NitrolympX Hockenheim 2012
Discussion
T.S.R. said:
Just got back from Hockenheim had a cool time getting there but with reference to the track very disappoint ,all I can say a long way to go for 2 burn outs
But on the other hand all the years I have been in drag racing I have never seen the track crew work so hard
Also sorry to here about the boys with the black currant vw bug a very nice car that will be missed by a lot of people
Why what happened to the bug?But on the other hand all the years I have been in drag racing I have never seen the track crew work so hard
Also sorry to here about the boys with the black currant vw bug a very nice car that will be missed by a lot of people
Probably the most bizarre event I've ever been to. Never have i seen cars with 10 second dial ins move a foot sideways and then smoke the tyres. For pro cars it was just pointless really, there were guys walking on the track in flip flops! The crew indeed worked very hard but that track has gone beyond what you can tune for, it was just a lottery. Definitely a resurfacing job needed.
Big go'75 said:
http://www.dragracingonline.com/agent1320/2012/132...
Hopefully if I have done the link correctly, you will see the signed statement by the top fuel drivers next to the organisers statement. Compare and contrast. Interesting comments about the size of the crowd as well. Good picture of Urs literally 'blazing' the slicks!
I think these comments from dragracingonline.com has said it all. This will be broadcast to the rest of the drag racing World as well as the rest of motorsport. Untold damage has been done to the sport in Europe. What chance do we now have Hopefully if I have done the link correctly, you will see the signed statement by the top fuel drivers next to the organisers statement. Compare and contrast. Interesting comments about the size of the crowd as well. Good picture of Urs literally 'blazing' the slicks!
convincing sponsors and new blood that Drag Racing is any longer a viable proposition
Sbrad said:
I think these comments from dragracingonline.com has said it all. This will be broadcast to the rest of the drag racing World as well as the rest of motorsport. Untold damage has been done to the sport in Europe. What chance do we now have
convincing sponsors and new blood that Drag Racing is any longer a viable proposition
We need to look forward and make sure Tierp and Santa Pod put on excellent FIA Championship rounds to finish the season. This is a speed bump not a road closure.convincing sponsors and new blood that Drag Racing is any longer a viable proposition
Mark13 said:
We need to look forward and make sure Tierp and Santa Pod put on excellent FIA Championship rounds to finish the season. This is a speed bump not a road closure.
i think a pot hole may be more appropriate in this situationcrying shame about the beetle though. glad sam is ok, lets hope the car can be rebuilt as it was great fun to watch
Sbrad said:
I think these comments from dragracingonline.com has said it all. This will be broadcast to the rest of the drag racing World as well as the rest of motorsport. Untold damage has been done to the sport in Europe. What chance do we now have
convincing sponsors and new blood that Drag Racing is any longer a viable proposition
I am not sure that there will be that much damage done to the sport by this. Sponsors for years have had to put up with Elimination and Qualifying day's being rained off and it's not like something on this scale has happened before.convincing sponsors and new blood that Drag Racing is any longer a viable proposition
European Drag racing will continue with racers now prioritising the Santa Pod and Tierp rounds rather than sitting any of them out. This season so far we have had some criticism of Santa Pod (safety), Tierp (delay in payment of prize money), Alastaro(track) and now Hockenheim (dangerous track).
I am fairly sure that Hockenheim will continue, maybe not as an FIA round though. This could be a good opportunity to take the championship back to 5 rounds without having to admit that pushing the season up to 6 events was a mistake in the current economic climate.
Jerry Lackey said to me sunday night as we were packing, that FIA will not come to Hockenheim as long as he lives. I hope that when all the dust settels,that he will change his mind. They need a race down there. I does not have to be on Hockenheim. There was a rumor in the pits, that there will be a track like Tierp not far from Hockenheim. If that is a fact, let´s see if Hockenheim will survive, they don´t make any money on the F1.
At the start of the event there was already talk that this would be it's last as an FIA round for while anyway. Good luck trying to convince any "big cars" to come back if there isn't even championship points at stake. It's all such a shame because the weather was perfect and the crowds were their usual enthusiastic selves.
