Want a new cheap bike - false economy?
Discussion
oyster said:
There's a thread started almost every hour on PH for 'What cheap car?', so actually I disagree that the rest of PH is like this sub-forum.
Have a re-read of this thread - the suggested costs of the bikes being recommended to the OP are creeping up and up as the thread goes on. Madness.
If you think this sub area is not like the rest of the forum, you obviously spend far too much time in weird and polarized entities that are News & Politics, General Gassing and the Lounge, the other pistonheads sub areas are very good, like this one.Have a re-read of this thread - the suggested costs of the bikes being recommended to the OP are creeping up and up as the thread goes on. Madness.
This pedal powered section is a haven of good substantiated advice, it is not a dedicated bike forum and so you get away from the extremities that you generally find on those.
For what it's worth to the OP, at £200 you could get a bike to see you through a year or two if used regularly and maintained. If you really see this as a proper hobby(addiction) as well as a means of short term transportation then undoubtedly you'll need to spend more.
It's fair to say that there is a fair amount of bike snobbery around, even if it isn't as bad as on bike-specific fora - can't be bothered to dig up the exact thread-- but one student OP asked for a budget XC bike and someone recommended a £3k machine 
and then justified it by saying OP was unreasonable and linking to some irrelevant rubbish. And I'm sorry but anyone who uses the term BSO is just embarassing - I know plenty of people who regularly use very cheap bikes - myself included for short journeys, not to mention http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/poorguyonabike - if things do break it's usually because they've been assembled wrong, not that they're inherently unusable.
That said, a more expensive bike - say £300-£500 - will be more enjoyable to ride, and need components replacing less often. So to the OP, defends if you want to enjoy your commute or not - I'd spend a bit more than is necessary if I could
. Oh, and if your arse is hurting from the bumps and not general saddle discomfort, consider a suspension seatpost and large but not necessarily knobbly tyres - if general discomfort, a new saddle or mtfu.
and then justified it by saying OP was unreasonable and linking to some irrelevant rubbish. And I'm sorry but anyone who uses the term BSO is just embarassing - I know plenty of people who regularly use very cheap bikes - myself included for short journeys, not to mention http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/poorguyonabike - if things do break it's usually because they've been assembled wrong, not that they're inherently unusable.That said, a more expensive bike - say £300-£500 - will be more enjoyable to ride, and need components replacing less often. So to the OP, defends if you want to enjoy your commute or not - I'd spend a bit more than is necessary if I could
. Oh, and if your arse is hurting from the bumps and not general saddle discomfort, consider a suspension seatpost and large but not necessarily knobbly tyres - if general discomfort, a new saddle or mtfu.I am going to be looking for a cheaper bike due to hitting hard times so will release a few hundred quid from my Scott.
I have looked on ebay and there are quite a few with potential from £200 - £300, some have only been used a couple of times. In fact, my bike last year was a £250 ebay special, a Rockhopper that was only used once and when it arrived it was absolutely spotless, i regret getting rid badly as my current bike isnt as nice.
I fancy another rockhopper or a kona maybe.
I have looked on ebay and there are quite a few with potential from £200 - £300, some have only been used a couple of times. In fact, my bike last year was a £250 ebay special, a Rockhopper that was only used once and when it arrived it was absolutely spotless, i regret getting rid badly as my current bike isnt as nice.
I fancy another rockhopper or a kona maybe.
oyster said:
Have a re-read of this thread - the suggested costs of the bikes being recommended to the OP are creeping up and up as the thread goes on. Madness.
That is because the OP's budget is too low to buy anything apart from a BSO, but with your cycling expertise you understand this.Perhaps he could borrow a bike - oh look he has already done that and had to return it. Is your cousins bike available?
curlie467 said:
They compare a bit like chalk and cheese to be honest.
While the v-brakes can be very good, they can also be hindered by a couple of things, if you buckle your wheel slightly then they will rub but the disc brakes would carry on fine as they are bolted to the hub. Also they can lose a bit of bite in the mud etc.
While these issues arent that big a deal, they are just minor points like you asked.
