S2000 Purchase - advice please
Discussion
MiloD said:
Hi all,
I am currently considering buying an S2000 - I have a realistic budget of £12k.
I have been shopping around and ideally I would rather not spend quite that much but will go to that if needs be. My question being what should I be looking out for, particularly if I am buying a car that has 50k + miles on it, which is probably 6 years old.
Also I am currenlty unsure of the variants - when was the next facelift after say 2001? What were the differences?
Really any adivce on the subject would be great, I have run Audi's for the last few of years and will be sad to see my S3 go, but I fancy a rear drive 2 seater, which leaves me with a choice (basically) of an S2000 or an Elise. At the moment the S2000 is winning handsdown!!
Thanks all in advance for your help.
Miles
I had exactly the same choice 18 months ago and went for the Elise. What's your decision on the S2000 based on? Have you tried the Boxster S? Sorry, I know this is a Honda forum, but I was just interested I am currently considering buying an S2000 - I have a realistic budget of £12k.
I have been shopping around and ideally I would rather not spend quite that much but will go to that if needs be. My question being what should I be looking out for, particularly if I am buying a car that has 50k + miles on it, which is probably 6 years old.
Also I am currenlty unsure of the variants - when was the next facelift after say 2001? What were the differences?
Really any adivce on the subject would be great, I have run Audi's for the last few of years and will be sad to see my S3 go, but I fancy a rear drive 2 seater, which leaves me with a choice (basically) of an S2000 or an Elise. At the moment the S2000 is winning handsdown!!
Thanks all in advance for your help.
Miles
RobM77 said:
Have you tried the Boxster S?
MiloD said:
I have a realistic budget of £12k.
Does that answer your question Rob?
In terms of 'car for the money', the S2000 is a better bet than either the Elise or the Boxster.
In terms of pure, unfiltered driving thrills, little beats an Elise...but it requires more compromises of the owner, esp. the S1 version.
havoc said:
RobM77 said:
Have you tried the Boxster S?
MiloD said:
I have a realistic budget of £12k.
Does that answer your question Rob?
In terms of 'car for the money', the S2000 is a better bet than either the Elise or the Boxster.
In terms of pure, unfiltered driving thrills, little beats an Elise...but it requires more compromises of the owner, esp. the S1 version.
I somehow forgot about the budget.I doubt you'd get an everyday specced Elise S2 like I've got for £12k, so I can see why the S2000 is ahead against standard Elises for everyday use. There's absolutely no question at all which is the better driver's car in my mind, so the choice would be easy for me. My choice came down to the Boxster vs the Elise - I prefer the Boxster to the S2000 (more steering feel, better ride and handling), so it just came down to how much comfort I wanted - and I decided to sacrifice that for the beautiful drive that the Elise is. I suppose if comfort really is a requirement then the S2000 is the one to go for.
RobM77 said:
I prefer the Boxster to the S2000 (more steering feel, better ride and handling)
Steering feel is a £3-400 fix - £2-300 for braces, £100 for geometry adjustment.It's not perfect after that (certainly nowhere near the Elise), but it's got a lot more natural 'weight' to it and some feedback too.
And the S2000, price-wise, is pitched against the stock Boxster, which is substantially slower, straights or twisties, (trust me on this...I've mullered a few!
) AND more expensive to run.Box-S is another step upwards, price-wise...but it does feel it.
RobM77 said:
I suppose if comfort really is a requirement then the S2000 is the one to go for.
I'd say the Elise rides slightly better, but the S2000 has better seats, better driving position/ergonomics (amongst the best I've found), MUCH better powertrain (also amongst the best I've driven) and a bigger, more usable boot.In that regard I'd suggest (carefully) it's a more rounded car, certainly than the S1. But you're right in terms of driving thrills...if I was single I'd be sorely tempted by a 111S, 135R (160R probably requires a friendly chiropractor and no speedbumps within 20 miles!), or a K20A conversion...
havoc said:
RobM77 said:
I prefer the Boxster to the S2000 (more steering feel, better ride and handling)
Steering feel is a £3-400 fix - £2-300 for braces, £100 for geometry adjustment.It's not perfect after that (certainly nowhere near the Elise), but it's got a lot more natural 'weight' to it and some feedback too.
And the S2000, price-wise, is pitched against the stock Boxster, which is substantially slower, straights or twisties, (trust me on this...I've mullered a few!
) AND more expensive to run.Box-S is another step upwards, price-wise...but it does feel it.
RobM77 said:
I suppose if comfort really is a requirement then the S2000 is the one to go for.
