DC02 prices......

DC02 prices......

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Squirrelofwoe

3,181 posts

175 months

Sunday 3rd April 2016
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havoc said:
ears

The ATR is one of the few fast Hondas I've not managed to drive, and I rate the DC2 up there as THE best overall steer of any car I've driven this side of a Caterham R300. Would love to hear your comparison...PM me if it's too involved for here.

Cheers,

Martin.
Interestingly the steering is one of the things I think the ATR just edges, not by much, but it just felt that little bit sharper to me. I would certainly rate the ATR the best car I've driven for steering feel- and that includes a Lotus Exige. I've never been able to put my finger on why it should be the case, and not having the two cars at the same time I was never able to directly compare them, but I've heard other people say the same which makes me think there might be something in it?

It was also a lot easier to drive when you weren't at 9/10ths, the extra torque from the 2.2 made it feel faster at the kinds of revs where the DC2 could feel a bit sluggish. Yes you still have to wring the neck out of it to get the most of it, but I used it as my daily driver for almost 3 years and it never once felt a chore to drive. Even at 3,000rpm you had sufficient power to make decent progress.

The DC2 still had the edge when you were really pushing it but I believe that was only due to the lower weight- and one of the ATR's best tricks is feeling a lot smaller than it actually is- the driving position is absolutely superb, and it's worth pointing out the kerb weight of the ATR is only around 30kg more than an S2000 so it never feels like you are driving a 4-door saloon. At times I believe I also got marginally more grip in the Accord when cornering, possibly due to the larger tyres (17" vs 15"), but it did inspire slightly more confidence, even if not being outright as quick. I suspect however that some of that was possibly me not trusting the abilities of the DC2 enough!

For me the other big thing was the sound- my DC2 wasn't standard (Mugen manifold / ARC intake / Kakimoto exhaust etc) and would rev to over 9,000rpm, but my ATR with a K&N Typhoon + Mongoose cat-back system sounded simply outrageous! For me the best sounding 4-cylinder engine I've heard. It was interesting seeing the reaction of the chap who purchased my ATR. He owned an EP3 and a DC5 but had never driven one of the older style Type Rs, seeing his reaction to the noise on the test drive, particularly after the aggressive v-tec changeover, said a lot about how good the ATR sounded!

One area the ATR does lose out is with the lower rev limit and how it interacts with the gearing- basically it takes more work to avoid V-tec drop out in 2nd to 3rd change (or lowering the V-tec point) in the ATR. Personally this never bothered me, but I expect this difference would be more apparent on a track for instance.

So to sum up that random collection of thoughts, I'm pretty sure the Integra would have the edge on track over the ATR, but on the road I think I would take the ATR all day long. It's so much more enjoyable 'off v-tec' than the Integra is, and yet still retains 99% of the Integra's superb handling ability. This, coupled with that noise edges it for me.

Both cars feel remarkably similar though, a testament to what they achieved with the ATR given it's form factor compared with the smaller Integra. I'd recommend any car enthusiast to drive one, not least someone who has driven most other fast Hondas. The one car I'd love to compare it to is the Euro R, but the prices have always put me off slightly.

I guess the best compliment I can give it is that having gone to the ATR from a DC2 I never once found myself on a twisty b-road wishing I was back in the Integra, and every time I find myself on a road like that now, it's always the ATR I wish I was sat back in rather than the DC2. smile

havoc

29,917 posts

234 months

Sunday 3rd April 2016
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Thanks Squirrel.

Squirrelofwoe said:
I suspect however that some of that was possibly me not trusting the abilities of the DC2 enough!

So to sum up that random collection of thoughts, I'm pretty sure the Integra would have the edge on track over the ATR, but on the road I think I would take the ATR all day long. It's so much more enjoyable 'off v-tec' than the Integra is, and yet still retains 99% of the Integra's superb handling ability. This, coupled with that noise edges it for me.
First bit - probably - the thing I learned to love about the DC2 (probably shouldn't have on the road, but there we go...) was pushing it harder and harder and feeling the chassis work harder and respond to the challenge, how the rear axle got involved JUST enough when driven smoothly to totally eradicate understeer.

