Robin Read and nitromethane
Discussion
One of many great memories I have of Super-Pro was running our car against Robin's. He and his crew added another dimension to the racing and, despite being a clutch car, they soon go to grips with the tree and dialing in. It looks like he'll be returning which is excellent news, both for him and for Super-Pro.
ribaric said:
One of many great memories I have of Super-Pro was running our car against Robin's. He and his crew added another dimension to the racing and, despite being a clutch car, they soon go to grips with the tree and dialing in. It looks like he'll be returning which is excellent news, both for him and for Super-Pro.
Be great to see Robins car back racing , so what are the rules going to be for running Nitro in Super Pro ? Dragsters only ? only rear engine ? limited engine size ? not allowed for door cars ?
I'm no nitro expert but I am aware of insurance implications for the track operator in that, no nitro = cheaper premiums.
I guess the risks are concerned with the explosive potential so I don't see the difference between doorslammers and dragsters with the possible exception of the front engine configuration and it's history maybe? The same is possibly true regarding engine size? Bigger engine = bigger explosion perhaps?
Of course, being the Super-Pro nutter I am, I see this as yet another reason to view it as a quasi-elite class capable of headlining any domestic and some international events, even more if the slow end of the bracket is trimmed back a bit. The domestic German scene is now dominated by Super-Pro and it is starting to push out some of the contrived and thinly populated heads up classes in Hungary. Does anyone know if Drachten has plans for it? They desperately need more entrants and they already have an organisation with enthusiasm to make it work.
Whatever (climbs down from soap box), welcome back Mr Read and family. It's been too long.
I guess the risks are concerned with the explosive potential so I don't see the difference between doorslammers and dragsters with the possible exception of the front engine configuration and it's history maybe? The same is possibly true regarding engine size? Bigger engine = bigger explosion perhaps?
Of course, being the Super-Pro nutter I am, I see this as yet another reason to view it as a quasi-elite class capable of headlining any domestic and some international events, even more if the slow end of the bracket is trimmed back a bit. The domestic German scene is now dominated by Super-Pro and it is starting to push out some of the contrived and thinly populated heads up classes in Hungary. Does anyone know if Drachten has plans for it? They desperately need more entrants and they already have an organisation with enthusiasm to make it work.
Whatever (climbs down from soap box), welcome back Mr Read and family. It's been too long.
firewalker said:
This is the Daimler powered RED no?
He's ran it at York a few times now, exhibition on Nitro.
That's the one. There were two AFAIK, Russ Carpenter's and Robins and were dubbed "Junior Fuellers". 2.5 litre Daimler/Jag V8 Hemis on nitromethane and quite spectacular to boot! Robin was running high sixes when we were racing against him. The noise!!!! It has to be heard.He's ran it at York a few times now, exhibition on Nitro.
ribaric said:
I see this as yet another reason to view it as a quasi-elite class capable of headlining any domestic and some international events
Tell me my eyes deceive me?! Super Pro could headline any domestic event? Possibly the "secret nationals", I'm intrigued as to how many spectators would be at this quasi-elite spectacular, and how keen the track owners would be on the idea. Each to their own and all that, but Super Pro is still bracket racing. The reason the class is so well subscribed is more a reflection on the state of drag racing in Britain and Europe rather than a display of the class' greatness - merely my opinion of course bracket fans. Unlike just about every other form of motorsport on the planet where people consult a rulebook and then construct a car to suit, what we do is build a car "how I want it because it's my money and the tracks are lucky to have me because people are paying to watch etc". Once the car is done, then we explore either option a); piss and moan about existing class rules and attempt to get the rules changed to suit, or b); go Super Pro. If option b is used, what you then have to do is talk about how you'd love to race heads up but you're waiting for the magic bullet class where everyone can race any combo they want competitely, running 5s and 6s for no more than the price of a barrel of fuel for the season.
