Discussion
Hi guys,
I'm looking for a bit of friendly PH input.. My RS is beginning to become a money pit fuel wise, insurance wise and consumables wise.. I've been eyeing up an Integra DC5 in the Classifieds, they're facelifts and being marketted by SVA Imports of Dover. My request for your opinions and information are thus;
1. What is the power delivery like? Obviously turbo to N/A, ableit a VTEC engined N/A has a different delivery, but what is the VTEC like? I've heard many a things such as a noticeable torque thump when the VTEC kicks it.
2. Chassis, I'm used to high powered FWD applications, but how does it cope with the power? Is it fitted with LSD as standard? If not is there a variant that is? Does it have lift off oversteer? Is it planted in the corners etc...
3. Maintenance and Consumables; Is it relatively cheap replacement parts for brakes and servicing etc? Does anyone know the insurance group?
Apologies for the questions, but I'm currently unable to get to a dealer to test drive and at the end of the day want a view from owners from a reputable club instead of a salesman.
The car will be used as the RS is, a daily, at weekends for hooning and on tracks.
Thanks in advance guys and girls
I'm looking for a bit of friendly PH input.. My RS is beginning to become a money pit fuel wise, insurance wise and consumables wise.. I've been eyeing up an Integra DC5 in the Classifieds, they're facelifts and being marketted by SVA Imports of Dover. My request for your opinions and information are thus;
1. What is the power delivery like? Obviously turbo to N/A, ableit a VTEC engined N/A has a different delivery, but what is the VTEC like? I've heard many a things such as a noticeable torque thump when the VTEC kicks it.
2. Chassis, I'm used to high powered FWD applications, but how does it cope with the power? Is it fitted with LSD as standard? If not is there a variant that is? Does it have lift off oversteer? Is it planted in the corners etc...
3. Maintenance and Consumables; Is it relatively cheap replacement parts for brakes and servicing etc? Does anyone know the insurance group?
Apologies for the questions, but I'm currently unable to get to a dealer to test drive and at the end of the day want a view from owners from a reputable club instead of a salesman.
The car will be used as the RS is, a daily, at weekends for hooning and on tracks.
Thanks in advance guys and girls
I'm sure Kingston will cover everything, but it doesn't hurt to have another person's opinion 
1. Power delivery - Low revs it's just the same as another 2litre N/A petrol. 6k plus, it's race car esque. The revs climb noticeably quicker and engine note is louder/harder. Dont expect a 'thump' in torque similar to a turbo car, as it's not the same feeling (like you say in your post). Gearbox has to be worked to get the full benefit and it's a nice 'box anyway.
2. It's a great handling car. Plenty of grip and feedback. All are fitted with an LSD. A fast road set-up (FRSU) is supposed to improve the handling immensely, I'm yet to get round to this though. Suspension can be a tad unforgiving on poor roads.
3. Cheap for the performance. 28-40mpg is common place. Less if driven very hard obviously. Honda/brembo fronts approx £50 pads & £100 discs. Servicing same as the EP3. They can use a little oil, up to a litre per 1k miles is not un-heard of, mine uses a about a litre per 6k miles. Insurance group 20.
Hope that helps
1. Power delivery - Low revs it's just the same as another 2litre N/A petrol. 6k plus, it's race car esque. The revs climb noticeably quicker and engine note is louder/harder. Dont expect a 'thump' in torque similar to a turbo car, as it's not the same feeling (like you say in your post). Gearbox has to be worked to get the full benefit and it's a nice 'box anyway.
2. It's a great handling car. Plenty of grip and feedback. All are fitted with an LSD. A fast road set-up (FRSU) is supposed to improve the handling immensely, I'm yet to get round to this though. Suspension can be a tad unforgiving on poor roads.
3. Cheap for the performance. 28-40mpg is common place. Less if driven very hard obviously. Honda/brembo fronts approx £50 pads & £100 discs. Servicing same as the EP3. They can use a little oil, up to a litre per 1k miles is not un-heard of, mine uses a about a litre per 6k miles. Insurance group 20.