Generally, v-brakes are good, cable discs are better when set up well and hydros are better still, even the budget ones are super reliable and knock socks off v-brakes and cable discs.
I used to have no problem stopping on my v-brakes to be honest but when i went for a set of hydros, well, they were just infinitely better once bedded in!
Really? Thanks for the info.While the v-brakes can be very good, they can also be hindered by a couple of things, if you buckle your wheel slightly then they will rub but the disc brakes would carry on fine as they are bolted to the hub. Also they can lose a bit of bite in the mud etc.
While these issues arent that big a deal, they are just minor points like you asked.
Generally, v-brakes are good, cable discs are better when set up well and hydros are better still, even the budget ones are super reliable and knock socks off v-brakes and cable discs.
I used to have no problem stopping on my v-brakes to be honest but when i went for a set of hydros, well, they were just infinitely better once bedded in!
Worth considering when I buy a mountain bike.
XitUp said:
Really? Thanks for the info.
Worth considering when I buy a mountain bike.
Yes definitely, you wont go wrong with a budget hydro set-up if you are thinking of buying. Plus, and this is the major advantage, if you buy a bike with discs on in the first place, when/if you want to upgrade then everything is in place. People dont realise how much you need to upgrade a v-brake bike to run discs, (suitable wheels/hubs, disc ready frame and forks, disc brake set) it can be very expensive to upgrade and is why people change bikes instead which can be annoying if you particularly like the way that bike rides etc.Worth considering when I buy a mountain bike.
Gooby said:
That is because the OP's budget is too low to buy anything apart from a BSO
maybe it's my student-ness, but just about everyone I know has a bike. Worth less than £200 which is OP's budget. All used regularly for short journeys of about the length the OP described, all over two years old. Did you bother to read the earlier link?
Poor Guy on a Bike said:
The Walmart Schwinn bike performed perfectly. Other than flats, this bike had no mechincal problems except wear and tear. I would have gotten two new tires had I continued from Abilene. I would have also gotten puncture resistant tubes. When I do another trip, it will be on another Schwinn sidewinder. To those who think this bike is a piece of junk, it isn't. It may not be the best bike for fitness and speed, but the bike performed great. The rack, GPS unit and cyclometer worked perfect also.
(quoted in full so I'm not accused of bias). For the record that journey was across america.I'm not arguing more expensive bikes won't be easier to look after - it will - or that they'll be equally fun to ride - they won't. But a cheap bike is viable transport. BSO = bike snob, obviously.
paranoid airbag said:
maybe it's my student-ness, but just about everyone I know has a bike. Worth less than £200 which is OP's budget. All used regularly for short journeys of about the length the OP described, all over two years old. Did you bother to read the earlier link?
I'm not arguing more expensive bikes won't be easier to look after - it will - or that they'll be equally fun to ride - they won't. But a cheap bike is viable transport. BSO = bike snob, obviously.
2 years ago £200 would have baught you far more bike that it will today. 6 months ago £200 would have got a lot more bike for the money. Personally I am very happy to be called a bike snob, I am, but I am also a realist and £200 buys you sod all unless you go to ASDA, Tesco or Halfrauds and get one of the POS with "half price" written on it and congratulations! you have a BSO.Poor Guy on a Bike said:
The Walmart Schwinn bike performed perfectly. Other than flats, this bike had no mechincal problems except wear and tear. I would have gotten two new tires had I continued from Abilene. I would have also gotten puncture resistant tubes. When I do another trip, it will be on another Schwinn sidewinder. To those who think this bike is a piece of junk, it isn't. It may not be the best bike for fitness and speed, but the bike performed great. The rack, GPS unit and cyclometer worked perfect also.
(quoted in full so I'm not accused of bias). For the record that journey was across america.I'm not arguing more expensive bikes won't be easier to look after - it will - or that they'll be equally fun to ride - they won't. But a cheap bike is viable transport. BSO = bike snob, obviously.
