traction control revisited
Discussion
and as you say there is only two ecu right now so it cant be that hard
yes if its on the car you need to be able to PROVE its not in use with a quick look
when i used it in testing with the blower car when i was in competition the Davis technology's box was unplugged and in the trailer so there was no dispute,
thats not possible with the ecu if you leave it in the trailer you wont get far,
so something quick simple that would satisfy other RACERS wether their turbo, blower, or n2o,
this will all be nicey nicey until someone runs stupid quick on a track no one else can get down, trust me iv been there and seen it first hand, the s
t stiring the rumors the accusations and from that day on everyone will be watching everyone else so the tech guys need to be able to check and give the right answer
yes if its on the car you need to be able to PROVE its not in use with a quick look
when i used it in testing with the blower car when i was in competition the Davis technology's box was unplugged and in the trailer so there was no dispute,
thats not possible with the ecu if you leave it in the trailer you wont get far,
so something quick simple that would satisfy other RACERS wether their turbo, blower, or n2o,
this will all be nicey nicey until someone runs stupid quick on a track no one else can get down, trust me iv been there and seen it first hand, the s
t stiring the rumors the accusations and from that day on everyone will be watching everyone else so the tech guys need to be able to check and give the right answerEdited by Turbobird1 on Tuesday 9th October 20:58
Could be 3 as we are looking at maybe using Syvecs in the new car.
Potentially a good deal to be done and local support on the ground to assist if required.
Either way have no issue showing logging etc.
Just need to sell the existing car now asap or we won't be racing till 2014 anyway !!
Potentially a good deal to be done and local support on the ground to assist if required.
Either way have no issue showing logging etc.
Just need to sell the existing car now asap or we won't be racing till 2014 anyway !!
how come your selling that car?? Jim who built it told me that was a pro mod spec chassis and as he builds the quickest fastest turbo pro mods in the world id have thought it was a good starting point...what axle does it have? i thought its a mw 11"
is it turnkey only or will you break it?
is it turnkey only or will you break it?
Selling as we bought the unused sister car to it last year Graham also built by Jim (never used).
Current car is ready to sell as a turnkey package that should run 6.6 or less off the trailer and an ideal car for Comp Elim, Top Doorslammer or S Pro or Jap Series.
New car will have a more upto date rear end, new and tidier wiring and built with 2013 Pro Mod parts in mind.
Current car is ready to sell as a turnkey package that should run 6.6 or less off the trailer and an ideal car for Comp Elim, Top Doorslammer or S Pro or Jap Series.
New car will have a more upto date rear end, new and tidier wiring and built with 2013 Pro Mod parts in mind.
rules say that an approved ecu must not monitor drive shaft or wheel speed and must be closed loop, so for a first and easy step how about removing any trans/drive-shaft/axle sensors that are not solely connected to a logging system ?
then the scrutineer could have a peek under the car ect,
if using tc for testing or other classes it takes minutes to put your sensor ring back on
the rules actually say that the wiring/sensors should be easily identifiable to the scrutineer,
so dosent that rule put the onus on us to help them identifying what were doing???
its in the rule book so id say its mandatory that we do that..
then the scrutineer could have a peek under the car ect,
if using tc for testing or other classes it takes minutes to put your sensor ring back on
the rules actually say that the wiring/sensors should be easily identifiable to the scrutineer,
so dosent that rule put the onus on us to help them identifying what were doing???
its in the rule book so id say its mandatory that we do that..
Edited by Turbobird1 on Wednesday 10th October 08:59
redvictor said:
If you look at that in the cold hard light of day,then you're saying that anyone with a turbo car at some point will cheat if you don't do something about it?
I don't want to put words into Graham's mouth, but I suspect what he's getting at is this: As soon as the turbo cars start consistently running the numbers in Europe (which let's face it, they will in the not too distant future), then you can guarantee that certain of the blower teams will suspect foul play, probably quite vocally. Ideally, you'd want to be in a position where the tech guys can turn around at that point and say "no, we've checked, they're not using traction control". So even though we don't believe that anyone is using traction control right now, we need to think about it now so that the tech guys have a chance to get up to speed for when the st hits the fan. Which it will. Otherwise, you can be sure that the blower teams will push for a spec ECU whether you like it or not. Better to fix them problem yourselves now than to have a fix imposed on you later, one that you may not like.Just to throw a further spanner into the works, it's notjust ECU controlled cars.
Anyone running an MSD Power Grid (either with or without a ProMag, and NHRA legal for ProMod, Top Alcohol and Sportsman), can get a 7761 Advance RPM Control Module to plug into it which uses slew rate to control RPM.
What's worse, the 7761 is small enough to fit into a pocket so unless someone's at the big end of the track to observe, it wouldn't neccessarily still be on the car by the time it gets back to scrutineering. And if you don't run the Micro SD card in the Power Grid, or record the ignition in a Racepak, there won't be any evidence that it was ever connected.....
Anyone running an MSD Power Grid (either with or without a ProMag, and NHRA legal for ProMod, Top Alcohol and Sportsman), can get a 7761 Advance RPM Control Module to plug into it which uses slew rate to control RPM.
What's worse, the 7761 is small enough to fit into a pocket so unless someone's at the big end of the track to observe, it wouldn't neccessarily still be on the car by the time it gets back to scrutineering. And if you don't run the Micro SD card in the Power Grid, or record the ignition in a Racepak, there won't be any evidence that it was ever connected.....
Tet said:
I don't want to put words into Graham's mouth, but I suspect what he's getting at is this: As soon as the turbo cars start consistently running the numbers in Europe (which let's face it, they will in the not too distant future), then you can guarantee that certain of the blower teams will suspect foul play, probably quite vocally. Ideally, you'd want to be in a position where the tech guys can turn around at that point and say "no, we've checked, they're not using traction control". So even though we don't believe that anyone is using traction control right now, we need to think about it now so that the tech guys have a chance to get up to speed for when the st hits the fan. Which it will. Otherwise, you can be sure that the blower teams will push for a spec ECU whether you like it or not. Better to fix them problem yourselves now than to have a fix imposed on you later, one that you may not like.
Jesus h Christ at last ...... t hits the fan. Which it will. Otherwise, you can be sure that the blower teams will push for a spec ECU whether you like it or not. Better to fix them problem yourselves now than to have a fix imposed on you later, one that you may not like.isnt that exactly what iv been saying.....
i know my spellings s
t and my grammar leaves something to be desired but was it that unintelligibleTurbobird1 said:
Tet said:
I don't want to put words into Graham's mouth, but I suspect what he's getting at is this: As soon as the turbo cars start consistently running the numbers in Europe (which let's face it, they will in the not too distant future), then you can guarantee that certain of the blower teams will suspect foul play, probably quite vocally. Ideally, you'd want to be in a position where the tech guys can turn around at that point and say "no, we've checked, they're not using traction control". So even though we don't believe that anyone is using traction control right now, we need to think about it now so that the tech guys have a chance to get up to speed for when the st hits the fan. Which it will. Otherwise, you can be sure that the blower teams will push for a spec ECU whether you like it or not. Better to fix them problem yourselves now than to have a fix imposed on you later, one that you may not like.
Jesus h Christ at last ...... t hits the fan. Which it will. Otherwise, you can be sure that the blower teams will push for a spec ECU whether you like it or not. Better to fix them problem yourselves now than to have a fix imposed on you later, one that you may not like.isnt that exactly what iv been saying.....
i know my spellings s
t and my grammar leaves something to be desired but was it that unintelligible
Off topic (which I find very interesting, thanks for the tech insights) :
On one of my late pit strolls I ended up in Jaska Salakari´s pit where he was working on his blown Super Twin
which is running sequentially injected Nitro (unique in the world ? )
controlled by a self-developed and self-built ECU which is also controlling the ignition and clutch system timers.
This was about two years ago when he was mostly blowing up engines.
He told me that he was aiming for low 6s, and if he ever gets quick, he is awaiting protests
accusing him of using tc because nobody knows what is happening in his stacked circuit boards.
Now that he is getting quicker, faster and -a litte- more constant,
we´ll see if that will happen, and how techies deal with a totally unique self-built unit.
I would find it sad it such ingenuity would be out-ruled because I like that kind of "left-field" bikes.
Now, back to cars.....
On one of my late pit strolls I ended up in Jaska Salakari´s pit where he was working on his blown Super Twin
which is running sequentially injected Nitro (unique in the world ? )
controlled by a self-developed and self-built ECU which is also controlling the ignition and clutch system timers.
This was about two years ago when he was mostly blowing up engines.
He told me that he was aiming for low 6s, and if he ever gets quick, he is awaiting protests
accusing him of using tc because nobody knows what is happening in his stacked circuit boards.
Now that he is getting quicker, faster and -a litte- more constant,
we´ll see if that will happen, and how techies deal with a totally unique self-built unit.
I would find it sad it such ingenuity would be out-ruled because I like that kind of "left-field" bikes.
Now, back to cars.....
Benni said:
Off topic (which I find very interesting, thanks for the tech insights) :
On one of my late pit strolls I ended up in Jaska Salakari´s pit where he was working on his blown Super Twin
which is running sequentially injected Nitro (unique in the world ? )
controlled by a self-developed and self-built ECU which is also controlling the ignition and clutch system timers.
This was about two years ago when he was mostly blowing up engines.
He told me that he was aiming for low 6s, and if he ever gets quick, he is awaiting protests
accusing him of using tc because nobody knows what is happening in his stacked circuit boards.
Now that he is getting quicker, faster and -a litte- more constant,
we´ll see if that will happen, and how techies deal with a totally unique self-built unit.
I would find it sad it such ingenuity would be out-ruled because I like that kind of "left-field" bikes.
Now, back to cars.....
That's a very good point.On one of my late pit strolls I ended up in Jaska Salakari´s pit where he was working on his blown Super Twin
which is running sequentially injected Nitro (unique in the world ? )
controlled by a self-developed and self-built ECU which is also controlling the ignition and clutch system timers.
This was about two years ago when he was mostly blowing up engines.
He told me that he was aiming for low 6s, and if he ever gets quick, he is awaiting protests
accusing him of using tc because nobody knows what is happening in his stacked circuit boards.
Now that he is getting quicker, faster and -a litte- more constant,
we´ll see if that will happen, and how techies deal with a totally unique self-built unit.
I would find it sad it such ingenuity would be out-ruled because I like that kind of "left-field" bikes.
Now, back to cars.....
If a class allows somebody to compete with them whilst knowing there may be an issue with their car/bike you should say something straight away rather than wait till they beat you, and then roll out the sour grapes.
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