Disappointing Civic Type R test drive
Discussion
Red 4 said:
davey68 said:
Regards reliability and honda dealers my experience has been great. I won't name the ford dealer who tried not to give my sister the full enployee discount on a new fiesta even though she had all the pricelist etc Or the one that told my girlfriend she needed a full gearbox re-con which was sorted at local garage needing nothing more than some shims cleaned.
Sadly that is not my experience of Honda dealers. I've owned a Civic Type R and a couple of S2000's.Never had a job done correctly first time (including servicing). Had an S2000 dented by them. My local Honda dealer are, unfortunately, known for being a bunch of chimps.
When I had my Focus ST the local Ford dealer were great.
ps Honda reliability isn't all it's cracked up to be. Many of the last S2000's are ticking bombs and there have been many engine failures (and some failures of replacement engines).
k I had a warranty in place).Maybe I had a 4pm Friday car but at the same time it was bought as a low mileage one owner AUC and the only other CTR owner I've actually spoken to in the flesh had problems that make the ones I had seem relatively minor.
Even when I moved it on, it had ongoing reliability issues, at only 65k.
On the other hand, aside from creaky seats (known problem, fixed under warranty but now appearing again due to hammer from an ex FB) and a bit of rear wheelarch cosmetic rust, the ST has been surprisingly solid. There are one or two other issues, but they're all down to being in six figure mileage territory & the Volvo engine feels like it would survive a nuclear winter - unstressed barn-door engineering, I guess.
Cheaper overall to run, even allowing for increased fuel costs. Dealer has a bit of cheap & cheerful feel but until recently has been totally different to their Japanenglish relatives.
Now, if only Dr Frankenstein did hot hatches
Sound's like I've been lucky with my local dealer. Can't fault em over the 4 Honda's I've had serviced there. I think main dealers all vary hugely. I know on some Porsche forum's there are some dealers highly rated (OPC leicester for one) and other's that are close to being crooked. My mate just had issues with local Audi centre, basically being 'economical with the truth' to get more work done. He caught em out thankfully. Luck of the draw which is sad.
Totally agree Red 4. I was looking at their range last week when my car was in. Not one interesting cat in the range. Also, and I know this isn't just Honda but expensive! A Jazz 1.4 Si in the showroom was £15500!! The civic models were even more ridiculous. The turbo type R will be coming in at £25k plus I imagine and the base car isn't very interesting so I won't be considering them.
davey68 said:
Sound's like I've been lucky with my local dealer. Can't fault em over the 4 Honda's I've had serviced there. I think main dealers all vary hugely. I know on some Porsche forum's there are some dealers highly rated (OPC leicester for one) and other's that are close to being crooked. My mate just had issues with local Audi centre, basically being 'economical with the truth' to get more work done. He caught em out thankfully. Luck of the draw which is sad.
Sounds like you have. Sadly I suspect all bar the few/very best tend towards this at times, no doubt driven by current financial position/targets. Possibly also a degree of laziness & a lack of care,time or even knowledge.Ford dealer is probably about level at the moment - for example, they have often passed up the opportunity to fit brake pads/discs when presented with the opportunity, but at the same time (coincidentally about the same time the car park started looking somewhat emptier) they tried for a headlight wash motor change when it was simply a blockage due to lack of use. They did also misdiagnose an ESP issue in the hope of persuading me to part with £350+ to solve it, even though it would seem that isn't the problem.
However, Honda dealer took the wee at every opportunity. On simple example is that they once tried (a decent-ish bit) not to let the car out of the garage because the tires were trashed (which they were, no doubt driven by the suspension/steering issues that resulted in the rather expensive warranty work). They wanted £50 a corner to get the YTS/apprentice boy to rag the car a couple of miles up the road to get them changed. I chanced my arm, went under my own steam to the same place & saved £200. Every time it went in for anything, something was amiss & needed rectification, yet they couldn't solve a couple of probably simple but very irritating problems in 4 visits.
havoc said:
What's the ride quality like on an ST vs the CTR and (e.g.) Golf GTi?
Sorry, only just seen this. I personally found the ST as a halfway house between the GTI and the Type R. GTi didn't feel and different to my old diesel pool car at work, just a lot faster. I drove an ST with the factory option Eibachs and that was a lot closer to the CTR.I did prefer the interior and equipment on the ST3, but thats probably because i was coming from a pre-facelift TDCi and everything felt familiar.
Main reasons I pick the ST:
- Sheffield has the worst roads. Ever. I've driven in Mombassa and that was better. The bits that don't have potholes have speed bumps.
- Dat Noise. 5 pot sounds creamy.
- Reliabilty. Other than boost solenoid there doesn't seem to be that many problems until you start tweaking them.
