Integra dc2 vs dc5?
Discussion
I'm sure this has been asked a million times, but I'm just looking for a bit of help.
I'm looking to buy an integra, having just put my current car up for sale... but I can find very few honest and impartial reviews of the DC5? maybe it's just my lack of knowledge as to where to look....
But I want to know, is the DC5 substantially better than the DC2? Obviously it has more power etc, but I mean in terms of the driving experience...
I guess I really need someone that has driven both models. But essentially, as I stand, I could buy a DC2 in cash (as soon as my car sells) or I could take out a small loan to pay the extra for the DC5? I'll have about £7000 to play with + loan if necessary.
And just to throw an extra spanner in the works.... should I buy a civic EK9 over a Teg?
I'm sure you can tell by now that my brain is packed full of questions and indecision which I don't have the knowledge to satisfy. So please help me
Any help at all is much appreciated!
I'm looking to buy an integra, having just put my current car up for sale... but I can find very few honest and impartial reviews of the DC5? maybe it's just my lack of knowledge as to where to look....
But I want to know, is the DC5 substantially better than the DC2? Obviously it has more power etc, but I mean in terms of the driving experience...
I guess I really need someone that has driven both models. But essentially, as I stand, I could buy a DC2 in cash (as soon as my car sells) or I could take out a small loan to pay the extra for the DC5? I'll have about £7000 to play with + loan if necessary.
And just to throw an extra spanner in the works.... should I buy a civic EK9 over a Teg?
I'm sure you can tell by now that my brain is packed full of questions and indecision which I don't have the knowledge to satisfy. So please help me
Any help at all is much appreciated!
Think the general concensus is that as a driving machine, the DC2 tops the DC5.
Think of the DC5 as a slightly more livable DC2, more like a cross between that and an EP3 but with the extra goodies. Or goodie, being the LSD.
Insurance will be miles higher on a DC5 as are general running costs.
Test drive both and I'm sure you will figure which one you prefer.
I own a 96' DC2 having previously owned an EP3 and love it in every way.
The DC2 is everything I loved about the EP3 mulitiplied by about 10.
IIRC DC2 is slightly quicker than the DC5, but DC5 has more useable power being a K20 motor rather than the old school B18.
Plenty in itr-dc2.com to help you decide on this one bud.
Lewis
Think of the DC5 as a slightly more livable DC2, more like a cross between that and an EP3 but with the extra goodies. Or goodie, being the LSD.
Insurance will be miles higher on a DC5 as are general running costs.
Test drive both and I'm sure you will figure which one you prefer.
I own a 96' DC2 having previously owned an EP3 and love it in every way.
The DC2 is everything I loved about the EP3 mulitiplied by about 10.
IIRC DC2 is slightly quicker than the DC5, but DC5 has more useable power being a K20 motor rather than the old school B18.
Plenty in itr-dc2.com to help you decide on this one bud.
Lewis
I have had both and when I got the DC5 I was slightly disapointed, great looking car and much more modern than the DC2 but the car felt heavy and lacked the rawness of the DC2, that said the engie was a lot better lower down but not as fun up the revrange compared to the B18C engine (in Vtec). I have also had an EK9 this was very similar to the DC2 but probably a little better through the twisty bends but lacked power and torque of the 1.8 integra engine. Great car and rare but if I were to choose I would go for a import 98 spec DC2 or a FD2. But that said they are all great cars.
If you can live with the Dc2 id get one over a DC5 probably, make sure it's a 98Spec JDM though, there supposed to be the better one's with the better brakes.
Ive recently gone from a EP3 to a DC5, and it definatly handles better, and sounds far better, it seems to rev more freely, and stays in VTEC a lot easier, can't comment on a DC2, but ive spoken to a dude who owned 2 DC2's and has a DC5 now, and he said the DC2 handled better.
The DC5 looks far better IMO, but it will be more to insure, if your under 25 might be a problem......running costs are pretty much the same across all DC2, DC5, EP3, there all very similar. Im getting more MPG out of the DC5.....
In a straight line the DC2 might have the edge up to like 60mph, but after that the DC5 will win, on the road your not going to notice much difference between them if any at all id of thought.
There both great cars so you can't really go wrong, the best thing about the DC5 is that it's an import and rare.
