to us what was on the banned substance list, what those substances commonly came in and that ultimately the responsibility lay completely with us as individual competitors for staying on the right side of the law. For Contador to walk away from that responsibility, even if it was accidental, shows his true character.
This whole thing is fishier than a 3 day old Haddock. My personal belief is he is a lying cheating little git and is as guilty as hell. After all the work cycling has done as a sport to try and turn away from the high levels of drug abuse, this affair just sets us back.
It would certainly be a lot longer, that's for sure 
If they carry on improving detection limits it will get trickier and tricker for atheletes of all sports to make sure they don't get a false positive. Maybe we would update the rules to either set a limit or for infractions under a certian limit say you ahve to have a small number of repeat offences before a ban. Defintiely the rules need to be looked at again.
What's the answer to stamping out drug abuse in our sport. I honestly don't know. Cyclists complete so hard for so long in a season it's surprising any of them aren't doing something ! Do we do lifetime bans for certain substances found over a set threshold? It's a very complicated question that's for sure
Chris
If they carry on improving detection limits it will get trickier and tricker for atheletes of all sports to make sure they don't get a false positive. Maybe we would update the rules to either set a limit or for infractions under a certian limit say you ahve to have a small number of repeat offences before a ban. Defintiely the rules need to be looked at again.
What's the answer to stamping out drug abuse in our sport. I honestly don't know. Cyclists complete so hard for so long in a season it's surprising any of them aren't doing something ! Do we do lifetime bans for certain substances found over a set threshold? It's a very complicated question that's for sure
Chris
dubbs said:
Let them use whatever they like... open field... that way there's no sneaking about 
Would make for some crazy racing too!
I am sure your comment is heavily tongue in cheek, but if not, this would also stop any clean-living self-respecting budding cyclist turning pro if they realised they would have no hope without abusing their body with drugs. So you would end up with a bunch of ill-disciplined zombie junkies with life expectancies of about 30. Doesn't sound much of a spectacle to me.Would make for some crazy racing too!
CVP said:
As the rules stand at the moment he has to get a ban. There is no accidental or intentional use language. If that particular substance is detected then it's illegal. Under the current rules it's black and white.
Looks like the Spanish are hiding behind an admin error so they don't have to apply the rules and hence a ban. If the UCI do ban him, the Spanish authorities can then push the responsibility to the UCI. Nice show of back bone by them.
Whether a ban or not is the right thing for such a small amount detected is then up for discussion and the rules to be updated for the future. This of course could lead to very tightly controlled abuse and monitoring by the team doctors. I'll bet someone is working on the platiciser issue right now. Given the money and pressure and the huge physical demands there is always the incentive to cheat.
On the issue of the accidental ingestion arguement, we all remember Alan Baxter the skier who took an over the counter medicine which contained pseudoephedrine (?sp). He got a ban even though it was accidental as he had not read the contents label carefully enough and the US version was a slightly different formula to the Uk version he was used to taking which did not contain the banned substance.
Way back in the mists of time I scraped up to a decent level athelete and it was made very clear to us what was on the banned substance list, what those substances commonly came in and that ultimately the responsibility lay completely with us as individual competitors for staying on the right side of the law. For Contador to walk away from that responsibility, even if it was accidental, shows his true character.
This whole thing is fishier than a 3 day old Haddock. My personal belief is he is a lying cheating little git and is as guilty as hell. After all the work cycling has done as a sport to try and turn away from the high levels of drug abuse, this affair just sets us back.
Couldn't agree more.Looks like the Spanish are hiding behind an admin error so they don't have to apply the rules and hence a ban. If the UCI do ban him, the Spanish authorities can then push the responsibility to the UCI. Nice show of back bone by them.
Whether a ban or not is the right thing for such a small amount detected is then up for discussion and the rules to be updated for the future. This of course could lead to very tightly controlled abuse and monitoring by the team doctors. I'll bet someone is working on the platiciser issue right now. Given the money and pressure and the huge physical demands there is always the incentive to cheat.
On the issue of the accidental ingestion arguement, we all remember Alan Baxter the skier who took an over the counter medicine which contained pseudoephedrine (?sp). He got a ban even though it was accidental as he had not read the contents label carefully enough and the US version was a slightly different formula to the Uk version he was used to taking which did not contain the banned substance.
Way back in the mists of time I scraped up to a decent level athelete and it was made very clear to us what was on the banned substance list, what those substances commonly came in and that ultimately the responsibility lay completely with us as individual competitors for staying on the right side of the law. For Contador to walk away from that responsibility, even if it was accidental, shows his true character.