- I actually like the sensation of a bit understeery lump there. Reminds me of VR6s.
Oldish thread I know, but I thought I'd add my experience.
Initially I bought my EP3 about 5 years ago, from one previous owner, owned it for a few years and sold it to a friend (Decided to clear my debt). A few years later I bought it back again as I decided I wanted another and it made more sense to buy one with a history I know about.
I have thoroughly loved my 4 years owning it. I currently do a 60 mile round trip to work, half on motorways and the other half on the fosse way/B-roads, so a good mix of conditions. It is firm, but I have never fealt that it was crashy or overly uncomfortable. It's had a few minor tweaks, such as a JDM rear anti roll bar, facelift spec dampers (previously the Bilstein b12 kit before I sold it the first time), and adjustable camber arms; these few basic things and a good geo setup make a wonderful difference to its handling characteristics, and I find myself having a hoot on my daily commute.
The engine is great, I really don't understand the criticism, what's not to love about eeking out every last bhp? And the 6 speed gear box is slick and flexible. No, it's not a big capacity v8 with oodles of instant torque, but what hot hatch has? I car share into work, on occasion, in a Clio 182, and that has nothing on the EP3's engine and gearbox (not to mention the hideous interior). I've also owned a couple of Lancia Deltas, one being an Evo 2. This was obviously a fantastic car, beautiful to look at and very forgiving and soft by comparison to the EP3, but also temperamental and expensive to live with. Performance wise I didn't think much in it, though they carried it out in very different ways; the Lancia wafty and grunty, the Civic wired and high strung.
A few years back I got offered a test drive in an FN2, by a local Honda dealer. I drove there in my EP3, which gave me a good comparrison. During the test drive I immediately found the car to feel underwhelming; the engine feeling comparatively dull (probably from the increased weight and attempt to broaden the torque curve). The steering felt more responsive (I put this down to the lower profile tryes) and the brakes were better however, on chucking it around a few roundabouts, I felt the backend of the car was sluggish and unresponsive. Driving home in my own car confirmed this. It really was a joy to be back in the EP3.
As for the reliability, it's done 90k miles and apart from wear and tear, such as brake pads, its never had a fault. I've had numerous Hondas over the years, such as Integra Type R, S2000 and CRX etc (all I might add have been faultless) and the EP3 has been the most fun, practical and relatively economical (averaging 34mpg).
I now have a very young baby and am currently scouting around for a 4 door saloon, possibly a C63 or ISF, to replace the Civic. But I will always look back on my civic as a fantastic all round car.
Initially I bought my EP3 about 5 years ago, from one previous owner, owned it for a few years and sold it to a friend (Decided to clear my debt). A few years later I bought it back again as I decided I wanted another and it made more sense to buy one with a history I know about.
I have thoroughly loved my 4 years owning it. I currently do a 60 mile round trip to work, half on motorways and the other half on the fosse way/B-roads, so a good mix of conditions. It is firm, but I have never fealt that it was crashy or overly uncomfortable. It's had a few minor tweaks, such as a JDM rear anti roll bar, facelift spec dampers (previously the Bilstein b12 kit before I sold it the first time), and adjustable camber arms; these few basic things and a good geo setup make a wonderful difference to its handling characteristics, and I find myself having a hoot on my daily commute.
The engine is great, I really don't understand the criticism, what's not to love about eeking out every last bhp? And the 6 speed gear box is slick and flexible. No, it's not a big capacity v8 with oodles of instant torque, but what hot hatch has? I car share into work, on occasion, in a Clio 182, and that has nothing on the EP3's engine and gearbox (not to mention the hideous interior). I've also owned a couple of Lancia Deltas, one being an Evo 2. This was obviously a fantastic car, beautiful to look at and very forgiving and soft by comparison to the EP3, but also temperamental and expensive to live with. Performance wise I didn't think much in it, though they carried it out in very different ways; the Lancia wafty and grunty, the Civic wired and high strung.
A few years back I got offered a test drive in an FN2, by a local Honda dealer. I drove there in my EP3, which gave me a good comparrison. During the test drive I immediately found the car to feel underwhelming; the engine feeling comparatively dull (probably from the increased weight and attempt to broaden the torque curve). The steering felt more responsive (I put this down to the lower profile tryes) and the brakes were better however, on chucking it around a few roundabouts, I felt the backend of the car was sluggish and unresponsive. Driving home in my own car confirmed this. It really was a joy to be back in the EP3.
As for the reliability, it's done 90k miles and apart from wear and tear, such as brake pads, its never had a fault. I've had numerous Hondas over the years, such as Integra Type R, S2000 and CRX etc (all I might add have been faultless) and the EP3 has been the most fun, practical and relatively economical (averaging 34mpg).