I hate to break it to you "poor guy on a bike" did his epic in 2005, just so you know, 6 years ago you could get a lot of bike for £200. If you are going to quote something, at least quote something relavent. as a rough estimate "poor guy on a bike" Schwinn (one of Americas best loved bike manufacturers) would be about £400 - £600 today. If the OP went out with £550 he would end up with a good bike. Conversley, how far do you think poor guy on a bike would get with a £50 bike which is what he would be talking in todays terms.
Perhaps your studies do not cover economics but there are a few threads open at the moment berating the huge rises in prices of bikes and components and the truth of the matter is that you do not get a lot for £200. That is not me being a bike snob (undoubtably I am) that is me having a basic understanding of bikes and costs of bikes.
If you doubt my point of view, here are more
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=17...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by Gooby on Monday 9th May 22:25
It really is worth increasing your budget to £300 as you will get a much, much better bike in terms of quality and equipment.
Carreras at Halfords are a good option as you are sure to have a store nearby to look and try for size and they are good value.
V brakes are more than adequate for the type of riding you describe but a v brake bike would depreciate more and would be very expensive to upgrade to disc brakes at a later date.
A Carrera Vulcan is £260 with Vs or £300 with discs, the Vengence (if available in your size) is £330 and has better forks and hydraulic brakes. The Womens Vulcan disc is only £270 so worth trying for size.
Alternatively you could look for a lightly used 1-2yr old Carrera Kraken or Fury, Specialized Hardrock or GT Aggressor. Look for nice clean sharp edges on the gearing teeth and tyre tread to indicate low usage otherwise you could spend £100+ on renewing tyres, transmission & fork servicing.
Carreras at Halfords are a good option as you are sure to have a store nearby to look and try for size and they are good value.
V brakes are more than adequate for the type of riding you describe but a v brake bike would depreciate more and would be very expensive to upgrade to disc brakes at a later date.
A Carrera Vulcan is £260 with Vs or £300 with discs, the Vengence (if available in your size) is £330 and has better forks and hydraulic brakes. The Womens Vulcan disc is only £270 so worth trying for size.
Alternatively you could look for a lightly used 1-2yr old Carrera Kraken or Fury, Specialized Hardrock or GT Aggressor. Look for nice clean sharp edges on the gearing teeth and tyre tread to indicate low usage otherwise you could spend £100+ on renewing tyres, transmission & fork servicing.
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...
there you are. just don't go full suspension whatever you do. if OP wants a s
t bike to ride around on, let him 
to be fair, it might be worth getting a £100 one and keeping it for a year or 2 and if he likes it, then bin it and buy another. don't bother servicing it at that price.
edit - just seen the £100 (£120 if built) dual susser weighs 17kgs....on a bike with 18gears and V brakes. for the love of god, don't get that one OP. it'd feel horrid.
there you are. just don't go full suspension whatever you do. if OP wants a s
t bike to ride around on, let him to be fair, it might be worth getting a £100 one and keeping it for a year or 2 and if he likes it, then bin it and buy another. don't bother servicing it at that price.edit - just seen the £100 (£120 if built) dual susser weighs 17kgs....on a bike with 18gears and V brakes. for the love of god, don't get that one OP. it'd feel horrid.
Edited by E21_Ross on Tuesday 10th May 08:48
Gooby said:
stuff
fair enough point about the price rises - yes I understand the economic reasons behind them - although I'd say it affects higher end bikes more than lower end bikes, but that's just an intuition. Poor guy on a bike's model didn't cost £200 though - I've just checked and walmart currently retail it for $148, so I'd expect a similar product available in the UK for £200.edit: For illustrative purposes, here is the bike in question:
Edited by paranoid airbag on Tuesday 10th May 11:27
paranoid airbag said:
fair enough point about the price rises - yes I understand the economic reasons behind them - although I'd say it affects higher end bikes more than lower end bikes, but that's just an intuition. Poor guy on a bike's model didn't cost £200 though - I've just checked and walmart currently retail it for $148, so I'd expect a similar product available in the UK for £200.
