Disappointing Civic Type R test drive
Discussion
Red 4 said:
Try a Focus ST (I've had one of those too and preferred it) or a Renaultsport Megane.
+1Admitted i'm extremely biased because I actually picked the ST over the competition, buy its a great cruiser, enough torque off boost and decent kick when it starts singing. I found the Civic too 'uncompromising', it was great at what it did, but it would just not settle down when you wanted to pootle about.
The Megane RS is a good compromise between the two.
I don't care what anyone else says, that 5 pot noise is the best thing you'll hear from a hot hatch (other than the Clio V6).
Pick a 5 door in black, white or red and you've got a real subtle motor. Your biggest problem may be finding an unspoiled one.
vixen1700 said:
Pixelpeep said:
where do you work?
Cambridge, so it's a combination of nice twisty bits and a stretch of quick motorway. A nice EP3 commute. 
Speed humps, pot holes and ridges + type R = shattered spine and unhappy me.
Pixelpeep said:
Yeh.. mine was stop start romford-barking averaging 8mph. - road conditions in east london are poor at best, but at least there is plenty of spare tarmac to make the speed humps.
Speed humps, pot holes and ridges + type R = shattered spine and unhappy me.
I hate driving down to Leytonstone to see my mum just because of the state of the roads and the speed bumps. Speed humps, pot holes and ridges + type R = shattered spine and unhappy me.
Pixelpeep said:
Yeh.. mine was stop start romford-barking averaging 8mph. - road conditions in east london are poor at best, but at least there is plenty of spare tarmac to make the speed humps.
Screw that, wrong car for the job, IMO. When I bought mine, my commute was 20 miles of dual carriageway and B-road. I think if I had your commute I would give up and buy an automatic diesel with good seats and soft suspension.otolith said:
Pixelpeep said:
Yeh.. mine was stop start romford-barking averaging 8mph. - road conditions in east london are poor at best, but at least there is plenty of spare tarmac to make the speed humps.
Screw that, wrong car for the job, IMO. When I bought mine, my commute was 20 miles of dual carriageway and B-road. I think if I had your commute I would give up and buy an automatic diesel with good seats and soft suspension.Sold it a year in, REALLY didn't want to but as you said, it wasn't the right tool for the job
for the record a diesel would have also been the wrong choice for 95% start stop town driving.
We bought a cheap 1.3 KA.
9 months later was made redundant. No Job, no type-R and living off the cash from the type-R sale. Was a dark time
otolith said:
Sounds grim, hopefully all in the past now. Personally, I'd get a diesel because I would want an automatic, and I would resent the running costs of sitting in traffic with a big enough petrol engine to play nicely with an auto.
on average a diesel in town works out more expensive to run than a small petrol car, especially a diesel auto.you only claw back an advantage when doing motorway miles/speeds. which i wasn't
Ive had my EP3 since February and use it as a daily driver. It's completely fine if you take it for what it is (a high revving hot hatch for the B-roads). Suspension is harsh at times but I didnt buy a type-R for soft suspension. It does take a bit of getting used to but I see it as a perfectly viable allrounder provided you dont want a sports hatch with an emphasis on comfort. Overtaking honestly isnt much of an issue, just drop a gear if needed. Most of the time I dont need to though. You definitely need to treat it differently to something like a Golf GTI.
KarlMac said:
Red 4 said:
Try a Focus ST (I've had one of those too and preferred it) or a Renaultsport Megane.
+1Admitted i'm extremely biased because I actually picked the ST over the competition, buy its a great cruiser, enough torque off boost and decent kick when it starts singing. I found the Civic too 'uncompromising', it was great at what it did, but it would just not settle down when you wanted to pootle about.
Alot of people told me the ST would be much more compliant than the EP3 type R. In my experience (owned 2 EP3,FN2 and an ST-3) the ST also had pretty hard suspension, accompanied with numerous rattles! It was a low miles dealer car too. The leather recaros were lovely though and probably made the ST easier to live with. One comment though the ST always felt quite 'big' and not that nimble. The heavy 5 pot probably influenced the way it drove. I came from an EP3 which felt lots more chuckable. The ST is more of a cruiser IMHO.
otolith said:
Sounds grim, hopefully all in the past now. Personally, I'd get a diesel because I would want an automatic, and I would resent the running costs of sitting in traffic with a big enough petrol engine to play nicely with an auto.
Yep, although auto diesel is 
, unless you have a Johnny car.Me, I stand what is apparently the Ollie Reid of hot hatches (although I seem to do a mite better on the MPG front than your average bear).
davey68 said:
Alot of people told me the ST would be much more compliant than the EP3 type R. In my experience (owned 2 EP3,FN2 and an ST-3) the ST also had pretty hard suspension, accompanied with numerous rattles! It was a low miles dealer car too. The leather recaros were lovely though and probably made the ST easier to live with. One comment though the ST always felt quite 'big' and not that nimble. The heavy 5 pot probably influenced the way it drove. I came from an EP3 which felt lots more chuckable. The ST is more of a cruiser IMHO.
Mine rattles & creaks a touch, but then it has had a hard life. However, the interior & drivetrain refuse to break, or even show any great hurt. Body & suspension are a touch more Tara Reid though.Honda rattled just as much and in half the real age as well. I won't go on again about relative reliability & dealers.
