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peterwalters
212 posts
81 months
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Like that idea
6.50 - 7.99 is a much better bracket too IMO
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MartynJones
20 posts
15 months
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I've been biting my tongue on this but I've finally snapped :-)
I've got to say this proposal is going exactly where I thought it would...
Proposal was 6.0 and slower. It hasn't taken too long for people to start proposing that the faster end of the "bracket" (which it isn't) comes closer to the quickest that their cars might be able to run... For example, 7.0 would count out quite a few Super Pro cars - Steve J, Nick Good, John Bradshaw and Pat Talbot just to give a few examples.
Juggling class rules to benefit a selection of vehicles is exactly why disliked the old comp classes. And why I have loved bracket racing since it started. Despite having spent several Small Fortunes on my car, I don't see why that should guarantee me a win. To win in the brackets, particularly in a quick car, takes real skill and "the smarts"... Witness Steve Johnson's win at one of Brian Burrow's Big Bracket races at AP... 7 round wins on the day in the quickest car on the track - and despite running against Super Comp and Super Gas cars with their throttle stops etc.
And I'm also speaking as someone with no real interest, despite having the car that should have p***ed the original proposal - I have absolutely no intention of racing at Shakespeare County as long as it's run the way it is (anyone wants to know why, ask me at the Pod this weekend).
Also, just because most people will have forgotten, it was only the adoption of the NHRA rulebook that stopped Robin Read from running on Nitro in Super Pro - which he had done safely and reliably for a few years.
And, whilst I'm still on my soapbox - Competition Eliminator might seem to be a good class in the US, but it's even more difficult for the unintitiated to understand and, from the examples of friends who have run both competitively in the states, Comp Elim is more expensive than Top Alcohol when it's done properly.
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Turbobird1
337 posts
18 months
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MartynJones said: Comp Elim is more expensive than Top Alcohol when it's done properly. thats very true and most people who go on about it have no idea what it can cost to be competitive in that class
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Rat_Fink_67
1,294 posts
76 months
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Anyone seen the shoe whitener??
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Turbobird1
337 posts
18 months
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MartynJones said: I've been biting my tongue on this but I've finally snapped :-)
I've got to say this proposal is going exactly where I thought it would...
Proposal was 6.0 and slower. It hasn't taken too long for people to start proposing that the faster end of the "bracket" (which it isn't) comes closer to the quickest that their cars might be able to run... For example, 7.0 would count out quite a few Super Pro cars - Steve J, Nick Good, John Bradshaw and Pat Talbot just to give a few examples.
Juggling class rules to benefit a selection of vehicles is exactly why disliked the old comp classes. And why I have loved bracket racing since it started. Despite having spent several Small Fortunes on my car, I don't see why that should guarantee me a win. To win in the brackets, particularly in a quick car, takes real skill and "the smarts"... Witness Steve Johnson's win at one of Brian Burrow's Big Bracket races at AP... 7 round wins on the day in the quickest car on the track - and despite running against Super Comp and Super Gas cars with their throttle stops etc.
on the nitro thing
Robin Reed came from a time and place when drag racers were engineers and had some understanding of what they were playing with
todays racers do not, as stated nitro is dangerous and not to be played with
And I'm also speaking as someone with no real interest, despite having the car that should have p***ed the original proposal - I have absolutely no intention of racing at Shakespeare County as long as it's run the way it is (anyone wants to know why, ask me at the Pod this weekend).
Also, just because most people will have forgotten, it was only the adoption of the NHRA rulebook that stopped Robin Read from running on Nitro in Super Pro - which he had done safely and reliably for a few years.
And, whilst I'm still on my soapbox - Competition Eliminator might seem to be a good class in the US, but it's even more difficult for the unintitiated to understand and, from the examples of friends who have run both competitively in the states, Comp Elim is more expensive than Top Alcohol when it's done properly. firstly why would 7.0 (which was just a personal suggestion from someone who also has no interest) stop some super pro cars as examples given ? most super gas/super comp can run under the cut off if they want, its still heads up just with a brake light element the same as it would if it was 6.0. its not about adjusting to suit cars i personaly hate that no mater as you say what you spend it should never guarentee a win, ok at 6.0 it would allow the named cars to run flat out do you want a class for those cars only then ? how long would a 6.7 car for instance stay in the class when they were ass whipped at every round by a 6.0 car all of the mentioned cars have cost a small or large fortune, I have no desire to suggest any cut off to suit specific cars, but to keep some affordability, my belief is you should choose a class your comfortable to race in and build a combo to suit never build a car that you like then try to create a class for that car so it will be competitive, that is wrong, if you choose a heads up class be very prepared to bang heads with seriously fast cars, the other option is to have a real heads up no cut off class for the cars concerned, or (and i use this for an example to make a point only) a class for screw blown hemi dragsters with lencodrives or purple coloured blown altereds with 3 speeds,
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MartynJones
20 posts
15 months
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Graham
I'm perfectly happy with Super Pro. I accept that my car wont be as consistent as others, and thus less likely to win. It's also obvious to me that we won't be able to turn the car around quickly enough to make the next round at some meetings.