Rat_Fink_67 said:
At the start of the event there was already talk that this would be it's last as an FIA round for while anyway. Good luck trying to convince any "big cars" to come back if there isn't even championship points at stake. It's all such a shame because the weather was perfect and the crowds were their usual enthusiastic selves.
If the price is right "big cars" will do demo's.That was my 1st visit to Hockenhiem, and it certainly opened my eyes to a different kind of staff i am used to
The Track was clearly a joke, there is abosolutey no communication between top and bottom end staff, clearly shown by the amount of near misses on the track with racers being sent down when the track was no clear.
Im glad im not of a nervous disposition, cause watching from the stands on sat after we were bumped, it was just like waiting for an accident.
To think that they could even consider racers going heads up in those conditions, and play who's got the biggest balls to keep there foot in.
TMD where forced to run cause certain racers (check out the nationalitys of those who said Aye!) But to take a quote from the Lucas Oil Programme recorded over the weekend, it was a peddle fest on a track with conditions like from the 60's, even funnier that the pits had more traction than the start line too.
Although all said and done, we had a great weekend, unfortunatley the car was damaged and i hope they can sort this out, as this will have a very bad effect on future racers turning up. Even heard some of the more well well know and favorite names racers turning there back on the FIA Tour and going to USA, as there fed up of being treated like amatuers.
The Track was clearly a joke, there is abosolutey no communication between top and bottom end staff, clearly shown by the amount of near misses on the track with racers being sent down when the track was no clear.
Im glad im not of a nervous disposition, cause watching from the stands on sat after we were bumped, it was just like waiting for an accident.
To think that they could even consider racers going heads up in those conditions, and play who's got the biggest balls to keep there foot in.
TMD where forced to run cause certain racers (check out the nationalitys of those who said Aye!) But to take a quote from the Lucas Oil Programme recorded over the weekend, it was a peddle fest on a track with conditions like from the 60's, even funnier that the pits had more traction than the start line too.
Although all said and done, we had a great weekend, unfortunatley the car was damaged and i hope they can sort this out, as this will have a very bad effect on future racers turning up. Even heard some of the more well well know and favorite names racers turning there back on the FIA Tour and going to USA, as there fed up of being treated like amatuers.
Great sum-up from Anita Makela today on Eurodragster.com
I think the time has come to ask ourselves what we want and expect from running as an FIA series (all classes). Running under the FIA banner does not seem to give us better conditions, more legitimacy to potential sponsors, or better management of the sport. Where is our Charlie Whiting...? No-one seemed to know who should ultimately be taking the decision on the safety of running on the track and the cancellation of the FIA classes. In the end, the pro class drivers got together and decided to take control of that decision themselves, and were made to pay for that in several ways. Really, that decision should have come from the top. But, we suffer from the problem that those at the top often have a vested financial interest in having things proceed despite any issues. It's pretty ridiculous that top fuel racers must send their rear wing main element to the USA each year for test and SFI tagging (and many other such items/costs), yet the safety and standards of the tracks that we race on is not scrutinized and controlled in the same manner.
Also, we are still influenced somewhat by the history of drag racing in Europe. Because it is very much a grass-roots sport still, and has its roots in match racing and show, we struggle to move forward into a more professional sport oriented system of championships, standards, points and management. For example, the top fuel drivers wanted to try and help the promoters to still provide a show for the fans, to make some passes and give them something for their support. Can you imagine that happening in other FIA race series? Plus, there have been reports of racers calling other racers "pussy" during the drivers meeting, for not feeling that the track was safe to run on. More worrying, similar accusation has been leveled at one of the main organizers of the event. We cannot call ourselves a professional sport if behavior like this is tolerated and not penalized. Everyone was entitled to their view on the safety of the track and whether they wanted to run or not, but in a professional racing series conduct is important and the majority decision should rule. There are plenty other events for those who are only interested in their own ends, whether that be financial or otherwise.