Super Pro is a big competitive class that's great for honing racing skills in etc, but there are some hard and fast rules that can never be escaped, such as people will only pay to watch big loud cars that race each other, not the stopwatch. Without the tracks and the spectators, somehow despite popular belief, the sport doesn't exist. The day a bracket class "headlines" an event, drag racing is on borrowed time...and given the disharmony in the FIA championship currently, and the lack of new "Pro" teams on the scene from our shores, it could become a distinct reality in the not too distant future. Like I said, just my opinion.
Edited by Rat_Fink_67 on Tuesday 28th October 15:01
Rat Fink; I totaly agree on this one.
But what should be the solution ?
It is going to be very hard to give direction on this one, only
Ways are the rulebook and the " i want to be part" factor and
The one that work best in my opinion is raise the travel and price money
Just My 50ct
P.s excuse for the English 😃
But what should be the solution ?
It is going to be very hard to give direction on this one, only
Ways are the rulebook and the " i want to be part" factor and
The one that work best in my opinion is raise the travel and price money
Just My 50ct
P.s excuse for the English 😃
The first step would be to establish how many of the current sporstman racers are interested or inclined to run a package that needs tuning and refining. I suspect the numbers would be sufficiently low to cancel out any attempt at "solving" the problem.
The more that bracket mania sweeps the nation, the skillset to build, tune, maintain and run a heads-up race car is dying out. Look at Comp Eliminator over here, it's never really taken hold barring a few hardcore that actively seek performance gains and get something out of making a combination run quicker. The main differences between Comp and Super Pro are budget and desire. Budget is a hurdle I agree, but there are plenty of very nicely turned out Super Pro cars that won't have exactly cost pocket money to put together and run, so on the whole I would suspect that's not the main barrier.
My two cents.
The more that bracket mania sweeps the nation, the skillset to build, tune, maintain and run a heads-up race car is dying out. Look at Comp Eliminator over here, it's never really taken hold barring a few hardcore that actively seek performance gains and get something out of making a combination run quicker. The main differences between Comp and Super Pro are budget and desire. Budget is a hurdle I agree, but there are plenty of very nicely turned out Super Pro cars that won't have exactly cost pocket money to put together and run, so on the whole I would suspect that's not the main barrier.
My two cents.
Rat_Fink_67 said:
The first step would be to establish how many of the current sporstman racers are interested or inclined to run a package that needs tuning and refining. I suspect the numbers would be sufficiently low to cancel out any attempt at "solving" the problem.
Maybe this is also because there is not enough info how to run a pro car ? What is realy needed to run, for example, a decent pro mod car or funny car ?
I also think that indeed several s pro et teams can ran a pro class with ease.
Good Info is hard to get.
I agree with your general sentiments Ratfink but, for as long as drag racing has spluttered along in Europe, "pro" classes have mostly struggled for numbers (a) due to the cost and (b) one mega funded team often makes it all a bit of a futile exercise for the others. I understand the brackets are not for the purists and we'd all love to see big fields of nitro cars, pro-mods etc., but history would seem to demonstrate that it rarely is the case. Even now, finals days are less well attended than the day before so this purist view of unlimited racing is not supported by the ticket buyers - they want to see loud and fast racing vehicles and plenty of 'em... In other words, a spectacle. Nobody really cares who is the FIA champion.
I'm just being practical by advocating that something like the current Super-Pro format, maybe a speeded up a bit, add a few nitro fed machines, is worth developing further. Imagine a few more Martyn Jones type teams out there?
I'm just being practical by advocating that something like the current Super-Pro format, maybe a speeded up a bit, add a few nitro fed machines, is worth developing further. Imagine a few more Martyn Jones type teams out there?
There are a few Martyn Jones type teams out there, it's called Top Methanol Dragster.
Bracket racing, no matter what guise or format it's in, will ever draw a crowd. The big dollar races in the states only exist due to the sponsorship. Avon Park is virtually E.T.racing only at the permit rounds these days and it's not exactly standing room only.