Like most of the quicker cars in Super Pro, I'm trying to run as fast as I can. Hopefully, I'll break out of the bracket... But whilst I'm doing that, a win is a win since it's as level a playing ground as you can get.
I've never asked for a class just to suit me and wouldn't want to. I'm very proud of my championship wins in Super Pro.
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BennettRacing
728 posts
81 months
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Turbobird1 said: all of the mentioned cars have cost a small or large fortune, I have no desire to suggest any cut off to suit specific cars, but to keep some affordability,
Exactly my point, to keep things sensible. Raising it to a 7.0 pretty much excludes one of our cars so no one please suggest that I am trying to sway it to my car. My old mans car has run a 6.7 half pass so I think 7.0 would be easy, that said isn't that sensible??? In the current state most peoples wallets are in, wouldn't a cut off of 7.0 ish be a good thing? Then when all/most of the class are running very near or breaking out then lower it to say 6.90 and so on each year, do it properly with an AGM each year and vote things in or out.
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dorrisdormouse
64 posts
21 months
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In a heads up class its always going to be difficult (or impossible) to please everyone. Id guess to really be competitive you need to be able to run within at least 0.5-1 of a second of the quickest a car in class can go (taken that the quicker car may not be as consistant)? So if you made it a 6.0 index you could maybe just about get away with running that class if you can run 7.0 or quicker? I guess the thing to do then is to figure out how many cars can run 6.0-7.0 and would want to run in the class. If that number is satisfactory then cool, there you have your bracket. If not then you could try 6.5-7.5 and see if that gets a satisfactory number. Could that be a fair way of working this out?
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BennettRacing
728 posts
81 months
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dorrisdormouse said: In a heads up class its always going to be difficult (or impossible) to please everyone. Id guess to really be competitive you need to be able to run within at least 0.5-1 of a second of the quickest a car in class can go (taken that the quicker car may not be as consistant)? So if you made it a 6.0 index you could maybe just about get away with running that class if you can run 7.0 or quicker? I guess the thing to do then is to figure out how many cars can run 6.0-7.0 and would want to run in the class. If that number is satisfactory then cool, there you have your bracket. If not then you could try 6.5-7.5 and see if that gets a satisfactory number. Could that be a fair way of working this out? I just think turn up, have a race and go home. See how one event goes and build from there.
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MotorPsycho
1,090 posts
81 months
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Turbobird1 said: firstly why would 7.0 (which was just a personal suggestion from someone who also has no interest) stop some super pro cars as examples given ?
most super gas/super comp can run under the cut off if they want, its still heads up just with a brake light element the same as it would if it was 6.0.
its not about adjusting to suit cars i personaly hate that no mater as you say what you spend it should never guarentee a win, ok at 6.0 it would allow the named cars to run flat out do you want a class for those cars only then ? how long would a 6.7 car for instance stay in the class when they were ass whipped at every round by a 6.0 car
all of the mentioned cars have cost a small or large fortune, I have no desire to suggest any cut off to suit specific cars, but to keep some affordability,
my belief is you should choose a class your comfortable to race in and build a combo to suit never build a car that you like then try to create a class for that car so it will be competitive, that is wrong, if you choose a heads up class be very prepared to bang heads with seriously fast cars,
the other option is to have a real heads up no cut off class for the cars concerned, or (and i use this for an example to make a point only) a class for screw blown hemi dragsters with lencodrives or purple coloured blown altereds with 3 speeds, Where do I sign up  I'm dedicated to the NFAA so my viewpoints here aren't tailoring to any specific car, just thinking logically how to keep it competative, affordable and with decent numbers.
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63vette
42 posts
21 months
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BennettRacing said: I just think turn up, have a race and go home. See how one event goes and build from there. Sounds like a good plan to me
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dorrisdormouse
64 posts
21 months
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Ok, this might be a stupid idea (flame away lol). How about having several fixed class indexes, say 6.0, 6.5, 7.0, 7.5, 8.0. Time in qualifying decides what class you are in, in eliminations a staggered tree is used based off your class index. Any run below 6.0 is disqualified, other than that no breakouts but if you go faster than your class index then you get shifted up to the appropriate class. Got to be a good reason why that wont work and im being a bit thick and not seeing it. I guess you could have 6.0 cars qualifying with 8.0's and then slowly going quicker during eliminations...