Hope that helps
Edited by Mark-t on Tuesday 7th June 21:41
I owned a DC5 for about 14 months and very much enjoyed it. If my job weren't at risk and I didn't coincidentally get a very good offer for the car, I'd still have it now. They're a fantastic all-rounder, and suprisingly practical. They're also very reliable.
There are people here who know more than me about them, but here's what I think -
1. What is the power delivery like? Obviously turbo to N/A, ableit a VTEC engined N/A has a different delivery, but what is the VTEC like? I've heard many a things such as a noticeable torque thump when the VTEC kicks it.
Coming from an FRS, you'll notice the slower acceleration in the lower reaches, there's no doubt about it. But if you want to save money on fuel then something has to give, I guess. And these cars can still shift, albeit they're not as quick in a straight line as an RS.
Below the VTEC zone, there's plenty of "go" for normal driving, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise; stories of DOHC VTEC units being useless below the VTEC zone are rubbish, and those people clearly haven't properly lived with a VTEC unit. But, the fact is that to make good progress, you need to keep the thing alive, and in that magic area (which, trust me, is no problem or inconvenience). To me, this is the joy of these cars - it is fun and involving, and also rewarding. I've owned K20a, B18c5 and B16 engined Hondas (and driven plenty more than I've owned), and they're all great engines.
When you "hit" VTEC, there's a noticeable pick up in acceleration, noise and drama. Zipping to almost 9k rpm is a joy and these cars lap it up, they take it in their stride. Oh, and they make a great noise. Many will tell you that the K-series in the DC5 and EP3 lacks a little character compared to the B-series in the DC2, and I can see what they mean... but at the end of the day, it's still a very brilliant thing.
And the gear-change is great, too.
2. Chassis, I'm used to high powered FWD applications, but how does it cope with the power? Is it fitted with LSD as standard? If not is there a variant that is? Does it have lift off oversteer? Is it planted in the corners etc...
They all have LSDs fitted. They have loads of grip and are very planted indeed; although maybe not as playful as the preceding DC2 (but how many FWD cars are?), they are good fun on a back road, and although firm, they are reasonably compliant. Many people like to fit Eibach or Spoon lowering springs and compliment those with camber adjusters and a "fast road" geometry set up at one of the established specialists - if done right, this can improve the feedback and highten the signals/responses that the car gives back to you.
They can be coaxed into lift-off oversteer (a bit like the EP3), but it's more of a rear-end-coming-into-play thing than real LOO, I suppose. Such is the level of grip, though, that they are a bit less pivot-around-the-middle than the old DC2. The 5 is lot more modern feeling than the DC2 though, so where you gain a bit with one, you lose a bit too (depending on your viewpoint).
3. Maintenance and Consumables; Is it relatively cheap replacement parts for brakes and servicing etc? Does anyone know the insurance group?
There are loads of options for parts and consumables - nothing should be an issue. OEM brakes are very reasonable (although if I'm honest I can't remember how much) and upgrades are many and varied. Servicing is also cheap, they use a timing chain so there's no belt to mess about with. You'll have no grief with any of this.
Insurance is Group 20 in the old-style system. For a rough reference, I paid £680 at 26 years old with 6 years no claims, in a reasonable postcode with a couple of mods declared, for an annual mileage of 10k.
EDIT: Mark-t almost word-for-word beat me to it whilst I was typing... except more to the point
There are people here who know more than me about them, but here's what I think -
1. What is the power delivery like? Obviously turbo to N/A, ableit a VTEC engined N/A has a different delivery, but what is the VTEC like? I've heard many a things such as a noticeable torque thump when the VTEC kicks it.
Coming from an FRS, you'll notice the slower acceleration in the lower reaches, there's no doubt about it. But if you want to save money on fuel then something has to give, I guess. And these cars can still shift, albeit they're not as quick in a straight line as an RS.
Below the VTEC zone, there's plenty of "go" for normal driving, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise; stories of DOHC VTEC units being useless below the VTEC zone are rubbish, and those people clearly haven't properly lived with a VTEC unit. But, the fact is that to make good progress, you need to keep the thing alive, and in that magic area (which, trust me, is no problem or inconvenience). To me, this is the joy of these cars - it is fun and involving, and also rewarding. I've owned K20a, B18c5 and B16 engined Hondas (and driven plenty more than I've owned), and they're all great engines.