There are deep rooted problems in domestic drag racing at the moment and unfortunately "Super Pro on acid" is about as far removed from the solution as I am from waking up next to Katy Perry tomorrow morning. The decision to ditch index racing in favour of dial-ins has been a very effective way to eradicate the desire, ability and knowledge to operate a car capable of drawing in the aforementioned crowds. Without the general public paying their money to come and watch, the sport will only be able to sustain itself for so long, and dwindling numbers of "big cars" will only accelerate the problem. I'm not professing to have all or even some of the answers, just asking that people acknowledge what aren't. I stand by my previous statement, that the day an E.T. bracket class 'headlines' a domestic or European championship event, it will be the beginning of the end. Even Pro Modified is struggling to pull the punters at the Summer Nationals and National Finals, and I'd let those evil b
ds take the Pepsi challenge against Super Pro any day of any week.
Bracket racing, no matter what guise or format it's in, will ever draw a crowd. The big dollar races in the states only exist due to the sponsorship. Avon Park is virtually E.T.racing only at the permit rounds these days and it's not exactly standing room only.
There are deep rooted problems in domestic drag racing at the moment and unfortunately "Super Pro on acid" is about as far removed from the solution as I am from waking up next to Katy Perry tomorrow morning. The decision to ditch index racing in favour of dial-ins has been a very effective way to eradicate the desire, ability and knowledge to operate a car capable of drawing in the aforementioned crowds. Without the general public paying their money to come and watch, the sport will only be able to sustain itself for so long, and dwindling numbers of "big cars" will only accelerate the problem. I'm not professing to have all or even some of the answers, just asking that people acknowledge what aren't. I stand by my previous statement, that the day an E.T. bracket class 'headlines' a domestic or European championship event, it will be the beginning of the end. Even Pro Modified is struggling to pull the punters at the Summer Nationals and National Finals, and I'd let those evil b
ds take the Pepsi challenge against Super Pro any day of any week.Rat_Fink_67 said:
... what we do is build a car "how I want it because it's my money and the tracks are lucky to have me because people are paying to watch etc". Once the car is done, then we explore either option a); piss and moan about existing class rules and attempt to get the rules changed to suit, or b); go Super Pro. If option b is used, what you then have to do is talk about how you'd love to race heads up but you're waiting for the magic bullet class where everyone can race any combo they want competitely, running 5s and 6s for no more than the price of a barrel of fuel for the season.
Super Pro is a big competitive class that's great for honing racing skills in etc, but there are some hard and fast rules that can never be escaped, such as people will only pay to watch big loud cars that race each other, not the stopwatch. Without the tracks and the spectators, somehow despite popular belief, the sport doesn't exist. The day a bracket class "headlines"...
So what about the cars that are specifically built to be SuperPro bracket cars Lee? What about the people who bracket race because they are racing each other and not the stopwatch (at each end of the track)? You cannot tar everyone, in fact you can tar really not that many at all in SuperPro with that sticky brush. Not everyone has that mentality and as far as I'm concerned the real drag racers out there are the ones that put together the best package they can for the class they want to race in. The "I want to build this and go quick in it, then find a class to run in" isn't drag racing to me either so at least we agree on that point.Super Pro is a big competitive class that's great for honing racing skills in etc, but there are some hard and fast rules that can never be escaped, such as people will only pay to watch big loud cars that race each other, not the stopwatch. Without the tracks and the spectators, somehow despite popular belief, the sport doesn't exist. The day a bracket class "headlines"...
You also definitely cannot tar spectators with that brush either. As a spectator over the years I've often been to a meeting to see the bracket classes and much to some people's irritation the super classes too as I'm sure have many others in fact I've usually attended with quite a few of them. Whilst I agree that drag racing as we know it with a 35,000 gate and the great facilities we have cannot exist on SuperPro as a headliner what we are missing here is the fact that the marketing of the sport needs to manage expectations within its audience and when it does bracket racing and other forms can grow without always needing the biggest, loudest, nastiest race vehicles at every race meeting.
