Pre and post 2004 S2000 handlingsi
Discussion
..so continuing my research into possible Honda S2000 ownership (or 350z, or RX-8, as evidenced by all my posts on PH recently!) I am interested in feedback on how the earlier smaller wheeled S2000 handles compared with the one on 17 inch wheels which I think arrived in 2004. Is the later car less twitchy and less likely to spit you off the road?
I really fancy an S2000, always have, but the reputation for taking no prisoners puts me off a bit. I understand the later cars had suspension revisions but wondered how successful these were in making a friendlier car. Coming from an MX-5, which is pretty friendly in the wet and allows a fair amount of liberties, I don't want something which will put me in a ditch on my first keen drive on wet roads!!
I really fancy an S2000, always have, but the reputation for taking no prisoners puts me off a bit. I understand the later cars had suspension revisions but wondered how successful these were in making a friendlier car. Coming from an MX-5, which is pretty friendly in the wet and allows a fair amount of liberties, I don't want something which will put me in a ditch on my first keen drive on wet roads!!
There's a really good model revision guide here:
http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/755380-s2000-model...
Get a well looked after one where the suspension bolts have been sorted and geometry done properly and it shouldn't spit you into a ditch
http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/755380-s2000-model...
Get a well looked after one where the suspension bolts have been sorted and geometry done properly and it shouldn't spit you into a ditch
I drive a 2004 facelift, and I nearly binned it on day 1. 360 down the middle of a back road taking up both lanes. I hit a damp patch in the middle of a dry road while not even booting it. Scared the life into me and made me respect the car from day 1.
A few weeks later I put 4 Uniroyal Rainsport 3's on it and now I struggle to get sideways even when I want to. The only issues I have now are if locking the wheel a bit much while moving off at a junction I may get some mild wheel spin. I daily the car.
Tyres are key. A track day will help you quickly learn the limits of the car and most agree that the facelift is less twitchy in general.
Best car I've ever owned, don't think I could ever sell it!
A few weeks later I put 4 Uniroyal Rainsport 3's on it and now I struggle to get sideways even when I want to. The only issues I have now are if locking the wheel a bit much while moving off at a junction I may get some mild wheel spin. I daily the car.
Tyres are key. A track day will help you quickly learn the limits of the car and most agree that the facelift is less twitchy in general.
Best car I've ever owned, don't think I could ever sell it!
Owned my 02 S2000 (the one with 16" wheels) for a year now. I kept reading about snappy steering etc on the older ones and it almost put me off buying the car. Decided to go see the car and go for a test drive. Got the owner to throw it around some corners since he knew the roads and the car and I was sat there giggling like a little girl.
The Car is great. Yes I've had some scary moments but I've had scary moments in my diesel Astra when I'm driving like a tool.
I would second another point about tyres being important on the car. I'm running bridgestone RE002's at the moment and they're absolutely fine.
I've seen another post about you also looking at the 350Z. I was stuck in the same situation. All I can say is they are fairly different cars. Try both and see what you like. The low end torque is the thing I'm gutted I don't have in the S2000.
The Car is great. Yes I've had some scary moments but I've had scary moments in my diesel Astra when I'm driving like a tool.
I would second another point about tyres being important on the car. I'm running bridgestone RE002's at the moment and they're absolutely fine.
I've seen another post about you also looking at the 350Z. I was stuck in the same situation. All I can say is they are fairly different cars. Try both and see what you like. The low end torque is the thing I'm gutted I don't have in the S2000.
Doogle83 has posted an exquisite write up on the s2ki forums that explain all the differences in versions between 1999-2009.
It's long, analytic and contains all kind of information that someone could be interested in.
To answer your question a bit more simpler and faster, the difference between a prefacelift and a facelift model - handling wise - is that the later models are more neutral and less sensitive/twitchy on driver's input.
Part of it due to the larger wheels, lower profile on the tyres, the lesser anti-roll bars, part on the slightly longer steering rack, different geo on the rear wishbones ... and the list goes on as years change.
Fact is that they handle better with less driver effort. They can be driven a bit faster - easier.
That said, the prefacelift car is not a killer or anything like they write. And it can also be as fast!
As people mentioned before me, as long as you don't drive like a tool and respect a rwd 240hp car you will be fine and find yourself enjoying the rides A LOT!
My 2 cents,
Kostas.
It's long, analytic and contains all kind of information that someone could be interested in.
To answer your question a bit more simpler and faster, the difference between a prefacelift and a facelift model - handling wise - is that the later models are more neutral and less sensitive/twitchy on driver's input.