When you "hit" VTEC, there's a noticeable pick up in acceleration, noise and drama. Zipping to almost 9k rpm is a joy and these cars lap it up, they take it in their stride. Oh, and they make a great noise. Many will tell you that the K-series in the DC5 and EP3 lacks a little character compared to the B-series in the DC2, and I can see what they mean... but at the end of the day, it's still a very brilliant thing.
And the gear-change is great, too.
2. Chassis, I'm used to high powered FWD applications, but how does it cope with the power? Is it fitted with LSD as standard? If not is there a variant that is? Does it have lift off oversteer? Is it planted in the corners etc...
They all have LSDs fitted. They have loads of grip and are very planted indeed; although maybe not as playful as the preceding DC2 (but how many FWD cars are?), they are good fun on a back road, and although firm, they are reasonably compliant. Many people like to fit Eibach or Spoon lowering springs and compliment those with camber adjusters and a "fast road" geometry set up at one of the established specialists - if done right, this can improve the feedback and highten the signals/responses that the car gives back to you.
They can be coaxed into lift-off oversteer (a bit like the EP3), but it's more of a rear-end-coming-into-play thing than real LOO, I suppose. Such is the level of grip, though, that they are a bit less pivot-around-the-middle than the old DC2. The 5 is lot more modern feeling than the DC2 though, so where you gain a bit with one, you lose a bit too (depending on your viewpoint).
3. Maintenance and Consumables; Is it relatively cheap replacement parts for brakes and servicing etc? Does anyone know the insurance group?
There are loads of options for parts and consumables - nothing should be an issue. OEM brakes are very reasonable (although if I'm honest I can't remember how much) and upgrades are many and varied. Servicing is also cheap, they use a timing chain so there's no belt to mess about with. You'll have no grief with any of this.
Insurance is Group 20 in the old-style system. For a rough reference, I paid £680 at 26 years old with 6 years no claims, in a reasonable postcode with a couple of mods declared, for an annual mileage of 10k.
EDIT: Mark-t almost word-for-word beat me to it whilst I was typing... except more to the point
Edited by Old Gregg on Tuesday 7th June 21:47
Mark-t said:
Great post Gregg 
I forgot to mention the chain. I couldn't comment on older VTEC cars as I haven't experienced them
Thanks, and the same to you. Our posts are spookily similar considering they were being typed at the same time.I forgot to mention the chain. I couldn't comment on older VTEC cars as I haven't experienced them
Edited by Mark-t on Tuesday 7th June 21:52
Mark-t said:
Also O.P, have you looked at the FD2 Civic?
I will have one of those one day 
Some good advice from people so far.
Like said above, SVA imports have a rather bad rep. Id try and maybe get a test drive with them, but then go and buy a car elsewhere lol. There are plenty of good one's on the DC5 owners club.
Totally agree with everything said, and you should get much better MPG than the RS and cheaper to run. On my current tank of fuel ive done 340 miles and still got 30 miles left before i need to fill up, was 1 long motorway journey though with a bit of VTEC.
They are quite harsh on standard suspension, so i always read, mine came with teins and now has Eibach's ,really does depend on the road surfaces around you. Make sure you buy one with decent tyres, and obviously check the oil, the engine can use a fair bit, so needs regular checking/topping up.
Insurance should be ok if you use a specialist and don't live in moss side. heh.
Oh and also don't let the rubbish about VTEC engines sway you. Of course all the power is in the VTEC, but at lower revs, there is still ample power for overtaking, etc, it really pisses me off when people talk about a Honda as if you need to VTEC it everywhere just to make progress, it's a load of rubbish. It's going to be different from a RS, only you know if you will like it heh. All i no is wringing it's neck out to 8600rpm is a lot of fun.
Brakes are indeed very cheap compared to the RS id imagine lol, OEM discs 110, pads are 50quid, though id personally say get some good aftermarket pads with braided hoses, makes a hell of a difference, the OEM discs are pretty dam good, and the calipers aren't shy.
Boot is massive.
You will notice the difference in weight id imagine in the corners and when braking compared to a RS though ive never driven a RS so can't say for sure. You should love a DC5 on track.