Look at the way that gate numbers and competitor numbers have grown at York over the past 3 or 4 years. You're not even going to see Super/Pro at York (well at least not on a championship basis), just ProET and ASS headlining yet the gate numbers for weekend meetings are now really encouraging when compared with other venues sportsman meetings. It's just a matter of correct positioning and developing what is a very specific part of the market. This is something SPR excels at with its lifestyle meetings so I don't see why the sportsman/bracket niche cannot be developed to create much greater spectator buy-in than we currently see. OK it will never have the mass appeal of an international meeting with fuel cars and pro-mods, but I don't see any reason not to be able to sell a really great competitive sportsman series to a significant audience. Take a look at the number of people who are still stood out on the bank at a European Finals meeting long after pro qualifying has finished watching the last cycle of sportsman racing often on a cold dark night. These aren't day trippers, these are hardcore drag racing fans, but they haven't all yet been captured at a level that will bring them to a sportsman only meeting.
Edited by TheMighty on Tuesday 28th October 18:29
You've just said yourself that such an event wouldn't draw the masses, so there's not much need for me to respond, but I will anyway.
Ok, so York...yeah I agree, they do a great job with what they have at their disposal, but with the best will in the world you're not going to sustain interest or gain growth in the sport relying on the ASS cars and some E.T. racing. I agree wholeheartedly that the media and marketing side of things needs brushing up, but I suspect you're in the vast minority that would pay to spectate at Santa Pod for a round of a domestic championship based solely around the brackets and super classes. As for people that construct purpose-built bracket cars, well I'm sorry but they'll never be anything but a small cog in a machine that needs to provide a lot more spectacle if they're going to continue to have a championship to take part in.
Here's an exercise - try explaining to a casual observer how a car can sit on the startline for 3 seconds after the other one, get to the finishine second, and then win. I guarantee before you've finished your sentence explaining dial ins and breakouts, their minds will have drifted to touring cars or formula one etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the entry level of the sport, just trying to draw some exposure to the bigger picture...changes are required to help sustain drag racing in this country at nice facilities in front of healthy crowds.
Yeah there are loads of people stood on the bank at the Euro's after the pro sessions have been and gone, but those people were already there. Have you looked over your shoulder at the same time and taken note of the queue to get out as well? No amount of marketing will draw that amount of spectators purely for a bracket race, ever.
Ok, so York...yeah I agree, they do a great job with what they have at their disposal, but with the best will in the world you're not going to sustain interest or gain growth in the sport relying on the ASS cars and some E.T. racing. I agree wholeheartedly that the media and marketing side of things needs brushing up, but I suspect you're in the vast minority that would pay to spectate at Santa Pod for a round of a domestic championship based solely around the brackets and super classes. As for people that construct purpose-built bracket cars, well I'm sorry but they'll never be anything but a small cog in a machine that needs to provide a lot more spectacle if they're going to continue to have a championship to take part in.
Here's an exercise - try explaining to a casual observer how a car can sit on the startline for 3 seconds after the other one, get to the finishine second, and then win. I guarantee before you've finished your sentence explaining dial ins and breakouts, their minds will have drifted to touring cars or formula one etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the entry level of the sport, just trying to draw some exposure to the bigger picture...changes are required to help sustain drag racing in this country at nice facilities in front of healthy crowds.
Yeah there are loads of people stood on the bank at the Euro's after the pro sessions have been and gone, but those people were already there. Have you looked over your shoulder at the same time and taken note of the queue to get out as well? No amount of marketing will draw that amount of spectators purely for a bracket race, ever.
Edited by Rat_Fink_67 on Tuesday 28th October 18:45
Rat_Fink_67 said:
You've just said yourself that such an event wouldn't draw the masses, so there's not much need for me to respond, but I will anyway.
Ok, so York...yeah I agree, they do a great job with what they have at their disposal, but with the best will in the world you're not going to sustain interest or gain growth in the sport relying on the ASS cars and some E.T. racing...
...Here's an exercise - try explaining to a casual observer how a car can sit on the startline for 3 seconds after the other one, get to the finishine second, and then win...
Yeah there are loads of people stood on the bank at the Euro's after the pro sessions have been and gone, but those people were already there. Have you looked over your shoulder at the same time and taken note of the queue to get out as well? No amount of marketing will draw that amount of spectators purely for a bracket race, ever.