Part of it due to the larger wheels, lower profile on the tyres, the lesser anti-roll bars, part on the slightly longer steering rack, different geo on the rear wishbones ... and the list goes on as years change.
Fact is that they handle better with less driver effort. They can be driven a bit faster - easier.
That said, the prefacelift car is not a killer or anything like they write. And it can also be as fast!
As people mentioned before me, as long as you don't drive like a tool and respect a rwd 240hp car you will be fine and find yourself enjoying the rides A LOT!
My 2 cents,
Kostas.
I bought a 2003 car when it was 2y.o. I bought on condition and owner, not handling, as the one I looked at felt a bit leaden* compared to the '02 and the '04 I'd driven...but having read up i wasn't that worried...
...and a few months in, I took it to CentreGravity for a full geometry set-up - Chris spent ~4hrs with me and the car, and it genuinely transformed the way it drove - minimum caster improved steering feel and removed the gloopiness (together with toe changes), reduced rear camber and rear toe made it more throttle-adjustable and less snappy...properly different animal.
So...try and find one without seized adjusters and you can tweak it to your tastes. Comments above about tyres and the 'evolution' in handling are all accurate and equally valid, but you CAN make an '02 car dance if you set it up right...
* all relative - it was still electric vs the 350Z, 968 Sport and other options I'd looked at.
...and a few months in, I took it to CentreGravity for a full geometry set-up - Chris spent ~4hrs with me and the car, and it genuinely transformed the way it drove - minimum caster improved steering feel and removed the gloopiness (together with toe changes), reduced rear camber and rear toe made it more throttle-adjustable and less snappy...properly different animal.
So...try and find one without seized adjusters and you can tweak it to your tastes. Comments above about tyres and the 'evolution' in handling are all accurate and equally valid, but you CAN make an '02 car dance if you set it up right...
* all relative - it was still electric vs the 350Z, 968 Sport and other options I'd looked at.
havoc said:
I bought a 2003 car when it was 2y.o. I bought on condition and owner, not handling, as the one I looked at felt a bit leaden* compared to the '02 and the '04 I'd driven...but having read up i wasn't that worried...
...and a few months in, I took it to CentreGravity for a full geometry set-up - Chris spent ~4hrs with me and the car, and it genuinely transformed the way it drove - minimum caster improved steering feel and removed the gloopiness (together with toe changes), reduced rear camber and rear toe made it more throttle-adjustable and less snappy...properly different animal.
So...try and find one without seized adjusters and you can tweak it to your tastes. Comments above about tyres and the 'evolution' in handling are all accurate and equally valid, but you CAN make an '02 car dance if you set it up right...
* all relative - it was still electric vs the 350Z, 968 Sport and other options I'd looked at.
Interesting, so it could be say that buying on set up foremost, condition second is the way to go (within reason) ?! ...and a few months in, I took it to CentreGravity for a full geometry set-up - Chris spent ~4hrs with me and the car, and it genuinely transformed the way it drove - minimum caster improved steering feel and removed the gloopiness (together with toe changes), reduced rear camber and rear toe made it more throttle-adjustable and less snappy...properly different animal.
So...try and find one without seized adjusters and you can tweak it to your tastes. Comments above about tyres and the 'evolution' in handling are all accurate and equally valid, but you CAN make an '02 car dance if you set it up right...
* all relative - it was still electric vs the 350Z, 968 Sport and other options I'd looked at.
Only if you think all cars will have seized adjusters - a full geo set-up by a good place will be <£200, hopefully quite a bit less...and assuming you can adjust the suspension without trouble, you could spend a lot more getting a tired car with good handling up to the condition of a nice car which clearly needs the geo sorting.
Another shout for BS RE002's here.
Alignment and tyres will make the world of difference. That said, my '02 could be seen as 'snappy' both in the wet and dry when pushing hard, but that's what makes it a great car. You can really make them dance with a bit of practice and it's hugely rewarding. I've never been caught out though with proper alignment and tyres when driving sensibly.
Examples:
Wet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKO-NKWCZQ8
Dry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnDy8Di2-PM
Alignment and tyres will make the world of difference. That said, my '02 could be seen as 'snappy' both in the wet and dry when pushing hard, but that's what makes it a great car. You can really make them dance with a bit of practice and it's hugely rewarding. I've never been caught out though with proper alignment and tyres when driving sensibly.
Examples:
Wet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKO-NKWCZQ8
Dry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnDy8Di2-PM
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