It's also very difficult to get agreement between all the drivers and owners, because there are so many different views and reasons from each one. It took many meetings between the top fuel class to come to agreement, but I think the fact that in the end agreement was reached unanimously was a great thing. Lastly, I feel that the financial system for the racers is structured in such a way that it puts pressure on them to run to ensure they re-coup as much of their costs as possible, even when they may not feel it is safe to do so. Even more pressure exists when it's a home race and a team has large hospitality and potential sponsors along to try and impress.
I think the time has come to ask ourselves what we want and expect from running as an FIA series (all classes). Running under the FIA banner does not seem to give us better conditions, more legitimacy to potential sponsors, or better management of the sport. Where is our Charlie Whiting...? No-one seemed to know who should ultimately be taking the decision on the safety of running on the track and the cancellation of the FIA classes. In the end, the pro class drivers got together and decided to take control of that decision themselves, and were made to pay for that in several ways. Really, that decision should have come from the top. But, we suffer from the problem that those at the top often have a vested financial interest in having things proceed despite any issues. It's pretty ridiculous that top fuel racers must send their rear wing main element to the USA each year for test and SFI tagging (and many other such items/costs), yet the safety and standards of the tracks that we race on is not scrutinized and controlled in the same manner.
Also, we are still influenced somewhat by the history of drag racing in Europe. Because it is very much a grass-roots sport still, and has its roots in match racing and show, we struggle to move forward into a more professional sport oriented system of championships, standards, points and management. For example, the top fuel drivers wanted to try and help the promoters to still provide a show for the fans, to make some passes and give them something for their support. Can you imagine that happening in other FIA race series? Plus, there have been reports of racers calling other racers "pussy" during the drivers meeting, for not feeling that the track was safe to run on. More worrying, similar accusation has been leveled at one of the main organizers of the event. We cannot call ourselves a professional sport if behavior like this is tolerated and not penalized. Everyone was entitled to their view on the safety of the track and whether they wanted to run or not, but in a professional racing series conduct is important and the majority decision should rule. There are plenty other events for those who are only interested in their own ends, whether that be financial or otherwise.
It's also very difficult to get agreement between all the drivers and owners, because there are so many different views and reasons from each one. It took many meetings between the top fuel class to come to agreement, but I think the fact that in the end agreement was reached unanimously was a great thing. Lastly, I feel that the financial system for the racers is structured in such a way that it puts pressure on them to run to ensure they re-coup as much of their costs as possible, even when they may not feel it is safe to do so. Even more pressure exists when it's a home race and a team has large hospitality and potential sponsors along to try and impress.
trackday addict said:
To be honest I'm still livid !
Cost us thousands to make the trip and might as well have thrown the cash in the channel.
Quite.Cost us thousands to make the trip and might as well have thrown the cash in the channel.
For top fuel, the per-run payout amount would only cover the running costs of that run IF you hurt nothing. And on a track like that was, it's almost impossible not to. Then there are the travel costs, food, electric power, etc etc.
There were many thousands of paying spectators at the event, the racers could not race due to the track provided by the organizers, and yet it will be the racers that take the financial penalties because they didn't run...
RobKarloff said:
Great sum-up from Anita Makela today on Eurodragster.com
I think the time has come to ask ourselves what we want and expect from running as an FIA series (all classes). Running under the FIA banner does not seem to give us better conditions, more legitimacy to potential sponsors, or better management of the sport. Where is our Charlie Whiting...? No-one seemed to know who should ultimately be taking the decision on the safety of running on the track and the cancellation of the FIA classes. In the end, the pro class drivers got together and decided to take control of that decision themselves, and were made to pay for that in several ways. Really, that decision should have come from the top. But, we suffer from the problem that those at the top often have a vested financial interest in having things proceed despite any issues. It's pretty ridiculous that top fuel racers must send their rear wing main element to the USA each year for test and SFI tagging (and many other such items/costs), yet the safety and standards of the tracks that we race on is not scrutinized and controlled in the same manner.