What I think you're missing Lee is that not every event NEEDS to draw the masses. Sustaining the business of drag racing is about keeping venues financially viable, giving racers some meaningful racing at all levels (and I agree preferably with some progression) and maintaining a profile and brand image which allows promoters to draw the masses when required in order to offset the costs of a small number of costly international events. If the SPR marketing machine could entice all those people who are stood on the bank on a chilly night watching SuperPro close the meeting for the night to spend a few quid to return to a couple of sportsman only meetings per year which are far less costly to stage, as much as they would like to have the day trippers who are in the queue to leave too, there would be no real NEED for their support to make those meetings viable.Ok, so York...yeah I agree, they do a great job with what they have at their disposal, but with the best will in the world you're not going to sustain interest or gain growth in the sport relying on the ASS cars and some E.T. racing...
...Here's an exercise - try explaining to a casual observer how a car can sit on the startline for 3 seconds after the other one, get to the finishine second, and then win...
Yeah there are loads of people stood on the bank at the Euro's after the pro sessions have been and gone, but those people were already there. Have you looked over your shoulder at the same time and taken note of the queue to get out as well? No amount of marketing will draw that amount of spectators purely for a bracket race, ever.
You say that you can't sustain or gain growth in the sport relying on ASS and some ET racing, yet that is exactly what is happening at York. It is seeing growth year on year over the last few years. It's not an overnight sensation, however it is gaining ground and heading for a much brighter future. That might not put money in your pocket to run a race car, but it does ensure the future of drag racing in the North of England and surely what you are talking about is ensuring the future of drag racing however that may be packaged? Or is actually the only concern the future of a few pro-classes that may or may not be financially viable in the UK?
I've explained bracket racing to plenty of people. People involved in motorsport and others that have actually come to a race meeting and will return because it is far more tactical and in-depth than they thought because they wrongly had the impression it was all about just making as much dirty horsepower as possible and getting to the finish line first and they weren't interested in that. Maybe I just explain it well, or maybe I'm just trying to explain it to "the right people"
Edited by TheMighty on Tuesday 28th October 19:47
What I think you're missing (sorry, I didn't catch your name) is that no amount of marketing will entice a substantial crowd to a sportsman only event, it's absolute fantasy. I can see that I'm banging my head against a brick wall here and the blinkers are firmly on. I did type out a long reply but it really isn't worth posting. All I'll say is this; If you think that it's good for the future of drag racing in this country that we maybe staring down the barrel of a sportsman only gun and are likely to lose the spectacle of heads-up no breakout racing, then you and "the right people" are welcome to stand on the bank and watch...I won't be interested.
obviously all matters in forums and discussions are mostly opinion, so...that being said i was on the banking for years before i ended up on the startline. Even failing many times in SUMO crews before being part of the best crew i've seen at Pod in TMFC. Seeing bracket racing for the first time bored the living piss out of me to be quite honest and i loved drag racing and everything it stood for. I never turned up to watch all the big boys alone i wanted to see the real cars, cars with doors, with sticks, clutches, loud, leary and bks behind the wheel because the ride might be hairy! That was drag racing and in my opinion heads up and as much horsepower (the class rules will allow) that can be tuned out of the engine combination IS drag racing! That's what drag racing is! John Boy never had a throttle stop on the "'32 Deuce Coupe" did he? because it wasn't drag racing. Lee is trying to be realistic and i support all you guys with all the racing, we know it's hard for everyone with money etc.. but does a fan paying at the gate stop to think "i hope they can all afford to race this year"?, no! because they buy a ticket and expect to see what they are paying for which for now..aint super pro headlining an event and to be honest never will be. There are die hard fans that stay for the cars like that, i stayed one year purely to watch AL's gasser and got stuck on the motorway for 6 hours because of it! i didn't mind but if you asked me would i do it again? no! why? because to be brutal when you've seen a super pro car or any bracket car once you've pretty much seen every run it will do barring taking a dive for the wall or spitting its guts in a ball of flames which frankly apart from the chavs with special brew in hand no one wants to see. It's just not realistic to think super pro or pro ET could ever headline and keep the fans happy even with the marketing behind it. I can sit on that banking from dusk till dawn but i wouldn't do it for just pro et and super pro so i doubt an average spectator will.