Ive recently gone from a EP3 to a DC5, and it definatly handles better, and sounds far better, it seems to rev more freely, and stays in VTEC a lot easier, can't comment on a DC2, but ive spoken to a dude who owned 2 DC2's and has a DC5 now, and he said the DC2 handled better.
The DC5 looks far better IMO, but it will be more to insure, if your under 25 might be a problem......running costs are pretty much the same across all DC2, DC5, EP3, there all very similar. Im getting more MPG out of the DC5.....
In a straight line the DC2 might have the edge up to like 60mph, but after that the DC5 will win, on the road your not going to notice much difference between them if any at all id of thought.
There both great cars so you can't really go wrong, the best thing about the DC5 is that it's an import and rare.
Making it all dumbed down as much as possible.
Driving a DC5 is like driving a DC2, but with boxing gloves on and cotton wool in your ears.
Feels the same, but is all watered down.
'96 spec JDM is commonly the lightest due to the trim levels it came with, but has crap brakes and taller gear ratios. '98 spec JDM is the heaviest, but has nicer brakes and shorter gear ratios, aswell as HID headlights.
UK model is more or less the same as the '98 spec once you swap the exhaust, except no HID headlights. And the way it looks, obviously.
Driving a DC5 is like driving a DC2, but with boxing gloves on and cotton wool in your ears.
Feels the same, but is all watered down.
'96 spec JDM is commonly the lightest due to the trim levels it came with, but has crap brakes and taller gear ratios. '98 spec JDM is the heaviest, but has nicer brakes and shorter gear ratios, aswell as HID headlights.
UK model is more or less the same as the '98 spec once you swap the exhaust, except no HID headlights. And the way it looks, obviously.
smithmi81 said:
I have had both and when I got the DC5 I was slightly disapointed, great looking car and much more modern than the DC2 but the car felt heavy and lacked the rawness of the DC2, that said the engie was a lot better lower down but not as fun up the revrange compared to the B18C engine (in Vtec). I have also had an EK9 this was very similar to the DC2 but probably a little better through the twisty bends but lacked power and torque of the 1.8 integra engine. Great car and rare but if I were to choose I would go for a import 98 spec DC2 or a FD2. But that said they are all great cars.
Best post so-far.(Grovsie - brakes on the 98 JDM are the same as the UKDM. 96 JDM had SMALLER brakes!)
I've driven a couple of DC5s, and owned 2 DC2s (which tells you which car I prefer - I'd actually struggle to pick between my DC2 and NSX - would depend if I thought I'd do many road-trips or not).
The DC5, as standard, is a real weapon - stiff, pointy, alert, MEGA quick point-to-point (although a little bit of a handful on B-roads). And the interior is a huge step-up from the DC2.
But it lacks the ultimate composure of the DC2, esp. when the road gets rough. And (for some more importantly) it lacks some of the feedback too - the DC2's steering is the best PAS set-up I've driven (a little better than a Mk1 Focus or a 306GTi) for feedback, and you get plenty of messages through the seat, too. DC5 steering is better than the EP3, but still feels a little 'inert' - better-weighted but without the 'patter' you get through a good set-up. Racer-steering rather than rally driver-steering, as evo recently commented.
Those who've driven the DC5 more say it lacks a little of the DC2's "on-limit magic". I can't comment on that. All I can say is they'd better have been testing it on-track, as the -5's limits are easily too high for the public road. DC2's limits, conversely, ARE very high but you can find them on the road without feeling like you're being an utter ****.
Finally, to Mr Smith - the JDM '98 isn't THAT much better than the UKDM - main differences are 16" wheels with retuned suspension and the 2.5" exhaust manifold (which gives an extra 10bhp on 100RON fuel - note the RON, though!). Little enough that I'd suggest buying on condition and on whichever looks the person prefers.
The run-out (very rare) JDM Type-Rx also added a few more toys, such as folding mirrors.
GruntyDC5 said:
Unless you live in Aberdeen. The place is crawling with them.
