Better traction for EP3 Type R?

Better traction for EP3 Type R?

Author
Discussion

diehardbenzfan

Original Poster:

2,627 posts

157 months

Sunday 19th June 2016
quotequote all
Had a mini race today in damp conditions against a 2014 116i bmw, the roads were fairly damp and we both turned into a road (I was behind him) and we both accelerated, he had 4 people in his car and I had no chance, as I shifted into second, I got wheelspin and struggled for traction all the way into third and by that time he was gone, how do i solve this? I bought the car last week and it came with a relatively new pair of Avon ZZ3's. I am very impressed with the car and coming from a 330i auto, it feels perfectly balanced and so light! However after driving it in the rain, I really need to find a way to get better traction, anyone have any ideas?

diehardbenzfan

Original Poster:

2,627 posts

157 months

Sunday 19th June 2016
quotequote all
I cant imagine how silly Focus ST's or VXR astras are in the rain!

Ray Luxury-Yacht

8,910 posts

216 months

Sunday 19th June 2016
quotequote all
Not an unusual scenario for a peaky front-wheel drive car, in the wet, as I am sure that you already appreciate!

Does that not come with an LSD? If not, then the best and most expensive option would be to fit one!

Consider softer springs and dampers on the front suspension...

Avons are not the last word in traction, I've had experience before....consider some softer tyres or with softer / more compliant sidewalls - Yokohamas, Toyo Proxes etc.

Experiment with tyre pressures - you could probably drop to somewhere a little under 30psi - try different pressures and experiment with how it affects traction, grip and handling. Recommended pressures are for normal people - people with half a brain can try different pressures to suit their driving style.

Finally, driving technique can help - it's no good mashing the throttle into the floor like a mentalist, you need to work with the torque. Surprisingly, pulling away in a gentle fashion and then slowly feeding in the power once the tyres have keyed in to traction nicely, feeling the traction through the seat and steering wheel, and graduating your throttle input pays dividends.

HTH

Olivera

7,141 posts

239 months

Sunday 19th June 2016
quotequote all
Your tyres are junk.

My old 277bhp Cupra R could deploy full power in the wet in second gear with zero wheelspin using Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric 3.

Butter Face

30,303 posts

160 months

Sunday 19th June 2016
quotequote all
Better tyres and an LSD.

That's my next plan.

If you think yours is hard to get traction, you should try driving an EP3 with 265bhp and 195 ft:lb of torque. In the rain today it was hilarious hehe

Especially with Toyo T1R's, they're great in the summer but in the rain they're just terrible.

Butter Face

30,303 posts

160 months

Sunday 19th June 2016
quotequote all
Btw, take some solace in the fact you probably looked and sounded a lot cooler wheel spinning into 3rd with all that VTEC :hehe;

Also, he'll have traction control. Something again I may look into as I have Hondata so I could get the traction control module they offer.

otolith

56,134 posts

204 months

Sunday 19th June 2016
quotequote all
My EP3 used to struggle for wet traction when the front Bridgestones were getting close to replacement (and I didn't run them down to the legal limit either). Might not be much torque, but the gearing is short and it makes an appreciable proportion of peak from modest revs.

diehardbenzfan

Original Poster:

2,627 posts

157 months

Sunday 19th June 2016
quotequote all
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
Not an unusual scenario for a peaky front-wheel drive car, in the wet, as I am sure that you already appreciate!

Does that not come with an LSD? If not, then the best and most expensive option would be to fit one!

Consider softer springs and dampers on the front suspension...

Avons are not the last word in traction, I've had experience before....consider some softer tyres or with softer / more compliant sidewalls - Yokohamas, Toyo Proxes etc.

Experiment with tyre pressures - you could probably drop to somewhere a little under 30psi - try different pressures and experiment with how it affects traction, grip and handling. Recommended pressures are for normal people - people with half a brain can try different pressures to suit their driving style.

Finally, driving technique can help - it's no good mashing the throttle into the floor like a mentalist, you need to work with the torque. Surprisingly, pulling away in a gentle fashion and then slowly feeding in the power once the tyres have keyed in to traction nicely, feeling the traction through the seat and steering wheel, and graduating your throttle input pays dividends.

HTH
Thanks for that, they are very light (around 1200kg) and only the JDM ones came with the LSD, I dont think I could afford one of those though ha!

As for tyres, I dont pay much attention to all that as I never had problems with my previous cars to make me think 'oh, maybe I need different tyres' so I'll have a shop around and I'll play around with the tyre pressure!

As for driving technique, Ive gotten used to the car and I know how to drive it, 1st gear into second was fine as we were turning into the road so I eased into it, as the vtec kicked in, thats when it became a problem, shifting from first into second at 8000 rpm means as you enter second gear, the vtecs kicking in which means constant wheelspin, 200 hp on 2 front wheels at 7500 rpm on a 1200 kg car is going to be a problem ha!