ks behind the wheel because the ride might be hairy! That was drag racing and in my opinion heads up and as much horsepower (the class rules will allow) that can be tuned out of the engine combination IS drag racing! That's what drag racing is! John Boy never had a throttle stop on the "'32 Deuce Coupe" did he? because it wasn't drag racing. Lee is trying to be realistic and i support all you guys with all the racing, we know it's hard for everyone with money etc.. but does a fan paying at the gate stop to think "i hope they can all afford to race this year"?, no! because they buy a ticket and expect to see what they are paying for which for now..aint super pro headlining an event and to be honest never will be. There are die hard fans that stay for the cars like that, i stayed one year purely to watch AL's gasser and got stuck on the motorway for 6 hours because of it! i didn't mind but if you asked me would i do it again? no! why? because to be brutal when you've seen a super pro car or any bracket car once you've pretty much seen every run it will do barring taking a dive for the wall or spitting its guts in a ball of flames which frankly apart from the chavs with special brew in hand no one wants to see. It's just not realistic to think super pro or pro ET could ever headline and keep the fans happy even with the marketing behind it. I can sit on that banking from dusk till dawn but i wouldn't do it for just pro et and super pro so i doubt an average spectator will. The hard truth is that drag racing isn't doing so well. I think we're struggling more than some areas of Europe and while NHRA are stronger still they too are seeing a decline. Numbers of pro cars are dwindling in Europe although we're probably worst affected due to travel costs. Weather here has been harsh too. Anyway we need classes that are a spectacle and super pro does that. The cars are, in at least some cases, pro class type fast and the racing is real close too. Side by side at the finish line - probably more so that the pros. There are also plenty of cars entering, with a 64 car field a year and a bit ago.
Currently there aren't any other options. There realistically isn't a top methanol in the UK, pro mod is coming back but that's really about it. I think there needs to be something else but I don't have the answers. Super Pro at least gives people a place to race. I think diversity is necessary in the UK as we don't have enough cars to do just dragsters or just door cars or whatever.
As for development, I think the problem is lack of money and maybe knowledge. Developing a combination requires track time, and there's more risk of making mistakes and doing damage so people stay fairly safe. I think it's probably the case that there used to be lots of back yard engineers machining there own parts in the shed, but I'm not sure there are any more, probably because they don't know how. There are lots of aftermarket parts but they cost more over here because of shipping and tax when they arrive. I'd love to develop a combination to run real fast in my slingshot - but I haven't got the funds or knowledge and I'm first to admit that. I'll keep chipping away as best I can as I learn. I'm not just going to quit racing though because I can't race heads up. There are racers out there with passion and drive doing the same thing, and hopefully we can put on enough of a show so there are still tracks on which to race. Without the sportsman cars I think drag racing would end in this country... and guess what... The same applies the other way around. We need each other so not much point bickering on it.
Currently there aren't any other options. There realistically isn't a top methanol in the UK, pro mod is coming back but that's really about it. I think there needs to be something else but I don't have the answers. Super Pro at least gives people a place to race. I think diversity is necessary in the UK as we don't have enough cars to do just dragsters or just door cars or whatever.
As for development, I think the problem is lack of money and maybe knowledge. Developing a combination requires track time, and there's more risk of making mistakes and doing damage so people stay fairly safe. I think it's probably the case that there used to be lots of back yard engineers machining there own parts in the shed, but I'm not sure there are any more, probably because they don't know how. There are lots of aftermarket parts but they cost more over here because of shipping and tax when they arrive. I'd love to develop a combination to run real fast in my slingshot - but I haven't got the funds or knowledge and I'm first to admit that. I'll keep chipping away as best I can as I learn. I'm not just going to quit racing though because I can't race heads up. There are racers out there with passion and drive doing the same thing, and hopefully we can put on enough of a show so there are still tracks on which to race. Without the sportsman cars I think drag racing would end in this country... and guess what... The same applies the other way around. We need each other so not much point bickering on it.
Good debate with very good points coming from everybody.