The interior isn't a patch on the RS, but the seats are excellent and IMO better than the RS seats though ive only sat in them for a few mins. It is a 10 year old jap car afterall, heh.
Overall it's a great allrounder IMO though iam biased.
Like said above, SVA imports have a rather bad rep. Id try and maybe get a test drive with them, but then go and buy a car elsewhere lol. There are plenty of good one's on the DC5 owners club.
Totally agree with everything said, and you should get much better MPG than the RS and cheaper to run. On my current tank of fuel ive done 340 miles and still got 30 miles left before i need to fill up, was 1 long motorway journey though with a bit of VTEC.
They are quite harsh on standard suspension, so i always read, mine came with teins and now has Eibach's ,really does depend on the road surfaces around you. Make sure you buy one with decent tyres, and obviously check the oil, the engine can use a fair bit, so needs regular checking/topping up.
Insurance should be ok if you use a specialist and don't live in moss side. heh.
Oh and also don't let the rubbish about VTEC engines sway you. Of course all the power is in the VTEC, but at lower revs, there is still ample power for overtaking, etc, it really pisses me off when people talk about a Honda as if you need to VTEC it everywhere just to make progress, it's a load of rubbish. It's going to be different from a RS, only you know if you will like it heh. All i no is wringing it's neck out to 8600rpm is a lot of fun.
Brakes are indeed very cheap compared to the RS id imagine lol, OEM discs 110, pads are 50quid, though id personally say get some good aftermarket pads with braided hoses, makes a hell of a difference, the OEM discs are pretty dam good, and the calipers aren't shy.
Boot is massive.
You will notice the difference in weight id imagine in the corners and when braking compared to a RS though ive never driven a RS so can't say for sure. You should love a DC5 on track.
The interior isn't a patch on the RS, but the seats are excellent and IMO better than the RS seats though ive only sat in them for a few mins. It is a 10 year old jap car afterall, heh.
Overall it's a great allrounder IMO though iam biased.
Edited by Grovsie26 on Saturday 11th June 23:39
Grovsie26 said:
Insurance should be ok if you use a specialist and don't live in moss side. heh.
The interior isn't a patch on the RS, but the seats are excellent and IMO better than the RS seats though ive only sat in them for a few mins. It is a 10 year old jap car afterall, heh.
On the insurance side, what company are you with and/or any recommendations for specialists?The interior isn't a patch on the RS, but the seats are excellent and IMO better than the RS seats though ive only sat in them for a few mins. It is a 10 year old jap car afterall, heh.
Edited by Grovsie26 on Saturday 11th June 23:39
As for the interior, i realise it is a 10year old car, however how is the build quality? Many rattles etc or generally well put together like the usual Hondas?
Im with A-Plan, by far the best i could get, im 27 with a few mods declared and 3 years NCB and im paying £770. Id also try Chris Knott and Sky, i was with both for a year, heh.
IMO the interior is decent enough, i had a CTR EP3 and it's nicer inside than one of those, the OEM jap stereo is crap though as it won't pick up most radio, so a lot have aftermarket stereo's in, and some are crap, mine was so i put in a Kenwood DNX 5250 with Sat Nav etc. Like i said the seats really are excellent, lovely material, and they really hold you tight, but if your on the large side they might be a tad uncomfortable, hehe. All have A/C, and there is a C-Pack which includes electric folding mirrors, privacy glass at the back and a rear wiper, some also come with a push start engine button and rear parcel shelf. Mine doesn't rattle, my EP3 didn't either, but some people say there's do. All in all there's nothing really to complain about in the inside for the age and type of car it is.
Last week i drove 280 miles to cornwall and the same back again and it was fine, with me, my sister and my little boy in the back. It's much more comfy than say a DC2, and road noise isn't to bad at all.
If you were near me id take you out for a spin, heh.