Martin_Hx

3,955 posts

198 months

Monday 20th June 2016
quotequote all
They are a challenge in the wet to get traction, when you do get it right its a lovely feeling though!

I tend not to go massively quick in the wet anyway, wait till the roads are dry then you can have a bit of fun... i tend to get tyres which are better for dry roads and have stiff sidewalls.

I've used Hankooks for years and they have been a decent, if slightly budget brand tyre

diehardbenzfan

Original Poster:

2,627 posts

157 months

Monday 20th June 2016
quotequote all
Olivera said:
Your tyres are junk.

My old 277bhp Cupra R could deploy full power in the wet in second gear with zero wheelspin using Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric 3.
thanks, I'm definitely going to have a look!

diehardbenzfan

Original Poster:

2,627 posts

157 months

Monday 20th June 2016
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
Better tyres and an LSD.

That's my next plan.

If you think yours is hard to get traction, you should try driving an EP3 with 265bhp and 195 ft:lb of torque. In the rain today it was hilarious hehe

Especially with Toyo T1R's, they're great in the summer but in the rain they're just terrible.
wow!! How did you manage all that?? Vtec does sound great though, going full blast on a dry road makes you feel like a racing driver, so much fun!!

As for modifiactions, I'm pretty content with the prerformance, I just wish it sounded a little bit nicer when driving normally, I thought about an exhaust but I love the twin standard ones, what have you got on yours?

Butter Face

30,303 posts

160 months

Monday 20th June 2016
quotequote all
diehardbenzfan said:
Butter Face said:
Better tyres and an LSD.

That's my next plan.

If you think yours is hard to get traction, you should try driving an EP3 with 265bhp and 195 ft:lb of torque. In the rain today it was hilarious hehe

Especially with Toyo T1R's, they're great in the summer but in the rain they're just terrible.
wow!! How did you manage all that?? Vtec does sound great though, going full blast on a dry road makes you feel like a racing driver, so much fun!!

As for modifiactions, I'm pretty content with the prerformance, I just wish it sounded a little bit nicer when driving normally, I thought about an exhaust but I love the twin standard ones, what have you got on yours?
Mine is supercharged, just running low power at the moment as I haven't currently got an intercooler.

I have one going on in a few weeks though so should be breaking the 300bhp mark I hope smile

Standard exhaust on mine, I'm all about the induction noise wink

Here's a link to my thread about the car. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=141...

podpod

135 posts

115 months

Wednesday 22nd June 2016
quotequote all
Olivera said:
Your tyres are junk.

My old 277bhp Cupra R could deploy full power in the wet in second gear with zero wheelspin using Goodyear Eagle F1 Assymetric 3.
Gearing maybe and probably is different but a comparison never the less

otolith

56,134 posts

204 months

Wednesday 22nd June 2016
quotequote all
I think F1As are probably better in the wet but less sharp in the dry than the original equipment Bridgestone RE040s on the Civic. I don't know if you can even buy them anymore, and the RE050 feels more like the Goodyear to me. They're all good tyres, but different.

diehardbenzfan

Original Poster:

2,627 posts

157 months

Thursday 23rd June 2016
quotequote all
I'm probably going to go for the goodyears, thanks for the input guys!

Another question though, I like the stance of the ep3 and I intend to keep it standard, however I cant help but think how nice it would look if I lower it slightly by around 20mm and put some spacers on it! Ive never really modfied a car as I think the manufactorer made the car that way for a reason, I wouldnt do anything that would affect the car negatively.....so is it a good idea?

MyVTECGoesBwaaah

820 posts

142 months

Thursday 23rd June 2016
quotequote all
The Eibach Pro Kit gets lots of good reviews, that may be what you are after. The problem is once it is lowered the camber is knocked out and you need front camber bolts (£20), rear camber arms (£120) and alignment which all adds to the cost.

I opted to go for just the camber kits and get it aligned to "fast road" specs (FRSU) which made a world of difference, even at standard height. I didn't really want to lower it and ruin it's versatility over rougher/uneven roads, not that I am taking it off-roading but some roads I need to use for work are a bit ridiculous! smile

diehardbenzfan

Original Poster:

2,627 posts

157 months

Thursday 23rd June 2016
quotequote all
MyVTECGoesBwaaah said:
The Eibach Pro Kit gets lots of good reviews, that may be what you are after. The problem is once it is lowered the camber is knocked out and you need front camber bolts (£20), rear camber arms (£120) and alignment which all adds to the cost.