To interject - York's appeal is really it's grass roots atmosphere, the flip side to SPR. I drive past it to SPR when events clash, much as I really enjoy the atmosphere and some of the racing at York when I do go.
A lot of people who go there have never been anywhere else, the 'locals' from within an hour or so's drive having a day out.
For others like myself it's a season filler to make the most of because it's there within reach.
It's also a facility for racers for whom SPR events are just a little out of reach.
Can't knock it whatsoever, but the interest in drag racing that gets me there is sustained by the excitement fed by pro-classes seen at SPR. Without that interest I probably wouldn't make the effort.
Bracket racing has been around on both sides of the Atlantic (and equator) for a long time, I don't see how it's popularity among it's racers is anything less than healthy. However, I agree with some of the issues expressed already, it can be hard to maintain interest as a spectator.
The minority best looking cars or exceptional performers are what peps it up but it's easy to walk away and difficult to justify any attraction to new people who maybe quite rightly see drag racing to be an acceleration contest.
To be honest, with bracket classes I try but still lose track of what's going on in stark contrast to following the heads up teams progresses through an event.
So no, it wouldn't drag me through the gate very often if at all.
To interject - York's appeal is really it's grass roots atmosphere, the flip side to SPR. I drive past it to SPR when events clash, much as I really enjoy the atmosphere and some of the racing at York when I do go.
A lot of people who go there have never been anywhere else, the 'locals' from within an hour or so's drive having a day out.
For others like myself it's a season filler to make the most of because it's there within reach.
It's also a facility for racers for whom SPR events are just a little out of reach.
Can't knock it whatsoever, but the interest in drag racing that gets me there is sustained by the excitement fed by pro-classes seen at SPR. Without that interest I probably wouldn't make the effort.
Bracket racing has been around on both sides of the Atlantic (and equator) for a long time, I don't see how it's popularity among it's racers is anything less than healthy. However, I agree with some of the issues expressed already, it can be hard to maintain interest as a spectator.
The minority best looking cars or exceptional performers are what peps it up but it's easy to walk away and difficult to justify any attraction to new people who maybe quite rightly see drag racing to be an acceleration contest.
To be honest, with bracket classes I try but still lose track of what's going on in stark contrast to following the heads up teams progresses through an event.
So no, it wouldn't drag me through the gate very often if at all.
A good debate, thanks to all for that.
I want to take issue with the view that Martyn Jone's car is a TMD. It isn't. As far as I know, Syd and his crew have no intention in runnning TMD and never have. However, it is a 5 second blown methanol dragster and provides all the spectacle of TMD cars - but running SuPro. Robin Read will provide a spectacle with his "junior fueller" to match 98% of the British pro cars - whilst running in SuPro. The speeds, ETs and all round performance in SuPro has steadily improved down the years and continues to do so.
I admit to finding it difficult to explain all the facets of ET racing to "some people" but, to us bracket fans, it is this complexity which is attractive. Cricket lovers would understand the point.
I accept, SuPro will not fill Santa Pod but I do maintain that, with correct development and marketing, it can provide a vital component in any promotion by providing it's own brand of spectacle, showmanship and competition.
BTW, my favourite class would be a decent field of nostalgia funny cars.
I want to take issue with the view that Martyn Jone's car is a TMD. It isn't. As far as I know, Syd and his crew have no intention in runnning TMD and never have. However, it is a 5 second blown methanol dragster and provides all the spectacle of TMD cars - but running SuPro. Robin Read will provide a spectacle with his "junior fueller" to match 98% of the British pro cars - whilst running in SuPro. The speeds, ETs and all round performance in SuPro has steadily improved down the years and continues to do so.
I admit to finding it difficult to explain all the facets of ET racing to "some people" but, to us bracket fans, it is this complexity which is attractive. Cricket lovers would understand the point.
I accept, SuPro will not fill Santa Pod but I do maintain that, with correct development and marketing, it can provide a vital component in any promotion by providing it's own brand of spectacle, showmanship and competition.
BTW, my favourite class would be a decent field of nostalgia funny cars.
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