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MotorPsycho
1,090 posts
81 months
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1) Wouldn't be heads up
2) Sandbagging. Run a 6.0 car, in quali click it off early to run a 7.5, first round on a 7.5 index run a bit further 7.1, next round on a 7.0 go further and run a mid 6 etc etc.
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dorrisdormouse
64 posts
21 months
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Yep, fair enough. Guess anyone who cant run quicker than a 7.0 may as well stay in super pro then. Still sounds like a great class to watch though.
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trackday addict
499 posts
79 months
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lol - and thats why after another 4 pages nothing changes  I'll be really clear about my reasonoing against running in s pro It is not a great class to invite sponsors to watch or for them to understand - thats it pure & simple. Let's be honest all of us just want to drive regardless of whatever class we end up in For me Comp Elim is dead simple once your index is worked out to explain to sponsors or newbies - you might get a headstart of have to give one - first past the line wins - dead easy to understand from a neutral perspective Now try this Sorry yes i know we won but we actually went to quickly - yehh right Mr Sponsor please come again or sorry Mr Sponsor you didnt get to see car run at all as we couldnt turn it around in 20 mins To many people think with their drivers head on rather than whats going to get money into the sport in my opinion Anyway - to hell with it - bored of seeing this s-it time & again - we will find the racing !
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BennettRacing
728 posts
81 months
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trackday addict said: lol - and thats why after another 4 pages nothing changes I'll be really clear about my reasonoing against running in s pro It is not a great class to invite sponsors to watch or for them to understand - thats it pure & simple. Let's be honest all of us just want to drive regardless of whatever class we end up in For me Comp Elim is dead simple once your index is worked out to explain to sponsors or newbies - you might get a headstart of have to give one - first past the line wins - dead easy to understand from a neutral perspective Now try this Sorry yes i know we won but we actually went to quickly - yehh right Mr Sponsor please come again or sorry Mr Sponsor you didnt get to see car run at all as we couldnt turn it around in 20 mins To many people think with their drivers head on rather than whats going to get money into the sport in my opinion Anyway - to hell with it - bored of seeing this s-it time & again - we will find the racing ! This is still heads up mate, which by the sound of it is what suits you and the car. No point at all in my eyes going in with a 6.0 index it will kill the class before it begins as most have no chance so why enter... The class to work needs to build slowly, gain numbers then have votes to decide things. I'd happily race you mate, LOVE the turbo popping on the 2 step on the line, you got a passenger seat ;-) Now picture 16+ cars, altereds, slingshots, dragsters, door cars, all heads up, makes for some good racing. Get some innovation and brains BACK into UK racing.
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trackday addict
499 posts
79 months
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Hi mate - I'm all for this idea as i mentioned at the start. Was just getting frustrated at the negatives and the typical pages t that followed.
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Burndown
652 posts
36 months
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When organising something like this the worst thing you can say is "I am open to ideas" however democratic it sounds.
Set the rules as the organiser, give it a go, and then adjust to suit the feedback from those who participated for future events.
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FUELFUNNY
1 posts
81 months
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Willing to give it a go, one less thing to get wrong removing a dial in, all down to tuning. 6.50 or 7.0 sounds better for us, now do we get pro 1 for being the first to sign up.
Seriously i do think it could be a good class to attract future sponsors, easy to describe first over the stripe wins, now who are the other five???
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Muddytalker
Original Poster
32 posts
81 months
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Following last month’s proposal to run an Open Pro Class at APIRA’s Open Sport Nationals August Bank Holiday club officials have decided to rubber stamp the proposal with at least 9 racers and teams showing a great deal of interest in the class.
“We have decided to run the class at a reduced index between 6.50 to 8.00 seconds,” says APIRA’s Glenn Stockton. “We need a minimum of 6 entries to make the class worthwhile. If we get more then we’re moving in the right direction. If we don’t at least racers will know we’ve tried.”
Although there was a great deal of scepticism when the proposal was first announced that it would take cars and teams away from the Super Pro class this was never the intention but to give racers who run door cars, dragsters and altereds conforming to the MSA Drag Race Rulebook GSRs, carry a tag and logbook as well as the usual safety standards, that would not necessarily run in the class championship series a place to run heads with on a pro tree thus giving a spectacle for spectators to come and watch.
If this trial event in August is a success then the Open Pro class may well become an APIRA Championship in 2013 with further thought to adding the class into the UK National Championship in 2013/14.
Entry forms are now available to download from the Shakespeare County Raceway web site with the usual Sportsman entry fees and prize as per the APIRA/SPRC schedule. Competition race numbers will be no different other than an ‘OP’ prefix will apply. Further information about the class can be sought by calling Glenn Stockton on 01159 817701 or e-mail glennstockton@123thedowns.fsnet.co.uk.
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