This whole thing is fishier than a 3 day old Haddock. My personal belief is he is a lying cheating little git and is as guilty as hell. After all the work cycling has done as a sport to try and turn away from the high levels of drug abuse, this affair just sets us back.
dubbs said:
;)
Don't think ANYONE could seriously condone it.... could they????!?!
No, it would be utter madeness. It'd be like going back to F1 in the '80's. You'd have your "qualifying" state of tune for the prologue. Just how many folks would keel over half way round after having blown up Don't think ANYONE could seriously condone it.... could they????!?!
baxb said:
CVP said:
As the rules stand at the moment he has to get a ban. There is no accidental or intentional use language. If that particular substance is detected then it's illegal. Under the current rules it's black and white.
Looks like the Spanish are hiding behind an admin error so they don't have to apply the rules and hence a ban. If the UCI do ban him, the Spanish authorities can then push the responsibility to the UCI. Nice show of back bone by them.
Whether a ban or not is the right thing for such a small amount detected is then up for discussion and the rules to be updated for the future. This of course could lead to very tightly controlled abuse and monitoring by the team doctors. I'll bet someone is working on the platiciser issue right now. Given the money and pressure and the huge physical demands there is always the incentive to cheat.
On the issue of the accidental ingestion arguement, we all remember Alan Baxter the skier who took an over the counter medicine which contained pseudoephedrine (?sp). He got a ban even though it was accidental as he had not read the contents label carefully enough and the US version was a slightly different formula to the Uk version he was used to taking which did not contain the banned substance.
Way back in the mists of time I scraped up to a decent level athelete and it was made very clear to us what was on the banned substance list, what those substances commonly came in and that ultimately the responsibility lay completely with us as individual competitors for staying on the right side of the law. For Contador to walk away from that responsibility, even if it was accidental, shows his true character.
This whole thing is fishier than a 3 day old Haddock. My personal belief is he is a lying cheating little git and is as guilty as hell. After all the work cycling has done as a sport to try and turn away from the high levels of drug abuse, this affair just sets us back.
Couldn't agree more.Looks like the Spanish are hiding behind an admin error so they don't have to apply the rules and hence a ban. If the UCI do ban him, the Spanish authorities can then push the responsibility to the UCI. Nice show of back bone by them.
Whether a ban or not is the right thing for such a small amount detected is then up for discussion and the rules to be updated for the future. This of course could lead to very tightly controlled abuse and monitoring by the team doctors. I'll bet someone is working on the platiciser issue right now. Given the money and pressure and the huge physical demands there is always the incentive to cheat.
On the issue of the accidental ingestion arguement, we all remember Alan Baxter the skier who took an over the counter medicine which contained pseudoephedrine (?sp). He got a ban even though it was accidental as he had not read the contents label carefully enough and the US version was a slightly different formula to the Uk version he was used to taking which did not contain the banned substance.
Way back in the mists of time I scraped up to a decent level athelete and it was made very clear to us what was on the banned substance list, what those substances commonly came in and that ultimately the responsibility lay completely with us as individual competitors for staying on the right side of the law. For Contador to walk away from that responsibility, even if it was accidental, shows his true character.
This whole thing is fishier than a 3 day old Haddock. My personal belief is he is a lying cheating little git and is as guilty as hell. After all the work cycling has done as a sport to try and turn away from the high levels of drug abuse, this affair just sets us back.
The other thing that worries me is the ongoing investigation into Armstrong. I believe he's clean but you never know. If it turns out he was doping too then some parts of the media are going to gang up on professional cycling in a big way and many potential sponsors could walk away and not take the risk with their corporate reputations. I'm sure the big events would survive but what about the smaller events and smaller teams, who will survive?
Rocksteadyeddie said:
Cycling is the most drug ridden sport in the world
The TDF is the hardest race in cycling.
LA won it 7 times on the bounce.
Go figure...
the harder he trained, the luckier he got? the most tested man in sport still shows up clean...The TDF is the hardest race in cycling.
LA won it 7 times on the bounce.
Go figure...
So if Indurain won it five times on the bounce why doesnt he get this sort of drug-fuelled success s
t thrown at him too?pablo said:
the harder he trained, the luckier he got? the most tested man in sport still shows up clean...
So if Indurain won it five times on the bounce why doesnt he get this sort of drug-fuelled success st thrown at him too?
Because he's Spanish. Duh! So if Indurain won it five times on the bounce why doesnt he get this sort of drug-fuelled success s
t thrown at him too?As we know Spaniards don't do that sort of thing.