Also, we are still influenced somewhat by the history of drag racing in Europe. Because it is very much a grass-roots sport still, and has its roots in match racing and show, we struggle to move forward into a more professional sport oriented system of championships, standards, points and management. For example, the top fuel drivers wanted to try and help the promoters to still provide a show for the fans, to make some passes and give them something for their support. Can you imagine that happening in other FIA race series? Plus, there have been reports of racers calling other racers "pussy" during the drivers meeting, for not feeling that the track was safe to run on. More worrying, similar accusation has been leveled at one of the main organizers of the event. We cannot call ourselves a professional sport if behavior like this is tolerated and not penalized. Everyone was entitled to their view on the safety of the track and whether they wanted to run or not, but in a professional racing series conduct is important and the majority decision should rule. There are plenty other events for those who are only interested in their own ends, whether that be financial or otherwise.
It's also very difficult to get agreement between all the drivers and owners, because there are so many different views and reasons from each one. It took many meetings between the top fuel class to come to agreement, but I think the fact that in the end agreement was reached unanimously was a great thing. Lastly, I feel that the financial system for the racers is structured in such a way that it puts pressure on them to run to ensure they re-coup as much of their costs as possible, even when they may not feel it is safe to do so. Even more pressure exists when it's a home race and a team has large hospitality and potential sponsors along to try and impress.
I would have thought by now there would have been some sort of responce from the governing body explaining why some of these decisions were made, bearing in mind the saftey aspect. If it was F1 there would have been an investigation announcement by now???I think the time has come to ask ourselves what we want and expect from running as an FIA series (all classes). Running under the FIA banner does not seem to give us better conditions, more legitimacy to potential sponsors, or better management of the sport. Where is our Charlie Whiting...? No-one seemed to know who should ultimately be taking the decision on the safety of running on the track and the cancellation of the FIA classes. In the end, the pro class drivers got together and decided to take control of that decision themselves, and were made to pay for that in several ways. Really, that decision should have come from the top. But, we suffer from the problem that those at the top often have a vested financial interest in having things proceed despite any issues. It's pretty ridiculous that top fuel racers must send their rear wing main element to the USA each year for test and SFI tagging (and many other such items/costs), yet the safety and standards of the tracks that we race on is not scrutinized and controlled in the same manner.
Also, we are still influenced somewhat by the history of drag racing in Europe. Because it is very much a grass-roots sport still, and has its roots in match racing and show, we struggle to move forward into a more professional sport oriented system of championships, standards, points and management. For example, the top fuel drivers wanted to try and help the promoters to still provide a show for the fans, to make some passes and give them something for their support. Can you imagine that happening in other FIA race series? Plus, there have been reports of racers calling other racers "pussy" during the drivers meeting, for not feeling that the track was safe to run on. More worrying, similar accusation has been leveled at one of the main organizers of the event. We cannot call ourselves a professional sport if behavior like this is tolerated and not penalized. Everyone was entitled to their view on the safety of the track and whether they wanted to run or not, but in a professional racing series conduct is important and the majority decision should rule. There are plenty other events for those who are only interested in their own ends, whether that be financial or otherwise.
It's also very difficult to get agreement between all the drivers and owners, because there are so many different views and reasons from each one. It took many meetings between the top fuel class to come to agreement, but I think the fact that in the end agreement was reached unanimously was a great thing. Lastly, I feel that the financial system for the racers is structured in such a way that it puts pressure on them to run to ensure they re-coup as much of their costs as possible, even when they may not feel it is safe to do so. Even more pressure exists when it's a home race and a team has large hospitality and potential sponsors along to try and impress.
F1 would not allow their drivers to run over the end of the drag strip in case they picked up the surface on their tyres. F1 cars run off line on numerous occasions during a race picking up all sorts of rubbish, they pit stop, change tyres and carry on, or not on some occasions. So who made the decision to power wash and distroy, because that's what the've done, the complete quarter mile drag strip without thinking or finding out about the consequence their actions might have on life and limb. Again it's because the governing body does not understand drag racing or even want to, and it's been that way since 1966.
The whole drag strip will need to be relaid before the next Nitro anything at Hockenheim, that is if there is another meeting. Somebody is responsible, stop being a coward and come out from under the table!!!