However, TBH, not sure how you could compare the two on the suspension front. Within their frame of reference, pretty much bookends in my experience (as they are in several other ways). I suppose I may be in a minority to a large degree but I miss the Type R suspension - hard but predictable is always better than generally pliable but somewhat hit & miss when things get towards 10.
otolith said:
Pixelpeep said:
i echo my earlier statement, in standard form it is not a good 'all round' car - which takes away the spirit of a hot hatch really doesn't it?
I found it perfectly acceptable for an all-rounder, but then it depends what you want out of a car. For most people, a base model Civic is a perfectly acceptable all-rounder, and apart from the ride quality the type-R model is at least as good in every way at doing the day to day stuff.If you buy a hot hatch because you can't live with a sports car, the EP3 is fine. If you buy one because you can't afford an Audi RS4, it isn't. I still think that's the basic division between hot hatch buyers - for the former, there are Type-Rs and Renaultsports, for the latter, Golf GTis and Audi S3s.
No sure why impoverished feeling wannabe RS4 buyers would settle for competent+ but not really soul-filled hot hatches? It isn't like either (in current-ish form) is appreciably cheaper, outside of running costs. Assuming fairly current, unless say the day to day costs are mine or greater, RS4 Vs S Vs Golf R is a no-brainer (even as not a big fan of the Meglo's empire output).
If older/cheaper and not VAG chasing, the EP3 is just as focused as many an alleged sports car & if nothing else, has a far better drivetrain than anyone has a right to expect at that price point.
Any suggested day to day pain of running a Civic R is often as not over-played IMHO, assuming you don't have a scary postcode and/or don't have a Turpin descendent/admirer as a garage.
Regards reliability and honda dealers my experience has been great. I had my first ep3 at about 4 years old. Not long after buying it private the air con compressor (or condensor I forget) failed. Took it to my local dealer expecting several hundred quid to sort. They said it's a known issue and Honda will sort it FOC. I've since run 3 more Hondas and the dealership has been excellent. Just last week needed a new O2 sensor on my S2k (engine light came on). My car has 3 mths extended warranty left on and it was done under warranty in 30 mins no hassle. Compared to many other dealers i've used Honda are pretty good. I won't name the ford dealer who tried not to give my sister the full enployee discount on a new fiesta even though she had all the pricelist etc Or the one that told my girlfriend she needed a full gearbox re-con which was sorted at local garage needing nothing more than some shims cleaned. However, please don't think im anti focus ST, not at all, really nice cars. Amazingly cheap to buy used now too. Best of all the noise of the 5 pot. Alot of people told me to mountune mine as it apparently flies after that (295lb ft torque!)
DukeDickson said:
otolith said:
Pixelpeep said:
i echo my earlier statement, in standard form it is not a good 'all round' car - which takes away the spirit of a hot hatch really doesn't it?
I found it perfectly acceptable for an all-rounder, but then it depends what you want out of a car. For most people, a base model Civic is a perfectly acceptable all-rounder, and apart from the ride quality the type-R model is at least as good in every way at doing the day to day stuff.If you buy a hot hatch because you can't live with a sports car, the EP3 is fine. If you buy one because you can't afford an Audi RS4, it isn't. I still think that's the basic division between hot hatch buyers - for the former, there are Type-Rs and Renaultsports, for the latter, Golf GTis and Audi S3s.
No sure why impoverished feeling wannabe RS4 buyers would settle for competent+ but not really soul-filled hot hatches? It isn't like either (in current-ish form) is appreciably cheaper, outside of running costs. Assuming fairly current, unless say the day to day costs are mine or greater, RS4 Vs S Vs Golf R is a no-brainer (even as not a big fan of the Meglo's empire output).
If older/cheaper and not VAG chasing, the EP3 is just as focused as many an alleged sports car & if nothing else, has a far better drivetrain than anyone has a right to expect at that price point.
Any suggested day to day pain of running a Civic R is often as not over-played IMHO, assuming you don't have a scary postcode and/or don't have a Turpin descendent/admirer as a garage.
davey68 said:
Regards reliability and honda dealers my experience has been great. I won't name the ford dealer who tried not to give my sister the full enployee discount on a new fiesta even though she had all the pricelist etc Or the one that told my girlfriend she needed a full gearbox re-con which was sorted at local garage needing nothing more than some shims cleaned.
Sadly that is not my experience of Honda dealers. I've owned a Civic Type R and a couple of S2000's.Never had a job done correctly first time (including servicing). Had an S2000 dented by them. My local Honda dealer are, unfortunately, known for being a bunch of chimps.
When I had my Focus ST the local Ford dealer were great.
ps Honda reliability isn't all it's cracked up to be. Many of the last S2000's are ticking bombs and there have been many engine failures (and some failures of replacement engines).
Red 4 said:
ps Honda reliability isn't all it's cracked up to be. Many of the last S2000's are ticking bombs and there have been many engine failures (and some failures of replacement engines).
This bit confuses me a little. I can't speak for the S2000 specifically but Honda are consistently top of the reliability charts and have been for years. Is that not the most comprehensive way of measuring reliability? Gassing Station | Honda | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff