Good time to buy a genuine, un-modified EP3 Civic type R?

Good time to buy a genuine, un-modified EP3 Civic type R?

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GreenArrow

Original Poster:

3,551 posts

116 months

Saturday 20th June 2015
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With all the ballyhoo going on about the new Type R, just wondering if the arrival of the new car will help residuals of the EP3 model...I cant help thinking that this car is destined for classic status and just look at what is happening with Mk2 Golf GTI/205 GTI prices right now! The new car will inevitably lead to some coverage of the n/a models in the motoring press, as people realise that these high revving n/a cars won't be seen ever again in the hot hatch world. A reasonable mileage EP3 appeals to me greatly...are they fairly easy to own and run?

Martin_Hx

3,951 posts

197 months

Saturday 20th June 2015
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Had mine since 2007, first year of its life owned by Honda UK. On about 55k miles now.

Regards costs it's not cost anything more than fuel and tyres with 1 set of front pads. The key is definitely finding a well looked after standard one which may be harder than you think!

I never want to get rid of mine even if I do get a replacement, I'd rather stash it in a garage.

Paul671

335 posts

206 months

Saturday 20th June 2015
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I don't think so, they have an image problem and there not that special really, just cheap, fun and reliable.
In my opinion if you have good EP3 money you should probably get yourself an Integra, they are just better, rarer and have a cult following.
An EK9 would also be a pretty good bet at the moment.


spudgun GB

461 posts

167 months

Sunday 21st June 2015
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I have done the same as you Greenarrow, I bought a low mileage, totally stock one last year with full Honda service history and 40,000 miles on the clock.
Paul is right about the image problem with them, no question about that, but nearly all the classics you mentioned that are now worth unbelievable money had exactly the same problems back in there day and were plentiful at the time. You may have to be in it for the long haul though as these are now around 25 years old now and the civic is going to be around 10. You get the idea.
Living with mine though is very good. It's a second car and is plenty fast enough for me, totally stock. If you fancy it go for it but I don't see a big g profit over night.

integra1799

139 posts

150 months

Monday 22nd June 2015
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You would probably be better off buying yourself a nice low mileage Integra DC5 Type R. There's not a large number on the road in the uk and there seems to be less and less nice unmolested one's on the road now. The value's seem to be holding steady and they are better equipped and the more focused of the two cars.

All down to personal preference I guess.

GreenArrow

Original Poster:

3,551 posts

116 months

Sunday 28th June 2015
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..The image problem is down to the EP3 being in that 10-15 year old age bracket now, where it is available to younger boy racers. All hot hatches go through this phase, the 205 GTI certainly did and the mK2 GTI Golf. Those are both classics. As for the car not being special I disagree. I was watching some old 5th gear episodes the other day and Tiff, Vicki etc rated the Civic as the best hot hatch of its day....it was the first affordable hot hatch to get a 0-100 time in the mid to high teens and a top speed of over 140....so eventually when early naughties hot hatches become sort after and they will do, I think the Civic will be one that people want.

spudgun GB

461 posts

167 months

Monday 29th June 2015
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GreenArrow said:
..The image problem is down to the EP3 being in that 10-15 year old age bracket now, where it is available to younger boy racers. All hot hatches go through this phase, the 205 GTI certainly did and the mK2 GTI Golf. Those are both classics. As for the car not being special I disagree. I was watching some old 5th gear episodes the other day and Tiff, Vicki etc rated the Civic as the best hot hatch of its day....it was the first affordable hot hatch to get a 0-100 time in the mid to high teens and a top speed of over 140....so eventually when early naughties hot hatches become sort after and they will do, I think the Civic will be one that people want.
Were obviously of a similar mind set. The civic does have a unique party piece which is the engine and gearbox and in the future when the lads have grown up and got some spare cash behind them, they will revisit in sure.
I saw a shocker of dc5 yesterday. Lowered to within an inch of its life and carbon winglets on the front bumper that could have been used for clearing snow. Just looked rubbish.

GreenArrow

Original Poster:

3,551 posts

116 months

Tuesday 30th June 2015
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Absolutely. Its all about nostalgia. The 205 GTI and Golf GTI are making huge money now because they were the best sellers and top dogs of the 1980s. The Civic Type R was THE hot hatch to own in the early 00s and when people who aspired to own one then or did actually own one reach their 40s, in about 10 years from now, I reckon it will assume classic status....we bought a 205 GTI 1.9 for £1100 in 2003 when 205s were in their banger phase and sold it last year (needing a fair bit of TLC) for £2250....think that proves my point!

With all new Type Rs being turbos, I really do think the n/a Type Rs are gonna become more and more sort after.

dave4959

173 posts

191 months

Tuesday 30th June 2015
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I've had mine 3.5 years. Can't think of anything to replace it with, without spending a lot more money or increasing the running costs. E46 m3 is most likely choice. But it's hard justifying it as I've only done 500 miles in it in the last 3 months.
. Mines a premier edition with air con standard. 76k with full honda service history. I guess it's only worth around 4k but it seems to have stayed at that value for the last year or so.
I'm keeping mine for the foreseeable future, it hasn't cost me anything (touch wood) other than brakes tyres etc in all the time I've had it. I still enjoy driving it. I think the looked after standard ones won't lose much money but I can't see them rising. Good if they did though

TheLordJohn

5,746 posts

145 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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Personally think that the EP3 will be worth more in the future, but I think you'd be better off with S2000, EK9 or UKDM DC2 first. They'll rise more than the EP3 (in that order).
The S2000 is already a modern classic and prices have started rising.

kingston12

5,473 posts

156 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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dave4959 said:
I've had mine 3.5 years. Can't think of anything to replace it with, without spending a lot more money or increasing the running costs. E46 m3 is most likely choice. But it's hard justifying it as I've only done 500 miles in it in the last 3 months.
. Mines a premier edition with air con standard. 76k with full honda service history. I guess it's only worth around 4k but it seems to have stayed at that value for the last year or so.
I'm keeping mine for the foreseeable future, it hasn't cost me anything (touch wood) other than brakes tyres etc in all the time I've had it. I still enjoy driving it. I think the looked after standard ones won't lose much money but I can't see them rising. Good if they did though
Agreed. Even if they don't go up in value that quickly, the low rate of depreciation and running costs are exceptional.

I bought an 04 with A/C brand new for £16k and sold it 6.5 years later for £7k. Admittedly, the low mileage and condition helped me get a good-ish price, but I think that under £1.5k depreciation a year on a brand new car is pretty good, and for a standard hatch like a Civic to hold anything close to 50% of it's new value after 6.5 years is exceptional.

Given that the cheapest 2004 in the classifieds at the moment with less than 100k miles is £4.5k, it would appear that depreciation has slowed even further, and I'd have only paid just over £1k a year in depreciation if I sold mine for that now.At 11 years old, the car would still be holding almost 30% of it's new price.

Given that very little seems to go wrong with them, the EP3 has got to be one of the cheapest ways to get into a reasonably performing car.

spudgun GB

461 posts

167 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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kingston12 said:
Agreed. Even if they don't go up in value that quickly, the low rate of depreciation and running costs are exceptional.

I bought an 04 with A/C brand new for £16k and sold it 6.5 years later for £7k. Admittedly, the low mileage and condition helped me get a good-ish price, but I think that under £1.5k depreciation a year on a brand new car is pretty good, and for a standard hatch like a Civic to hold anything close to 50% of it's new value after 6.5 years is exceptional.

Given that the cheapest 2004 in the classifieds at the moment with less than 100k miles is £4.5k, it would appear that depreciation has slowed even further, and I'd have only paid just over £1k a year in depreciation if I sold mine for that now.At 11 years old, the car would still be holding almost 30% of it's new price.

Given that very little seems to go wrong with them, the EP3 has got to be one of the cheapest ways to get into a reasonably performing car.
I have had a look and it doesn't seem like they have lost much in the last 12 months. I paid £6000 private for mine from a family friend who had it from new. Its like a 1 year old car rather than 10 year old one. Full honda history, 39000 miles and a premier edition to boot.
They seem to want the same money now as last year for he same car, so its either bottoming out or depreciation is very slow indeed.

They used my car for the recent Civic price watch article and that says the same, so it must be true smile

Article here

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-japanesecars/ho...

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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Hmm, not sure about the non-UK models. They have and will retain a cult following, but I'm not sure they will ever get the sort of nostalgia driven popularity of cars like the Golf or 205. The EK9 in particular, a shape most people will have no positive recollection of, if you don't know better it's just a dull old banger.