Is there any quantifiable way you can measure the quality of a track so that somebody could make a decision?
We have seen in F1, some drivers trying to influence Charlie Whiting over the team radios to bring the safety car in during heavy rain when they want to get racing and overtake slower cars.
The only way to stop somebody trying to take advantage of a situation like at Hockenheim would not be to have a single person making a safety decision. It, is to have a single person making a safety decision on a track "quality value" that is measured and put in front of them. Then its a simple "yes" or "no" to comply with the rules. No arguments. If you ask somebody to make a judgment then they can always be influenced.
We have seen in F1, some drivers trying to influence Charlie Whiting over the team radios to bring the safety car in during heavy rain when they want to get racing and overtake slower cars.
The only way to stop somebody trying to take advantage of a situation like at Hockenheim would not be to have a single person making a safety decision. It, is to have a single person making a safety decision on a track "quality value" that is measured and put in front of them. Then its a simple "yes" or "no" to comply with the rules. No arguments. If you ask somebody to make a judgment then they can always be influenced.
RobKarloff said:
Great sum-up from Anita Makela today on Eurodragster.com
I think the time has come to ask ourselves what we want and expect from running as an FIA series (all classes). Running under the FIA banner does not seem to give us better conditions, more legitimacy to potential sponsors, or better management of the sport. Where is our Charlie Whiting...? No-one seemed to know who should ultimately be taking the decision on the safety of running on the track and the cancellation of the FIA classes. In the end, the pro class drivers got together and decided to take control of that decision themselves, and were made to pay for that in several ways. Really, that decision should have come from the top. But, we suffer from the problem that those at the top often have a vested financial interest in having things proceed despite any issues. It's pretty ridiculous that top fuel racers must send their rear wing main element to the USA each year for test and SFI tagging (and many other such items/costs), yet the safety and standards of the tracks that we race on is not scrutinized and controlled in the same manner.
Also, we are still influenced somewhat by the history of drag racing in Europe. Because it is very much a grass-roots sport still, and has its roots in match racing and show, we struggle to move forward into a more professional sport oriented system of championships, standards, points and management. For example, the top fuel drivers wanted to try and help the promoters to still provide a show for the fans, to make some passes and give them something for their support. Can you imagine that happening in other FIA race series? Plus, there have been reports of racers calling other racers "pussy" during the drivers meeting, for not feeling that the track was safe to run on. More worrying, similar accusation has been leveled at one of the main organizers of the event. We cannot call ourselves a professional sport if behavior like this is tolerated and not penalized. Everyone was entitled to their view on the safety of the track and whether they wanted to run or not, but in a professional racing series conduct is important and the majority decision should rule. There are plenty other events for those who are only interested in their own ends, whether that be financial or otherwise.
It's also very difficult to get agreement between all the drivers and owners, because there are so many different views and reasons from each one. It took many meetings between the top fuel class to come to agreement, but I think the fact that in the end agreement was reached unanimously was a great thing. Lastly, I feel that the financial system for the racers is structured in such a way that it puts pressure on them to run to ensure they re-coup as much of their costs as possible, even when they may not feel it is safe to do so. Even more pressure exists when it's a home race and a team has large hospitality and potential sponsors along to try and impress.
Great post - my nomination for "Post of the Year"!I think the time has come to ask ourselves what we want and expect from running as an FIA series (all classes). Running under the FIA banner does not seem to give us better conditions, more legitimacy to potential sponsors, or better management of the sport. Where is our Charlie Whiting...? No-one seemed to know who should ultimately be taking the decision on the safety of running on the track and the cancellation of the FIA classes. In the end, the pro class drivers got together and decided to take control of that decision themselves, and were made to pay for that in several ways. Really, that decision should have come from the top. But, we suffer from the problem that those at the top often have a vested financial interest in having things proceed despite any issues. It's pretty ridiculous that top fuel racers must send their rear wing main element to the USA each year for test and SFI tagging (and many other such items/costs), yet the safety and standards of the tracks that we race on is not scrutinized and controlled in the same manner.