I'd say the Elise rides slightly better, but the S2000 has better seats, better driving position/ergonomics (amongst the best I've found), MUCH better powertrain (also amongst the best I've driven) and a bigger, more usable boot.In that regard I'd suggest (carefully) it's a more rounded car, certainly than the S1. But you're right in terms of driving thrills...if I was single I'd be sorely tempted by a 111S, 135R (160R probably requires a friendly chiropractor and no speedbumps within 20 miles!), or a K20A conversion...
Are you sure the boot on the S2000 is bigger than the S2 Elise? I think I looked up the volumes sometime and it is supposed to be, it just doesn't look it!
Regarding the driving position in the S2000, I called in at Honda yesterday to check for certain that there's no adjustment and no, nothing adjusts. The steering wheel reach and height plus the seat height are all fixed - as such I feel like noddy in toy town driving it, and I seem to do more steering with my knees than with my hands! The seat's furthest back positon still sees my legs bent right up. The Elise is the same story regarding lack of adjustment, but the seat goes back further and you sit lower to start with, and the lack of airbag means that you can replace the steering wheel and fit spacers to suit.
The S2000 has the best gearchange I've ever experienced though..
RichyBoy said:
The probacs seats in the 06/07 lotus are the best seats I have ever experienced, a hundred times better than the s2000s. After a few hours in the s2000 I used to get backache, but in the probacs I could sit in them all day long in perfect comfort.
Do you think it's worth an upgrade to Probax seats from the standard '04 model seats? I've got a bad back and have been considering it as my Elise is my everyday car.Richy,
I thought I mentioned above about Probax, but can't find it. But yes, they do make very good seats. My gripe about the older Elise/VX seats was the lack of backrest adjustment - they're too 'laid back' for me and it didn't feel natural.
Rob,
Steering feel. I looked into it after getting the S. Loads of factors affect it, but among them (and the easiest to change) are:-
- castor angle. Reduce it = less self-centering, so more work driving the car, but also lighter steering and better feedback. Not sure how or why, but it worked...I had slightly lighter steering but with some more info coming back through the wheel. Noticeable improvement, but still not fantastic, so...
- body stiffness. Reduce the amount of flex in the shell and you improve the consistency of the responses of both suspension and steering. In this case, upper and lower bracing (plus thicker rear-lower) has given the car a more 'planted' feel to it, and heavier, more natural-weighted steering.
Boot...it's either 16x litres or 20x litres, can't remember which. But it's surprisingly practical, and the deep bit in the centre is a very useful size for putting stuff in that you don't want sliding around (disklok fits nice, brake disks, large birthday cake...). The only time we couldn't fit enough into it was Christmas, when we were going to my folks for the weekend.
Driving position...OK, I'm 5'10" and average build and it feels like it's built around me...but I can imagine that for someone much larger it could be an issue...while the more-basic nature of the Elise facilitates making adjustments yourself.
I thought I mentioned above about Probax, but can't find it. But yes, they do make very good seats. My gripe about the older Elise/VX seats was the lack of backrest adjustment - they're too 'laid back' for me and it didn't feel natural.
Rob,
Steering feel. I looked into it after getting the S. Loads of factors affect it, but among them (and the easiest to change) are:-
- castor angle. Reduce it = less self-centering, so more work driving the car, but also lighter steering and better feedback. Not sure how or why, but it worked...I had slightly lighter steering but with some more info coming back through the wheel. Noticeable improvement, but still not fantastic, so...
- body stiffness. Reduce the amount of flex in the shell and you improve the consistency of the responses of both suspension and steering. In this case, upper and lower bracing (plus thicker rear-lower) has given the car a more 'planted' feel to it, and heavier, more natural-weighted steering.
Boot...it's either 16x litres or 20x litres, can't remember which. But it's surprisingly practical, and the deep bit in the centre is a very useful size for putting stuff in that you don't want sliding around (disklok fits nice, brake disks, large birthday cake...). The only time we couldn't fit enough into it was Christmas, when we were going to my folks for the weekend.
Driving position...OK, I'm 5'10" and average build and it feels like it's built around me...but I can imagine that for someone much larger it could be an issue...while the more-basic nature of the Elise facilitates making adjustments yourself.
havoc said:
Richy,
I thought I mentioned above about Probax, but can't find it. But yes, they do make very good seats. My gripe about the older Elise/VX seats was the lack of backrest adjustment - they're too 'laid back' for me and it didn't feel natural.