Yep, I noticed that most of the outfits importing the DC5 model aer based around there, which is pain as i live about 400 miles away. There's a new import company in Dover, which is alot nearer to London .. has anyone used them?cirian75 said:
DC2 seems to be the one I would want
steering better than a 306 GTI, I want some of that!
how good are they with the old tin worm (rust)
Rust is the achilles heal of Honda's of this era. Find one that's been treated and you won't go far wrong. A phrase you hear all the time, buy on condition - not mileage. steering better than a 306 GTI, I want some of that!
how good are they with the old tin worm (rust)
cirian75 said:
So if I do find a good low rust one
Wizz it down to chassis clean in Altrincham for the full Dinitrol treatment ?
Exactly. The rear arches rust from the inside out, so be mindful of this. If rust is showing on the outside, you can guarantee it'll be worse on the inside. I'm not trying to put you off, but typically you'll be dealing with 16 year old cars that have seen Winter roads.Wizz it down to chassis clean in Altrincham for the full Dinitrol treatment ?
Edited by cirian75 on Thursday 20th June 15:43
8400rpm said:
Making it all dumbed down as much as possible.
Driving a DC5 is like driving a DC2, but with boxing gloves on and cotton wool in your ears.
Feels the same, but is all watered down..
Good summary. The 2 is a fantastic car. Without doubt one of the best drivers' cars ever. The 5 feels like a very good hot hatch in comparison. Driving a DC5 is like driving a DC2, but with boxing gloves on and cotton wool in your ears.
Feels the same, but is all watered down..
What age are you and what sort of driving will you be doing? Traffic/commute/A roads/Track days/Motorway etc.
I've owned a DC2 and driven a DC5 many times. These days i think i would prefer a DC5, but maybe i am getting old. Its more useable, modern, comfortable. Its still a quick animal and very capable, but its also easier to live with day to day.
The DC2 was amazing, but it could be awful on the wrong road and tiring sometimes.
I've owned a DC2 and driven a DC5 many times. These days i think i would prefer a DC5, but maybe i am getting old. Its more useable, modern, comfortable. Its still a quick animal and very capable, but its also easier to live with day to day.
The DC2 was amazing, but it could be awful on the wrong road and tiring sometimes.
Thought I'd stick in my 2 cents having owned both over the last 9 years. Had a DC2 for 4 years and it is more of a communicative car, you can kinda trust it more about telling you available grip and whether you're approaching its limits, more supple, more flowing along a country road, just concentrate on keeping that engine on fire. The DC5 is much more of a modern drive in comparison, kinda more chunky. There's more grip, especially at the rear end making it not as lift offy as the 2. The 5 seems more about using the front end with its dartier, quicker steering and the more pronounced action from the diff. The other main attraction is the 6 speed box making 4th a much more usable gear (80-100 seems like it take half the time). In a straight line id say the 5 is quicker in every situation in any case, just not by much.
Ummm...that's a tough call. And yes the FD2 replaces the DC2 - needed a 4-door car so either the NSX or DC2 went...which was strangely a harder choice than you'd think!
My FD2 is running on AST suspension, not OE*, so possibly not entirely representative...but then I'd guess 75% of UK cars have modified suspension of some sort... Comparison vs FD2 and MkV GTi as follows:-
- Steering is hyper-responsive - not a super-quick rack like a TVR or S2000, just zero slack in the system...and I do mean zero - I want to get underneath and see if it's rose-jointed not bushed!!! You dial-into it pretty quick, so it's not a problem, but be aware it makes other cars seem 'lazy' afterwards. Feedback not a patch on the DC2, but better than the Golf.
- Throttle response is typical modern DBW - all the response in the top 50% of pedal-travel, like you've got a "Sport" button permanently pressed. Contributes to the "up for it" style of the car, but does mean you need to concentrate to drive smoothly, certainly if you've not got the right shoes on, and doesn't make HnT as intuitive as the DC2...but pedals are better-spaced than the Golf and the brake-pedal is a better platform for HnT. There's also no slack at the top of the pedal, so coming from another car you over-rev for the first 100yds.
- Brakes show similar stopping power to DC2, despite 4-pot Brembos up-front. Initial response not quite as good but once warm they're good and they're beautifully progressive. But to be fair I've not driven a 'mainstream/affordable' road car that has better standard brakes than a DC2, Lotuses excepted.