Also, we are still influenced somewhat by the history of drag racing in Europe. Because it is very much a grass-roots sport still, and has its roots in match racing and show, we struggle to move forward into a more professional sport oriented system of championships, standards, points and management. For example, the top fuel drivers wanted to try and help the promoters to still provide a show for the fans, to make some passes and give them something for their support. Can you imagine that happening in other FIA race series? Plus, there have been reports of racers calling other racers "pussy" during the drivers meeting, for not feeling that the track was safe to run on. More worrying, similar accusation has been leveled at one of the main organizers of the event. We cannot call ourselves a professional sport if behavior like this is tolerated and not penalized. Everyone was entitled to their view on the safety of the track and whether they wanted to run or not, but in a professional racing series conduct is important and the majority decision should rule. There are plenty other events for those who are only interested in their own ends, whether that be financial or otherwise.
It's also very difficult to get agreement between all the drivers and owners, because there are so many different views and reasons from each one. It took many meetings between the top fuel class to come to agreement, but I think the fact that in the end agreement was reached unanimously was a great thing. Lastly, I feel that the financial system for the racers is structured in such a way that it puts pressure on them to run to ensure they re-coup as much of their costs as possible, even when they may not feel it is safe to do so. Even more pressure exists when it's a home race and a team has large hospitality and potential sponsors along to try and impress.
However, I note your stance has changed since you posted this on 21 Sepember 2011:
RobKarloff said:
I believe the hospices of the FIA are the best home for professional classes here in Europe. The NHRA is unheard of outside of the drag racing fraternity. The FIA is seen as the defacto sanctioning body for professional motorsports through most of the globe. There has been no issue of running under the FIA banner the past 10+ years, so this shouldn't be any reason to start talking about doing anything else.
Edited by NitroWars on Wednesday 15th August 12:14
I've never really understood why the FIA became the governing body for drag racing when it's dominated by circuit racing and rallying and all their top people come from that background. Everybody has mentioned the safety aspect of Hockenhiem but even if that had not been an issue operating on a zero traction track turns what should be a competitive motor sport into a lottery, like making F1 cars run with cycle tires or on ice. The governing body takes money and so should have some sort of responsibility to ensure that the track is not only safe but fair and a level playing field. I think drag racing's position in the pecking order at the FIA was demonstrated by ther initial instruction to clean the track.
I think the problem with Hockenhiem is that although it's a great facility in most ways it's only used properly once a year and I suspect is viewed by the circuit management as a sort of circus/lifestyle event. The Saturday night show is the big draw and that is not competitive drag racing so the surface is rather less important. If the FIA take away the Hockenhiem round I suspect the event will continue as before using a few contracted fuel cars to spice things up as it did a few years back.
While there are some top German competitors there are less than you would expect given the countries population, wealth, and motor sport heritage and I suspect the lack of a Santa Pod or Tierp to create a grass root plays some part in this. I was there for Sunday's fiasco but I do think it would be a great pity if Hockenhiem was taken out of the European championships as it's got the sort of facilities that are attractive to sponsors, it gets the biggest crowds in Europe, and it has the potential to sell drag racing in Germany which could have major long term benifits.
Bill
I think the problem with Hockenhiem is that although it's a great facility in most ways it's only used properly once a year and I suspect is viewed by the circuit management as a sort of circus/lifestyle event. The Saturday night show is the big draw and that is not competitive drag racing so the surface is rather less important. If the FIA take away the Hockenhiem round I suspect the event will continue as before using a few contracted fuel cars to spice things up as it did a few years back.
While there are some top German competitors there are less than you would expect given the countries population, wealth, and motor sport heritage and I suspect the lack of a Santa Pod or Tierp to create a grass root plays some part in this. I was there for Sunday's fiasco but I do think it would be a great pity if Hockenhiem was taken out of the European championships as it's got the sort of facilities that are attractive to sponsors, it gets the biggest crowds in Europe, and it has the potential to sell drag racing in Germany which could have major long term benifits.
Bill
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