So suggest something? Something that would promote the owner to want to ride, something that doesnt have the mass of a neutron star, something that will be servicable and will survive between services. A bike without halfords crappy wheels that buckle at the first bump or the halfrauds own special bearings made of a special alloy commonly known as cheese. A bike not a BSO.Walmart is ASDA and I could walk into ASDA with £88 and walk out carrying a BSO in a box.
http://bicycleshapedobject.wordpress.com/
Edited by Gooby on Tuesday 10th May 10:25
Sorry to jump in here... But can these £150-200 bikes with suspension and disc brakes really be 'death traps' and not worth the metal they are made from?
I ask as I'm sort of in the same predicament (needing a cheap bike for £200) and I have also been having a quick look at stuff in Halfords and those 'special offer' Dunlop bikes in chavvy places like Sports World.
My dad is fairly tight when it comes to spending money on recreation such as cycling simply because he isn't a hardcore cyclist, and purchased himself one of those Shockwave full suspension bikes from Halfords about 2 and a half years ago for £180.
He has used it weekly for the full 2.5 years and never had any problems with it. His riding is a mix of bridleway, cyclepath and the odd bit of rough ground.
Now, his cycling style is leisure rather than flat out, but his bike has been well used and quite frankly impressive for the money. Of course it's a little heavy compared to a more expensive bike, but not terribly so.
My friend bought something similar from a sports shop a while ago and likewise, for regular commuting use it's been fine.
So given that most casual cyclists, like the OP, want a bike for a mix of tarmac, urban, cyclepath, gravel road and bridleways, is there honestly an issue with these Chinese specials?
By the way, I'm certainly no expert as I currently ride Carrera Concept with no suspension that's probably about 10-15 years old that someone gave me for free... So the above is just an observation!
I ask as I'm sort of in the same predicament (needing a cheap bike for £200) and I have also been having a quick look at stuff in Halfords and those 'special offer' Dunlop bikes in chavvy places like Sports World.
My dad is fairly tight when it comes to spending money on recreation such as cycling simply because he isn't a hardcore cyclist, and purchased himself one of those Shockwave full suspension bikes from Halfords about 2 and a half years ago for £180.
He has used it weekly for the full 2.5 years and never had any problems with it. His riding is a mix of bridleway, cyclepath and the odd bit of rough ground.
Now, his cycling style is leisure rather than flat out, but his bike has been well used and quite frankly impressive for the money. Of course it's a little heavy compared to a more expensive bike, but not terribly so.
My friend bought something similar from a sports shop a while ago and likewise, for regular commuting use it's been fine.
So given that most casual cyclists, like the OP, want a bike for a mix of tarmac, urban, cyclepath, gravel road and bridleways, is there honestly an issue with these Chinese specials?
By the way, I'm certainly no expert as I currently ride Carrera Concept with no suspension that's probably about 10-15 years old that someone gave me for free... So the above is just an observation!
NinjaPower said:
Sorry to jump in here... But can these £150-200 bikes with suspension and disc brakes really be 'death traps' and not worth the metal they are made from?
I ask as I'm sort of in the same predicament (needing a cheap bike for £200) and I have also been having a quick look at stuff in Halfords and those 'special offer' Dunlop bikes in chavvy places like Sports World.
My dad is fairly tight when it comes to spending money on recreation such as cycling simply because he isn't a hardcore cyclist, and purchased himself one of those Shockwave full suspension bikes from Halfords about 2 and a half years ago for £180.
He has used it weekly for the full 2.5 years and never had any problems with it. His riding is a mix of bridleway, cyclepath and the odd bit of rough ground.
Now, his cycling style is leisure rather than flat out, but his bike has been well used and quite frankly impressive for the money. Of course it's a little heavy compared to a more expensive bike, but not terribly so.
My friend bought something similar from a sports shop a while ago and likewise, for regular commuting use it's been fine.
So given that most casual cyclists, like the OP, want a bike for a mix of tarmac, urban, cyclepath, gravel road and bridleways, is there honestly an issue with these Chinese specials?
By the way, I'm certainly no expert as I currently ride Carrera Concept with no suspension that's probably about 10-15 years old that someone gave me for free... So the above is just an observation!