Rob,
Steering feel. I looked into it after getting the S. Loads of factors affect it, but among them (and the easiest to change) are:-
- castor angle. Reduce it = less self-centering, so more work driving the car, but also lighter steering and better feedback. Not sure how or why, but it worked...I had slightly lighter steering but with some more info coming back through the wheel. Noticeable improvement, but still not fantastic, so...
- body stiffness. Reduce the amount of flex in the shell and you improve the consistency of the responses of both suspension and steering. In this case, upper and lower bracing (plus thicker rear-lower) has given the car a more 'planted' feel to it, and heavier, more natural-weighted steering.
Boot...it's either 16x litres or 20x litres, can't remember which. But it's surprisingly practical, and the deep bit in the centre is a very useful size for putting stuff in that you don't want sliding around (disklok fits nice, brake disks, large birthday cake...). The only time we couldn't fit enough into it was Christmas, when we were going to my folks for the weekend.
Driving position...OK, I'm 5'10" and average build and it feels like it's built around me...but I can imagine that for someone much larger it could be an issue...while the more-basic nature of the Elise facilitates making adjustments yourself.
Some interesting comments there, thanks. I thought I mentioned above about Probax, but can't find it. But yes, they do make very good seats. My gripe about the older Elise/VX seats was the lack of backrest adjustment - they're too 'laid back' for me and it didn't feel natural.
Rob,
Steering feel. I looked into it after getting the S. Loads of factors affect it, but among them (and the easiest to change) are:-
- castor angle. Reduce it = less self-centering, so more work driving the car, but also lighter steering and better feedback. Not sure how or why, but it worked...I had slightly lighter steering but with some more info coming back through the wheel. Noticeable improvement, but still not fantastic, so...
- body stiffness. Reduce the amount of flex in the shell and you improve the consistency of the responses of both suspension and steering. In this case, upper and lower bracing (plus thicker rear-lower) has given the car a more 'planted' feel to it, and heavier, more natural-weighted steering.
Boot...it's either 16x litres or 20x litres, can't remember which. But it's surprisingly practical, and the deep bit in the centre is a very useful size for putting stuff in that you don't want sliding around (disklok fits nice, brake disks, large birthday cake...). The only time we couldn't fit enough into it was Christmas, when we were going to my folks for the weekend.
Driving position...OK, I'm 5'10" and average build and it feels like it's built around me...but I can imagine that for someone much larger it could be an issue...while the more-basic nature of the Elise facilitates making adjustments yourself.
I really worry about changing geometry that a car company has spent months tweaking, but you can always go back again I suppose. It sounds like you've made some good improvements to the chassis as well actually, though of course the geometry will also be linked to this. On my test drive of the standard S2000 is just didn't feel keyed into the road or totally sorted with regard to handling, like an MX5 or an MR2 does.
I'm 5'10" as well, but with 35 inch legs (average for someone of about 6'1" or over I think) and I just couldn't get comfortable. To be honest I rely on the considerable adjustment that some car manufacturers give, and I usually use it all. It surprises and dissapoints me that a company like Honda couldn't make things adjustable on the S2000. I realise that the seat's practically on the floor anyway, but this was a ground up design so they could have made the floor/steering wheel relationship different and given us a height adjustment on the seat. This is rather like a clothing company making one size of shirt and instantly ruling out half their potential customers!
From what I've heard bracing up the S2 makes a huge difference to the handling. I'm sure there is a string on here about it, and it doesn't seem to be that pricey. I think it's hard to compare the Elise to the S2, in my opinion, completely diffent cars with their own merits. Based on a price for price comparison for second hand models I would have to say you get more for your money with the S2. If your looking new I'd still have the S2 over an equally priced boxter and if I was looking at paying full wack for an Elise 111s, I'd probably say sod it, sell a kidney (somebody elses if possible) and buy a second hand Atom!
As a side note, the boot in the S2 is massive compared to the Elise. I can fit 2 diving cylinders and a full kit bag in the Honda whereas my mate would manage a snorkal and mask, some fins and a pair of speedos in the Elise.
No doubt the Elise is more fun on twisty bits but the Honda is no slouch and a better car to own on an every day.
As a side note, the boot in the S2 is massive compared to the Elise. I can fit 2 diving cylinders and a full kit bag in the Honda whereas my mate would manage a snorkal and mask, some fins and a pair of speedos in the Elise.
No doubt the Elise is more fun on twisty bits but the Honda is no slouch and a better car to own on an every day.