I now have a very young baby and am currently scouting around for a 4 door saloon, possibly a C63 or ISF, to replace the Civic. But I will always look back on my civic as a fantastic all round car.
Edited by Cable on Friday 24th May 12:23
Edited by Cable on Friday 24th May 12:28
Cable said:
I now have a very young baby and am currently scouting around for a 4 door saloon, possibly a C63 or ISF, to replace the Civic. But I will always look back on my civic as a fantastic all round car.
Can't argue with a C63, but given your history, if you want to wind the running costs back a bit, it's definitely worth a test-drive in an FD2 - got mine 2 months ago, and while it's not as "organic" as the DC2, and it's not quite as progressive/intuitive* when really pushing on, it's a more rounded car, sounds great, is easily quicker than a DC2/EP3, and is a little bigger inside and out than an E90 saloon. My commute is similar to yours (25 miles, mix A-roads, dual-carriageway, town, B-roads), and it's only on the bumpiest of the B-road sections where you feel you've got to rein yourself in.* Mine is running AST springs/dampers, which was the Litchfield preferred set-up. Owners club now suggests OEM all-round with Koni rear dampers...I'm going to try that out soon as the OE springs are progressive and also their rates are lower. If you can, don't test-drive a car on all-OE suspension - it's designed for Jap-spec roads and doesn't work on UK tarmac...mainly rear dampers being massively stiff.
havoc said:
Can't argue with a C63, but given your history, if you want to wind the running costs back a bit, it's definitely worth a test-drive in an FD2 - got mine 2 months ago, and while it's not as "organic" as the DC2, and it's not quite as progressive/intuitive* when really pushing on, it's a more rounded car, sounds great, is easily quicker than a DC2/EP3, and is a little bigger inside and out than an E90 saloon. My commute is similar to yours (25 miles, mix A-roads, dual-carriageway, town, B-roads), and it's only on the bumpiest of the B-road sections where you feel you've got to rein yourself in.
* Mine is running AST springs/dampers, which was the Litchfield preferred set-up. Owners club now suggests OEM all-round with Koni rear dampers...I'm going to try that out soon as the OE springs are progressive and also their rates are lower. If you can, don't test-drive a car on all-OE suspension - it's designed for Jap-spec roads and doesn't work on UK tarmac...mainly rear dampers being massively stiff.
Cheers for that, I have been tempted by the FD2, as I know it is a massively capable car, however I really need to scratch the V8 itch, and nothing should scratch it more thoroughly than a C63 :P* Mine is running AST springs/dampers, which was the Litchfield preferred set-up. Owners club now suggests OEM all-round with Koni rear dampers...I'm going to try that out soon as the OE springs are progressive and also their rates are lower. If you can, don't test-drive a car on all-OE suspension - it's designed for Jap-spec roads and doesn't work on UK tarmac...mainly rear dampers being massively stiff.
Fortunately for me, my department is moving from Gaydon to Coventry soon, so I will be cutting my journey in half, hence being able to afford to run the V8
Has anybody tried Bilsteins for the FD2 (if they do them)? They were fantastic and much more suited to the UK roads when fitted on my EP3.
Cable said:
Cheers for that, I have been tempted by the FD2, as I know it is a massively capable car, however I really need to scratch the V8 itch, and nothing should scratch it more thoroughly than a C63 :P
Fortunately for me, my department is moving from Gaydon to Coventry soon, so I will be cutting my journey in half, hence being able to afford to run the V8
Has anybody tried Bilsteins for the FD2 (if they do them)? They were fantastic and much more suited to the UK roads when fitted on my EP3.
I take it you work for Jag/Land Rover then?Fortunately for me, my department is moving from Gaydon to Coventry soon, so I will be cutting my journey in half, hence being able to afford to run the V8
Has anybody tried Bilsteins for the FD2 (if they do them)? They were fantastic and much more suited to the UK roads when fitted on my EP3.
Love EP3's looking to get one at the end of the year
I have to defend the FN2 it's not perfect for everyday life but it has plenty of space and the steering and gear change is superb. It's not for the faint hearted but a B road thrash is what this car is all about.sure it shakes and rattles but it screams to 9000rpm and is reliable even when abused.
Cable said:
Oldish thread I know, but I thought I'd add my experience.
Initially I bought my EP3 about 5 years ago, from one previous owner, owned it for a few years and sold it to a friend (Decided to clear my debt). A few years later I bought it back again as I decided I wanted another and it made more sense to buy one with a history I know about.