Pablo is right, it's not a simple as his winnng record in the TdF. I do believe he is clean. For me the limitations he palced on his other racing, the one race a year goal and then dedication and discipline he put himself and his team through for that one race could all help to explain why he was so successful in that one event.
Remember in the early years he was able to beat folks at will but towards the end of his reign he really was stuggling, the team was shouldering most of the load and quite honestly I think he won the overall race by sheer will power imposed on other professionals. Like other top sports people he doesn't know when to quit and whilst that is a characteristic of a lot of sports people he seems to be right up at the top end of the bell curve in being a self-punishing nutter. Remember the look on his face as he shot out of the rain after going away from Pantani (I think Hautacam or Luz Ardiden). It wasn't a look of joy of breaking away, it was focus and pain, he simply had to win. I think he needed that more than some of the other guys and that kept him competitive for so long.
Remember in the early years he was able to beat folks at will but towards the end of his reign he really was stuggling, the team was shouldering most of the load and quite honestly I think he won the overall race by sheer will power imposed on other professionals. Like other top sports people he doesn't know when to quit and whilst that is a characteristic of a lot of sports people he seems to be right up at the top end of the bell curve in being a self-punishing nutter. Remember the look on his face as he shot out of the rain after going away from Pantani (I think Hautacam or Luz Ardiden). It wasn't a look of joy of breaking away, it was focus and pain, he simply had to win. I think he needed that more than some of the other guys and that kept him competitive for so long.
If it makes you enjoy the sport more to believe that then good for you.
BTW there is no Santa Claus, fairies at the bottom of the garden, or Easter bunny. Sorry.
If you are interested try:
Rough Ride by Paul Kimmage
The death of Marco Pantani (yes the one the clean several stone heavier LA roared away from going uphill) by Matt Rendell
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2011/land...
Or read any of the Ashenden interviews.
BTW there is no Santa Claus, fairies at the bottom of the garden, or Easter bunny. Sorry.
If you are interested try:
Rough Ride by Paul Kimmage
The death of Marco Pantani (yes the one the clean several stone heavier LA roared away from going uphill) by Matt Rendell
http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2011/land...
Or read any of the Ashenden interviews.
We all know Pantani used a cocktail of stuff including cocaine. I'm sure we've all read the Kimmage book, a depressing and condemming read about the sport.
There is no doubt drug abuse is rife in the sport. Is it coming down? Are the riders just getting better at hiding things? The guy leading the federal investigation into Armstrong is no fool, he broke the BALCO affair in athletics so one way or another the truth is likely to come out. I'm just giving he the benefit of the doubt right now.
There is no doubt drug abuse is rife in the sport. Is it coming down? Are the riders just getting better at hiding things? The guy leading the federal investigation into Armstrong is no fool, he broke the BALCO affair in athletics so one way or another the truth is likely to come out. I'm just giving he the benefit of the doubt right now.
No doubt LA was blessed with a physiology that would make him stand out amongst his peers but to win those tours the way he did against well known dopers would suggest that he too was cheating. Modern blood doping could make a donkey into grand national winner, to beat so many of these cheats would not be possible to do cleanly in my opinion. LA might recite how he never failed a test - though I thought he did test positive at some point(?) - however that's a red herring. You can be a burglar without ever being convicted; just don't leave fingerprints and you'll be all right. His training might have been superior but the products and medical techniques he would have had at his disposal would have been superior also. LA isn't a dumb fker like brazen dopers such as Ricco or Vino so its not hard to see how he could have had a stellar career without failing a test.
ker like brazen dopers such as Ricco or Vino so its not hard to see how he could have had a stellar career without failing a test. Armstrong and those around him brought a degree of professionalism to training, equipment, funding, preparation and Tour racecraft that no-one had seen before and that few have equalled since.
It's entirely possible to beat drug users on that basis - performance-enhancers don't make instant supermen.
It's entirely possible to beat drug users on that basis - performance-enhancers don't make instant supermen.
IroningMan said:
Armstrong and those around him brought a degree of professionalism to training, equipment, funding, preparation and Tour racecraft that no-one had seen before and that few have equalled since.
It's entirely possible to beat drug users on that basis - performance-enhancers don't make instant supermen.
I would not disagree with the first para at all however I would define 'preparation' in the same way it is used in Fignon's book We Were Young And Carefree It's entirely possible to beat drug users on that basis - performance-enhancers don't make instant supermen.
IMO professional cyclists are all supermen but performance enhancers can make the average of these supermen into contenders especially in a 3 week tour.
LA's vindictive, vexatious behaviour to those who 'spat in the soup' tells a tale of its own. The guy is like the the church of Scientology in bicycle form.
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