Edited by Royden on Tuesday 14th August 13:04
From what I've heard bracing up the S2 makes a huge difference to the handling. I'm sure there is a string on here about it, and it doesn't seem to be that pricey. I think it's hard to compare the Elise to the S2, in my opinion, completely diffent cars with their own merits. Based on a price for price comparison for second hand models I would have to say you get more for your money with the S2. If your looking new I'd still have the S2 over an equally priced boxter and if I was looking at paying full wack for an Elise 111s, I'd probably say sod it, sell a kidney (somebody elses if possible) and buy a second hand Atom!
As a side note, the boot in the S2 is massive compared to the Elise. I can fit 2 diving cylinders and a full kit bag in the Honda whereas my mate would manage a snorkal and mask, some fins and a pair of speedos in the Elise.
No doubt the Elise is more fun on twisty bits but the Honda is no slouch and a better car to own on an every day.
As a side note, the boot in the S2 is massive compared to the Elise. I can fit 2 diving cylinders and a full kit bag in the Honda whereas my mate would manage a snorkal and mask, some fins and a pair of speedos in the Elise.
No doubt the Elise is more fun on twisty bits but the Honda is no slouch and a better car to own on an every day.
Edited by Royden on Tuesday 14th August 13:10
Royden said:
From what I've heard bracing up the S2 makes a huge difference to the handling. I'm sure there is a string on here about it, and it doesnn't seam to be that pricy. I think it's hard to compare the Elise to the S2, in my opinion, completely diffent cars with their own merits. Based on a price for price comparison for second hand models I would have to say you get more for your money with the S2. If your looking new I'd still have the S2 over an equally priced boxter and if I was looking at paying full wack for an Elise 111s, I'd probably say sod it, sell a kidney (somebody elses if possible) and buy a second hand Atom!
As a side note, the boot in the S2 is massive compared to the Elise. I can fit 2 diving cylinders and a full kit bag in the Honda whereas my mate would manage a snorkal and mask, some fins and a pair of speedos in the Elise.
No doubt the Elise is more fun on twisty bits but the Honda is no slouch and a better car to own on an every day.
Which Elise does your mate have? S1 or S2? The S1 boot was a joke, but in the S2 you've got the whole of the rear clam to use as space. I'm not sure that I can get diving cylinders in my Elise, but can easily manage everything my gf and I need for a weekend away. You know those standard sized rucksacks that people use for the gym etc? We can get two each in the boot and still have room for some 2 litre bottles of Evian, coats, shoes and of course the car's roof As a side note, the boot in the S2 is massive compared to the Elise. I can fit 2 diving cylinders and a full kit bag in the Honda whereas my mate would manage a snorkal and mask, some fins and a pair of speedos in the Elise.
No doubt the Elise is more fun on twisty bits but the Honda is no slouch and a better car to own on an every day.
It's not neccesarily the pace that bothers me (for all I know the S2000 may be faster than the Elise!), it's more the involvement and the fun you get out of every drive. I enjoy my Elise absolutely everytime I get in it to go somewhere
That's what it's all about Don't let me sound negative towards the S2000 though - it's a damm fine car!!
From what I've heard bracing up the S2 makes a huge difference to the handling. I'm sure there is a string on here about it, and it doesn't seem to be that pricey. I think it's hard to compare the Elise to the S2, in my opinion, completely diffent cars with their own merits. Based on a price for price comparison for second hand models I would have to say you get more for your money with the S2. If your looking new I'd still have the S2 over an equally priced boxter and if I was looking at paying full wack for an Elise 111s, I'd probably say sod it, sell a kidney (somebody elses if possible) and buy a second hand Atom!
As a side note, the boot in the S2 is massive compared to the Elise. I can fit 2 diving cylinders and a full kit bag in the Honda whereas my mate would manage a snorkal and mask, some fins and a pair of speedos in the Elise.
No doubt the Elise is more fun on twisty bits but the Honda is no slouch and a better car to own on an every day.
As a side note, the boot in the S2 is massive compared to the Elise. I can fit 2 diving cylinders and a full kit bag in the Honda whereas my mate would manage a snorkal and mask, some fins and a pair of speedos in the Elise.
No doubt the Elise is more fun on twisty bits but the Honda is no slouch and a better car to own on an every day.
RobM77 said:
We can get two each in the boot and still have room for some 2 litre bottles of Evian, coats, shoes and of course the car's roof
It's not neccesarily the pace that bothers me (for all I know the S2000 may be faster than the Elise!), it's more the involvement and the fun you get out of every drive. I enjoy my Elise absolutely everytime I get in it to go somewhere That's what it's all about
Don't let me sound negative towards the S2000 though - it's a damm fine car!!