I opted to go for just the camber kits and get it aligned to "fast road" specs (FRSU) which made a world of difference, even at standard height. I didn't really want to lower it and ruin it's versatility over rougher/uneven roads, not that I am taking it off-roading but some roads I need to use for work are a bit ridiculous! smile
Oh ok, I dont really want to spend over 200 pounds as this car I only paid 1500 for the car and I dont want to get carried away haha! This may sound stupid but what are the camber kits and what do they do lol
do the camber kits do?

MyVTECGoesBwaaah

820 posts

142 months

Thursday 23rd June 2016
quotequote all
diehardbenzfan said:
MyVTECGoesBwaaah said:
The Eibach Pro Kit gets lots of good reviews, that may be what you are after. The problem is once it is lowered the camber is knocked out and you need front camber bolts (£20), rear camber arms (£120) and alignment which all adds to the cost.

I opted to go for just the camber kits and get it aligned to "fast road" specs (FRSU) which made a world of difference, even at standard height. I didn't really want to lower it and ruin it's versatility over rougher/uneven roads, not that I am taking it off-roading but some roads I need to use for work are a bit ridiculous! smile
Oh ok, I dont really want to spend over 200 pounds as this car I only paid 1500 for the car and I dont want to get carried away haha! This may sound stupid but what are the camber kits and what do they do lol
do the camber kits do?
That's fair enough! There is no camber adjustment on the EP3s from the factory, they use fixed arms on the rear which means when it goes lower the wheels go more like this... / \ The camber kit allows you adjust the camber back to straight or somewhere in between to give better handling. Out of the factory there were very wide tolerances for the alignment, you could have -1 on one side and then 0 on the other which would explain the improvement by doing it on stock springs etc...

Something like these:

http://www.tegiwaimports.com/select-car/honda/ep/s...
http://www.tegiwaimports.com/select-car/honda/ep/s...

Of course you may choose to just fit the springs and leave the camber as it is. It will likely end up around -2 degrees (Depending on your stock setup of course), maybe not optimal but definitely cost friendly! All depends what you use the car for and how many miles you want out of a set of tyres smile

Another simple handling mod is a JDM rear anti roll bar, they are around £100 and are supposed to make a bit of a difference. Even with new rear droplinks, poly bushes and fitting it would likely come out cheaper than £200.

Butter Face

30,303 posts

160 months

Thursday 23rd June 2016
quotequote all
Camber setup is well worth doing. I've done a little video about it on YouTube if you want a link?

diehardbenzfan

Original Poster:

2,627 posts

157 months

Monday 4th July 2016
quotequote all
MyVTECGoesBwaaah said:
diehardbenzfan said:
MyVTECGoesBwaaah said:
The Eibach Pro Kit gets lots of good reviews, that may be what you are after. The problem is once it is lowered the camber is knocked out and you need front camber bolts (£20), rear camber arms (£120) and alignment which all adds to the cost.

I opted to go for just the camber kits and get it aligned to "fast road" specs (FRSU) which made a world of difference, even at standard height. I didn't really want to lower it and ruin it's versatility over rougher/uneven roads, not that I am taking it off-roading but some roads I need to use for work are a bit ridiculous! smile
Oh ok, I dont really want to spend over 200 pounds as this car I only paid 1500 for the car and I dont want to get carried away haha! This may sound stupid but what are the camber kits and what do they do lol
do the camber kits do?
That's fair enough! There is no camber adjustment on the EP3s from the factory, they use fixed arms on the rear which means when it goes lower the wheels go more like this... / \ The camber kit allows you adjust the camber back to straight or somewhere in between to give better handling. Out of the factory there were very wide tolerances for the alignment, you could have -1 on one side and then 0 on the other which would explain the improvement by doing it on stock springs etc...

Something like these:

http://www.tegiwaimports.com/select-car/honda/ep/s...
http://www.tegiwaimports.com/select-car/honda/ep/s...

Of course you may choose to just fit the springs and leave the camber as it is. It will likely end up around -2 degrees (Depending on your stock setup of course), maybe not optimal but definitely cost friendly! All depends what you use the car for and how many miles you want out of a set of tyres smile

Another simple handling mod is a JDM rear anti roll bar, they are around £100 and are supposed to make a bit of a difference. Even with new rear droplinks, poly bushes and fitting it would likely come out cheaper than £200.
Thanks for that, just saw the response!

Errrr well I use the car daily on a 3 mile commute to work so I'm usually driving normally as the car is never fully warmed up enough for me to rag it! On my days off however, thats when I give it a good seeing to, I don't have nice twisty clear roads in my area so I'd say I mostly floor it on straight roads. Tyres wise, Im only keeping the car till christmas as I'm saving for a newer car so thats not a problem.....If I was to just put some springs on it, do you think there would be a noticable penalty?