I have thoroughly loved my 4 years owning it. I currently do a 60 mile round trip to work, half on motorways and the other half on the fosse way/B-roads, so a good mix of conditions. It is firm, but I have never fealt that it was crashy or overly uncomfortable. It's had a few minor tweaks, such as a JDM rear anti roll bar, facelift spec dampers (previously the Bilstein b12 kit before I sold it the first time), and adjustable camber arms; these few basic things and a good geo setup make a wonderful difference to its handling characteristics, and I find myself having a hoot on my daily commute.
The engine is great, I really don't understand the criticism, what's not to love about eeking out every last bhp? And the 6 speed gear box is slick and flexible. No, it's not a big capacity v8 with oodles of instant torque, but what hot hatch has? I car share into work, on occasion, in a Clio 182, and that has nothing on the EP3's engine and gearbox (not to mention the hideous interior). I've also owned a couple of Lancia Deltas, one being an Evo 2. This was obviously a fantastic car, beautiful to look at and very forgiving and soft by comparison to the EP3, but also temperamental and expensive to live with. Performance wise I didn't think much in it, though they carried it out in very different ways; the Lancia wafty and grunty, the Civic wired and high strung.
A few years back I got offered a test drive in an FN2, by a local Honda dealer. I drove there in my EP3, which gave me a good comparrison. During the test drive I immediately found the car to feel underwhelming; the engine feeling comparatively dull (probably from the increased weight and attempt to broaden the torque curve). The steering felt more responsive (I put this down to the lower profile tryes) and the brakes were better however, on chucking it around a few roundabouts, I felt the backend of the car was sluggish and unresponsive. Driving home in my own car confirmed this. It really was a joy to be back in the EP3.
As for the reliability, it's done 90k miles and apart from wear and tear, such as brake pads, its never had a fault. I've had numerous Hondas over the years, such as Integra Type R, S2000 and CRX etc (all I might add have been faultless) and the EP3 has been the most fun, practical and relatively economical (averaging 34mpg).
I now have a very young baby and am currently scouting around for a 4 door saloon, possibly a C63 or ISF, to replace the Civic. But I will always look back on my civic as a fantastic all round car.
i sort of know what you mean BUT the FN2 definately grows on you.I was slightly underwhelmed on my first test drive but after a few goes i realised it hides its speed a bit and is more planted than the ep3, also steers better and sounds nicer in vtec. I wouldn't go back to an ep3 but can understand someone keeping their ep3 over getting an FN2...nice to have the choice..!! Initially I bought my EP3 about 5 years ago, from one previous owner, owned it for a few years and sold it to a friend (Decided to clear my debt). A few years later I bought it back again as I decided I wanted another and it made more sense to buy one with a history I know about.
I have thoroughly loved my 4 years owning it. I currently do a 60 mile round trip to work, half on motorways and the other half on the fosse way/B-roads, so a good mix of conditions. It is firm, but I have never fealt that it was crashy or overly uncomfortable. It's had a few minor tweaks, such as a JDM rear anti roll bar, facelift spec dampers (previously the Bilstein b12 kit before I sold it the first time), and adjustable camber arms; these few basic things and a good geo setup make a wonderful difference to its handling characteristics, and I find myself having a hoot on my daily commute.
The engine is great, I really don't understand the criticism, what's not to love about eeking out every last bhp? And the 6 speed gear box is slick and flexible. No, it's not a big capacity v8 with oodles of instant torque, but what hot hatch has? I car share into work, on occasion, in a Clio 182, and that has nothing on the EP3's engine and gearbox (not to mention the hideous interior). I've also owned a couple of Lancia Deltas, one being an Evo 2. This was obviously a fantastic car, beautiful to look at and very forgiving and soft by comparison to the EP3, but also temperamental and expensive to live with. Performance wise I didn't think much in it, though they carried it out in very different ways; the Lancia wafty and grunty, the Civic wired and high strung.
A few years back I got offered a test drive in an FN2, by a local Honda dealer. I drove there in my EP3, which gave me a good comparrison. During the test drive I immediately found the car to feel underwhelming; the engine feeling comparatively dull (probably from the increased weight and attempt to broaden the torque curve). The steering felt more responsive (I put this down to the lower profile tryes) and the brakes were better however, on chucking it around a few roundabouts, I felt the backend of the car was sluggish and unresponsive. Driving home in my own car confirmed this. It really was a joy to be back in the EP3.
As for the reliability, it's done 90k miles and apart from wear and tear, such as brake pads, its never had a fault. I've had numerous Hondas over the years, such as Integra Type R, S2000 and CRX etc (all I might add have been faultless) and the EP3 has been the most fun, practical and relatively economical (averaging 34mpg).
I now have a very young baby and am currently scouting around for a 4 door saloon, possibly a C63 or ISF, to replace the Civic. But I will always look back on my civic as a fantastic all round car.
Edited by Cable on Friday 24th May 12:23
Edited by Cable on Friday 24th May 12:28
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