I'm guessing from your username that you understand (motor)bikes, so the best way I can think of illustrating it is this.I ask as I'm sort of in the same predicament (needing a cheap bike for £200) and I have also been having a quick look at stuff in Halfords and those 'special offer' Dunlop bikes in chavvy places like Sports World.
My dad is fairly tight when it comes to spending money on recreation such as cycling simply because he isn't a hardcore cyclist, and purchased himself one of those Shockwave full suspension bikes from Halfords about 2 and a half years ago for £180.
He has used it weekly for the full 2.5 years and never had any problems with it. His riding is a mix of bridleway, cyclepath and the odd bit of rough ground.
Now, his cycling style is leisure rather than flat out, but his bike has been well used and quite frankly impressive for the money. Of course it's a little heavy compared to a more expensive bike, but not terribly so.
My friend bought something similar from a sports shop a while ago and likewise, for regular commuting use it's been fine.
So given that most casual cyclists, like the OP, want a bike for a mix of tarmac, urban, cyclepath, gravel road and bridleways, is there honestly an issue with these Chinese specials?
By the way, I'm certainly no expert as I currently ride Carrera Concept with no suspension that's probably about 10-15 years old that someone gave me for free... So the above is just an observation!
If I was in the market for a 125 to commute too and from work on, which of the following would you recommend and why:
A) Brand new Honda CG125 for ~£2k
B) Brand new Sanya SY125 for ~£1k
C) Second hand Honda CG125 for ~£1k
Mr Will said:
Bike Shaped Object - i.e. Looks like a bike but not suitable for being used as one.
and there's my point - I'm confused, apparently all the things round here that are used as bikes daily, aren't. @Gooby, I'd still suggest a secondhand hybrid, like most others here I suspect - I'm not in any way denying a more expensive bike is better, or even that it isn't worth the extra money - just that calling anything worth less than £200 not usable as a bike, when clearly they are usable, as they're used, is silly. I'd also suggest looking at a suspension seatpost if the OP's arse is uncomfortable due to bumps, as mentioned earlier, the other option being mtfu.
That said, over short journeys, there's a lot to be said for being free from theft worries, and a smaller advantage for a quality bike.
paranoid airbag said:
and there's my point - I'm confused, apparently all the things round here that are used as bikes daily, aren't.
Really? Around here there are few BSO's being ridden anywhere except around the park on a sunny weekend; lots of older but functional bikes being used daily but very few £100 supermarket specials. paranoid airbag said:
Mr Will said:
Bike Shaped Object - i.e. Looks like a bike but not suitable for being used as one.
and there's my point - I'm confused, apparently all the things round here that are used as bikes daily, aren't. @Gooby, I'd still suggest a secondhand hybrid, like most others here I suspect - I'm not in any way denying a more expensive bike is better, or even that it isn't worth the extra money - just that calling anything worth less than £200 not usable as a bike, when clearly they are usable, as they're used, is silly. I'd also suggest looking at a suspension seatpost if the OP's arse is uncomfortable due to bumps, as mentioned earlier, the other option being mtfu.
That said, over short journeys, there's a lot to be said for being free from theft worries, and a smaller advantage for a quality bike.
king nasty to ride....you can ride with them. it'll probably be cheaper to buy a god awful gel saddle than buy a suspension seat post if he's on a budget though. a friend of mine had an old emmelle dual suspension bike, it weight the moon but he used it. whilst 2nd hand can look good, if it's a couple of years old, cassette, brake pads, gear cables etc might need replacing and could get expensive. if i were in OP position, i'd buy a brand new bike for £150-200 with front forks only. it'll come with a warranty and should last a few years easily with gentle riding.i had an old carrera kraken before i got my Orange hardtail (quite a step up
) and it was find until i took it proper mountain biking in north wales and scotland...when it fell to bits. casual riding though it was fine. coed y brenin killed it though and sent it to the skip.you get what you pay for, i've done more mountain biking on the orange hard tail and it's still fine, but then the front forks alone cost more than what the old bike did....
if OP is doing easy riding and the roughest he's going to do is go off kerbs then a cheap bike will be fine.
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