IMO the interior is decent enough, i had a CTR EP3 and it's nicer inside than one of those, the OEM jap stereo is crap though as it won't pick up most radio, so a lot have aftermarket stereo's in, and some are crap, mine was so i put in a Kenwood DNX 5250 with Sat Nav etc. Like i said the seats really are excellent, lovely material, and they really hold you tight, but if your on the large side they might be a tad uncomfortable, hehe. All have A/C, and there is a C-Pack which includes electric folding mirrors, privacy glass at the back and a rear wiper, some also come with a push start engine button and rear parcel shelf. Mine doesn't rattle, my EP3 didn't either, but some people say there's do. All in all there's nothing really to complain about in the inside for the age and type of car it is.
Last week i drove 280 miles to cornwall and the same back again and it was fine, with me, my sister and my little boy in the back. It's much more comfy than say a DC2, and road noise isn't to bad at all.
If you were near me id take you out for a spin, heh.
Had my DC5 for a couple of months now and I absoloutely love it!! I went from an EP3 Civic Type R last February to a 290bhp Astra VXR, 12 months after that I'm back in another Honda and not even close to missing the extra 70bhp and stupid amount of torue. Currently getting arounf 30-35mpg with mixed driving, obviously going for a blast on full chat brinds that down to more like 21-22 but it's worth it. Handling wise the standard car is spot on, but will be upgrading to eibach/spoon springs and FRSU hopefully very soon.
Buy one, you won't regret it.
Buy one, you won't regret it.
Personally i would much prefer a mk1 focus RS. Blaspheme in here I`m sure as i have only just notcied this is the Honda forum.
I think you need to drive it the integra and make up your own mind if you like it or not, but if you do go to SVA imports I think you will have a hard time staying away from the evos and imprezas which are similar money and imo much more interesting.
Test drives are your best bet.
I think you need to drive it the integra and make up your own mind if you like it or not, but if you do go to SVA imports I think you will have a hard time staying away from the evos and imprezas which are similar money and imo much more interesting.
Test drives are your best bet.
rb5230 said:
Personally i would much prefer a mk1 focus RS. Blaspheme in here I`m sure as i have only just notcied this is the Honda forum.
I think you need to drive it the integra and make up your own mind if you like it or not, but if you do go to SVA imports I think you will have a hard time staying away from the evos and imprezas which are similar money and imo much more interesting.
Test drives are your best bet.
I looked at Impreza's a while ago, even took an STI Blob eye for a test drive. And running costs aside, I'd rather have the Integra, it's just more fun and raw to drive. The Impreza didn't entertain or excite me on any level, it was just ok. The DC5 might not be as quick cross country but it certainly won't be that far behind if it's driven well.I think you need to drive it the integra and make up your own mind if you like it or not, but if you do go to SVA imports I think you will have a hard time staying away from the evos and imprezas which are similar money and imo much more interesting.
Test drives are your best bet.
S18DMW said:
I looked at Impreza's a while ago, even took an STI Blob eye for a test drive. And running costs aside, I'd rather have the Integra, it's just more fun and raw to drive.
Well you picked a soft one, try a classic like they have at sva, totally different and much more raw than even the integra.Drove an old WRX Import a while ago, still didn't do anything for me. Impreza's are just a boring car to drive. There's no point where you think you've pushed it to far and you might not get round the corner. Fast yes. Fun no. Same as pretty much all turbocharged cars. N/A will always be more fun because you have to scream it.
S18DMW said:
Drove an old WRX Import a while ago, still didn't do anything for me. Impreza's are just a boring car to drive. There's no point where you think you've pushed it to far and you might not get round the corner. Fast yes. Fun no. Same as pretty much all turbocharged cars. N/A will always be more fun because you have to scream it.
It would seem you have totally the opposite opinion to me then, i hate having to thrash a car until it sounds like it is about to break, i much prefer turbo torquey power delivery, it just feels so much stronger. I dont know how you think Imprezas are boring to drive, perhaps you didnt get time to get to grips with it if you just took it for a quick spin as there are plenty of occasions where people have taken it too far or have thought they did but managed to control it, i suppose this shows how little time you have spent driving one.
There is a reason they are universally highly regarded, and not just for being fast. In fact a couple of them along with an evo or 2 got in evo magazines top 100 drivers cars of all time test and for good reason, as did the dc2, I didnt see the dc5 there though.
Love to see you try this in an integra:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zYZ_zItA1Y
Edited by rb5230 on Friday 17th June 17:43
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