Last point first - you're not. We're debating angels on the head of a pin here, not 'my car is better than yours'...we leave that to the plebs in the Porker and BM forums!!! ;o)It's not neccesarily the pace that bothers me (for all I know the S2000 may be faster than the Elise!), it's more the involvement and the fun you get out of every drive. I enjoy my Elise absolutely everytime I get in it to go somewhere
That's what it's all about Don't let me sound negative towards the S2000 though - it's a damm fine car!!
First para...doesn't sound bad...probably not a million miles off the S2000 then. Compared to the VX220 boot it's got an aperture getting on for 2x the area (inc. the drop at the back) and a volume 20-40% bigger (loose guess but hard to be definite).
Pace...the Honda is VERY rapid when used properly (Honda know how to engineer, even if the result is more 'compromised' for driving purists than the Elsie)...IMHO you'd need a VXT or 111R to get the better of it, even on a moderately twisty road...although to be honest any Elise/VX/S2000 can corner too quickly for safety on a public road, so again we're probably talking theoretical here.
That said, the ally boys will clearly be more 'delicate', adjustable, and confidence-inspiring, but the layout might preclude any 'showboating'...again purely theoretical, you understand!
RobM77 said:
RichyBoy said:
The probacs seats in the 06/07 lotus are the best seats I have ever experienced, a hundred times better than the s2000s. After a few hours in the s2000 I used to get backache, but in the probacs I could sit in them all day long in perfect comfort.
Do you think it's worth an upgrade to Probax seats from the standard '04 model seats? I've got a bad back and have been considering it as my Elise is my everyday car.RichyBoy said:
RobM77 said:
RichyBoy said:
The probacs seats in the 06/07 lotus are the best seats I have ever experienced, a hundred times better than the s2000s. After a few hours in the s2000 I used to get backache, but in the probacs I could sit in them all day long in perfect comfort.
Do you think it's worth an upgrade to Probax seats from the standard '04 model seats? I've got a bad back and have been considering it as my Elise is my everyday car.
Whooaa, just come back from holiday and seen that there is some good debating going on on this thread!!
As far as I'm concerned (and as you guys point out) the Boxster is well out of my price range (and tbh I would rather wait until ((and if I can)) stretch to a 911. Servicing and parts are astronomical compared to an S2 or an Elise.
I think that the elise is the ultimate drivers car and that in that way it is completely uncompromising. The S2k however finds that great middle ground it is reasonable on running costs, its has plenty of power and is comfortable enough for use as an everyday car. Having taken one for a test drive I can see why someone 6' or above may struggle. My current car is an Audi S3 and I have become very used to the space and comfort that offers, I have to say the S2k did feel tight, though it is so well laid out that is not a problem.
I have been mulling over my predicament about how much to spend, and have taken the decision to sell my car now, by a cheapo diesel run about for the winter and save my cash so that I can go for a 2004 version. I have been looking carefully, and although the changes made to the 2004 models onwards are minor (on the looks dept) I really prefer the overall look of the car. This is the version I took for a test drive and it was supeerb... like someone else mentioned on this thread the gearbox is superb.
All I have to do now is to get a cover note on my next door neighbours older S2k and so I can compare.... will report back my findings.
Over n' out
As far as I'm concerned (and as you guys point out) the Boxster is well out of my price range (and tbh I would rather wait until ((and if I can)) stretch to a 911. Servicing and parts are astronomical compared to an S2 or an Elise.
I think that the elise is the ultimate drivers car and that in that way it is completely uncompromising. The S2k however finds that great middle ground it is reasonable on running costs, its has plenty of power and is comfortable enough for use as an everyday car. Having taken one for a test drive I can see why someone 6' or above may struggle. My current car is an Audi S3 and I have become very used to the space and comfort that offers, I have to say the S2k did feel tight, though it is so well laid out that is not a problem.
I have been mulling over my predicament about how much to spend, and have taken the decision to sell my car now, by a cheapo diesel run about for the winter and save my cash so that I can go for a 2004 version. I have been looking carefully, and although the changes made to the 2004 models onwards are minor (on the looks dept) I really prefer the overall look of the car. This is the version I took for a test drive and it was supeerb... like someone else mentioned on this thread the gearbox is superb.
All I have to do now is to get a cover note on my next door neighbours older S2k and so I can compare.... will report back my findings.
Over n' out
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