- Gearshift is very EP3/DC5 - excellent, nice weight/throw/precision. Gate is offset slightly towards the driver vs most other cars I've driven, which makes picking 1st from 3rd tricky initially, but again you pick it up within a few miles.
- Chassis is where I'm a little torn. Push it REALLY hard and the back end gets in on the act in a semi-DC2 way, quelling any understeer through fast corners before it even appears. Smooth / reasonable tarmac in 3rd and 4th gear and the car is SUPERB...like a grown-up DC2...I'd expect this car to take some serious scalps on-track. In the wet the back-end feels even looser (might just be my car's geo), which is fun but not relaxing if you're trying to push in the wet (to be fair, if you're doing that then you should be on your game), but never snappy. Think of it as a DC2-R-R, I guess...
- Traction...is a little disappointing, coming from a DC2. Even with the diff, you'll get some understeer out of roundabouts if you nail it in 2nd (NEVER did in either of my 'tegs) - extra torque and MacPherson struts not double-wishbones to blame, I guess...but whereas in the dry the DC2 just didn't know understeer, the FD2 needs to be coaxed through 2nd gear corners. Similar story off the line in 1st as well - need to pour the power in more than the DC2. Not as bad as the Golf (nor the EP3), but not as infallible as you'd expect a diff-equipped car to be...
- Torque steer...exists, but is a gentle writhing not a proper 'pulling' at the wheel. A little unruly but not nasty...
- Driving position is very good - cabin is driver-focused, controls are in the right places, visibility pretty good (except you've no idea where the bonnet is!) Seat not as good as the DC2's Recaros - a little wider in the cushion, which is nice, but it's got the lever-operated back-tilt like the EP3, which makes it harder to find the right back position, plus you find yourself 'slouching' inadvertently a little more and having to straighten up - I guess the stiffer cushion means more submarining-effect.
- Interior not quite as nice as the Golf but better than even DC5 (DC2 IS archaic) and nicely spacious...similar interior room to Golf, probably an extra inch or so rear legroom, stowage bit better than Golf, boot bigger than E90 saloon with decent aperture. but no folding seats.
- Costs-wise it should have good residuals and will hopefully be typical Honda to run. But then the DC2 won't depreciate if looked after and the Golf's residuals are class-leading. So it's just 2x insurance/tax/MOT to consider in your position.
If the above sounds like I've got a downer on the car to some degree, then I've probably overstated the negatives - it's a real driver's car and is very enjoyable (and a lot more interesting than e.g. a 330i - perhaps no better as an overall ownership experience, but something to make each drive more interesting than it otherwise would be, just like the DC2), it just feels very 'modern' (I'm an analogue chap when it comes to driving, despite being <40) and perhaps a little too stiff / track focused for a 4-door saloon... But compare it to a Megane R26R and I'm sure the +ve's/-ve's would be very different...
My 2p for you is I miss the DC2 - I've done 9 years and nearly 100k across 2 of them, know the car inside out and consider it to be the pinnacle of FWD motoring, bar nothing. If you don't need to sell yours (and assuming it's a good one), then I probably wouldn't. But if you want to change to 1-car only, and you'll do some trackdays in it, then I'd definitely have a very good look at the FD2 - it's as close to a 4-door 'teg as you'll find...
I'm hoping to do some back-to-backs with a friend and his RX8, which should prove informative from a different side of things. Will let you know...
* OE rear dampers are woeful for bumpy UK roads, original Litchfields' solution was replace springs and dampers all round - stiffer springs, adjustable dampers. Current club consensus is stick with OE all-round except for rear dampers, where you fit Koni Yellows. I've got some OE suspension and am going to try this later in the summer as the ASTs are a little TOO stiff for UK bumpy B-roads, meaning you often need to back off shortly before you get to licence-losing speeds as the car feels like it's struggling to keep up with the road...
My FD2 is running on AST suspension, not OE*, so possibly not entirely representative...but then I'd guess 75% of UK cars have modified suspension of some sort... Comparison vs FD2 and MkV GTi as follows:-
- Steering is hyper-responsive - not a super-quick rack like a TVR or S2000, just zero slack in the system...and I do mean zero - I want to get underneath and see if it's rose-jointed not bushed!!! You dial-into it pretty quick, so it's not a problem, but be aware it makes other cars seem 'lazy' afterwards. Feedback not a patch on the DC2, but better than the Golf.