I think you'll still have to wait a long time for EP3 prices to climb, if they ever do.

kingston12

5,473 posts

156 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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otolith said:
Hmm, not sure about the non-UK models. They have and will retain a cult following, but I'm not sure they will ever get the sort of nostalgia driven popularity of cars like the Golf or 205. The EK9 in particular, a shape most people will have no positive recollection of, if you don't know better it's just a dull old banger.

I think you'll still have to wait a long time for EP3 prices to climb, if they ever do.
I'd normally agree, but the nostalgia thing is going crazy at the moment, and nothing seems totally immune. Wasn't there a story on PH a while ago about a bog standard Austin Maestro going for silly money? That is a car that people will only have bad memories of if they haven't blocked it out totally.

Some of the Type-Rs might not be exactly iconic, but they have the advantage of being generally quite reliable. If I chose to drive a 20 year old car, I'd probably be happy with a Honda.

I think that the nostalgia thing has gone a bit too far. Two years ago, I looked to buy my own childhood icon - a Porsche 944 Turbo. They were £6k back then for a good one, but I didn't buy because I was a bit frightened of the possibility of big bills.

Now, they seem to be changing hands for about 3 times that. That makes a 1989 944 Turbo about the same price as a 2009 Boxster S. The 944 may be rarer and cooler, but the Boxster is better in every other department and twenty years younger.

The EP3 seems superb value to me at £5k for a good one, but if that did go up to £15k I think I'd choose something else.

kingston12

5,473 posts

156 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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spudgun GB said:
I have had a look and it doesn't seem like they have lost much in the last 12 months. I paid £6000 private for mine from a family friend who had it from new. Its like a 1 year old car rather than 10 year old one. Full honda history, 39000 miles and a premier edition to boot.
They seem to want the same money now as last year for he same car, so its either bottoming out or depreciation is very slow indeed.

They used my car for the recent Civic price watch article and that says the same, so it must be true smile

Article here

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-japanesecars/ho...
Yours looks great, seems a good buy. I really like the Cosmic Grey on these. When I ordered mine originally, I chose Cosmic, but then changed my mind and went for black. Still not sure if that was the right choice!

It really sounds as though depreciation has stalled. My car was not a premier, but had under 30k miles, AC, full Honda service history and was pretty much mint. I sold that for £7k almost FIVE years ago! Perhaps I could have got a bit more, but I seem to remember the market being flooded at the time and my price was nearer the top end anyway. A bit of a bargain for the guy who bought it.

Martin_Hx

3,951 posts

197 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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There is a yearly culling of these cars when winter comes around (and many get crashed all year round) so it wont be long before there are not many left and of those that are left, not many will be standard and good condition. There are a lot of chaved/unloved dogs around when it comes top EP3'!

Gratuitous shot of my EP3!


Paul671

335 posts

206 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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There are about 14000 EP3's left and they are built to last, hardly rare.

For comparison there are about 700 DC2's, 300 DC5's and around 100 EK9's left. They are genuinely rare, excellent and iconic cars that have already started appreciating (maybe not the DC5 just yet), all can be had for clean facelift EP3 money.


otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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Limited future classic market, though, because they were only ever cult cars. It's not like every teenager drooled over them, only those in the know.

TomS09

194 posts

187 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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Paul671 said:
There are about 14000 EP3's left and they are built to last, hardly rare.

For comparison there are about 700 DC2's, 300 DC5's and around 100 EK9's left. They are genuinely rare, excellent and iconic cars that have already started appreciating (maybe not the DC5 just yet), all can be had for clean facelift EP3 money.
Accord Type-Rs are getting pretty thin on the ground now too, think I'll probably keep hold of mine.

Paul671

335 posts

206 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
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otolith said:
Limited future classic market, though, because they were only ever cult cars. It's not like every teenager drooled over them, only those in the know.
Your probably right, I feel like the fast Japanese cars of the 90's are every bit as important/worthy of classic status as a Cosworth, Quattro or GTi but they seem to have been overlooked.

For example, Escort Cosworths are £40-50k now while a Celica GT4 can be had for peanuts.
The Ford only won 8 rallies, The Celica won 30 plus several driver and manufacturer championships (it's also a better car in nearly every way imo).
I guess it's like you say, one is cult the other is bedroom poster material.
I honestly don't think the EP3 is either yet.