Second bit, particularly the extra torque, yeah, I get that - the B18 was a great engine but it WAS a little thin when you weren't in the mood. The FD2's engine is probably the best iVTEC going - touring car-esque sound as standard AND a mid-range thick enough you don't care about dropping out of VTEC when pressing on. Oh, and easily over 222bhp...much quicker than the stats suggest!


May have to find an ATR to have a go in...sounds like exactly the same DNA as the ITR...

Squirrelofwoe

3,181 posts

175 months

Sunday 3rd April 2016
quotequote all
havoc said:
First bit - probably - the thing I learned to love about the DC2 (probably shouldn't have on the road, but there we go...) was pushing it harder and harder and feeling the chassis work harder and respond to the challenge, how the rear axle got involved JUST enough when driven smoothly to totally eradicate understeer.

Second bit, particularly the extra torque, yeah, I get that - the B18 was a great engine but it WAS a little thin when you weren't in the mood. The FD2's engine is probably the best iVTEC going - touring car-esque sound as standard AND a mid-range thick enough you don't care about dropping out of VTEC when pressing on. Oh, and easily over 222bhp...much quicker than the stats suggest!


May have to find an ATR to have a go in...sounds like exactly the same DNA as the ITR...
No problem, yeah well worth it if your able to. It's a shame that I sold mine just before Christmas or I'd have sorted it out for you! I doubt you're very far from me if West Midlands.

It's definitely similar DNA- like I said, the chap who purchased mine was an EP3 & DC5 owner and he was blown away by the rawness of the ATR compared to those cars, which is exactly what most people say when they try a DC2.

I'd never been a huge fan of the iVtec engines, but after buying my Accord Tourer with the 188bhp K24 I have to say it's been a revelation. Obviously a completely different engine to the Type Rs, but in a daily drive it's just superb. Plenty of torque which is available really low down, but still with a 7,000rpm redline! Even when pushing it, say to join a duel carriageway for example, I rarely find myself going above 4,000rpm and it certainly doesn't hang about. Also, even with the stock exhaust it makes a nice sound at higher revs.

It really shows how technology has moved on in a small space of time, but in a Type R I think I still prefer the binary feel of the older engines, even if it compromises outright performance vs the newer models.

Butter Face

30,191 posts

159 months

Sunday 3rd April 2016
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I've had a couple of Civic VTI's and a Prelude VTI and driven ATR's and ITR's and still prefer my EP3. The K20 feels fresher and seems to have a more flexible usability.

I do miss the B/H series crossover, it's a lot more raw but the K still makes all of the right noises!!

havoc

29,917 posts

234 months

Sunday 3rd April 2016
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Squirrelofwoe said:
I doubt you're very far from me if West Midlands.
Stratford...probably not far at all!

K24 - imagine that engine with another 1,500rpm on top and you've probably got the JDM K20 - it doesn't feel like just 2 litres!!! Out of interest, what economy are you getting (assume Type-S?). The FD2 is averaging 29-30 combined, early-30s on a long M-way run at 80+.

Rob747

225 posts

175 months

Sunday 3rd April 2016
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The car mentioned by the OP (my car) sold today, very sad to see it go.

One of the great steers at any price, a fantastic car.

Squirrelofwoe

3,181 posts

175 months

Monday 4th April 2016
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havoc said:
Out of interest, what economy are you getting (assume Type-S?). The FD2 is averaging 29-30 combined, early-30s on a long M-way run at 80+.
Mine's the 'Executive' spec rather than the Type S as I wanted all of the toys! I'm not aware of any performance/economy differences between the two though.

I can get 35mpg no trouble on a motorway run in 6th gear, particularly if using cruise control. I'd say I average pretty much the same as your FD2 on combined (29-30). I imagine it's the higher weight of the Estate that means I get very similar economy to the higher performance but lighter FD2.

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

233 months

Sunday 10th April 2016
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GreenArrow said:
Yeah, I had noticed that DC02s aren't much cheaper than a dC05.

Another one with higher miles (129,000!) is on PH for a lot less...

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/h...

But, again, over 5 grand for a 129,000 mile 17 year coupe seems a fair bit...
Just seen this-that's my old car! I sold it in early 2014 for a err..lot less than being asked! It was a great car but like all Integras had the usual issues.