- Throttle response is typical modern DBW - all the response in the top 50% of pedal-travel, like you've got a "Sport" button permanently pressed. Contributes to the "up for it" style of the car, but does mean you need to concentrate to drive smoothly, certainly if you've not got the right shoes on, and doesn't make HnT as intuitive as the DC2...but pedals are better-spaced than the Golf and the brake-pedal is a better platform for HnT. There's also no slack at the top of the pedal, so coming from another car you over-rev for the first 100yds.
- Brakes show similar stopping power to DC2, despite 4-pot Brembos up-front. Initial response not quite as good but once warm they're good and they're beautifully progressive. But to be fair I've not driven a 'mainstream/affordable' road car that has better standard brakes than a DC2, Lotuses excepted.
- Gearshift is very EP3/DC5 - excellent, nice weight/throw/precision. Gate is offset slightly towards the driver vs most other cars I've driven, which makes picking 1st from 3rd tricky initially, but again you pick it up within a few miles.
- Chassis is where I'm a little torn. Push it REALLY hard and the back end gets in on the act in a semi-DC2 way, quelling any understeer through fast corners before it even appears. Smooth / reasonable tarmac in 3rd and 4th gear and the car is SUPERB...like a grown-up DC2...I'd expect this car to take some serious scalps on-track. In the wet the back-end feels even looser (might just be my car's geo), which is fun but not relaxing if you're trying to push in the wet (to be fair, if you're doing that then you should be on your game), but never snappy. Think of it as a DC2-R-R, I guess...
- Traction...is a little disappointing, coming from a DC2. Even with the diff, you'll get some understeer out of roundabouts if you nail it in 2nd (NEVER did in either of my 'tegs) - extra torque and MacPherson struts not double-wishbones to blame, I guess...but whereas in the dry the DC2 just didn't know understeer, the FD2 needs to be coaxed through 2nd gear corners. Similar story off the line in 1st as well - need to pour the power in more than the DC2. Not as bad as the Golf (nor the EP3), but not as infallible as you'd expect a diff-equipped car to be...
- Torque steer...exists, but is a gentle writhing not a proper 'pulling' at the wheel. A little unruly but not nasty...
- Driving position is very good - cabin is driver-focused, controls are in the right places, visibility pretty good (except you've no idea where the bonnet is!) Seat not as good as the DC2's Recaros - a little wider in the cushion, which is nice, but it's got the lever-operated back-tilt like the EP3, which makes it harder to find the right back position, plus you find yourself 'slouching' inadvertently a little more and having to straighten up - I guess the stiffer cushion means more submarining-effect.
- Interior not quite as nice as the Golf but better than even DC5 (DC2 IS archaic) and nicely spacious...similar interior room to Golf, probably an extra inch or so rear legroom, stowage bit better than Golf, boot bigger than E90 saloon with decent aperture. but no folding seats.
- Costs-wise it should have good residuals and will hopefully be typical Honda to run. But then the DC2 won't depreciate if looked after and the Golf's residuals are class-leading. So it's just 2x insurance/tax/MOT to consider in your position.
If the above sounds like I've got a downer on the car to some degree, then I've probably overstated the negatives - it's a real driver's car and is very enjoyable (and a lot more interesting than e.g. a 330i - perhaps no better as an overall ownership experience, but something to make each drive more interesting than it otherwise would be, just like the DC2), it just feels very 'modern' (I'm an analogue chap when it comes to driving, despite being <40) and perhaps a little too stiff / track focused for a 4-door saloon... But compare it to a Megane R26R and I'm sure the +ve's/-ve's would be very different...
My 2p for you is I miss the DC2 - I've done 9 years and nearly 100k across 2 of them, know the car inside out and consider it to be the pinnacle of FWD motoring, bar nothing. If you don't need to sell yours (and assuming it's a good one), then I probably wouldn't. But if you want to change to 1-car only, and you'll do some trackdays in it, then I'd definitely have a very good look at the FD2 - it's as close to a 4-door 'teg as you'll find...
I'm hoping to do some back-to-backs with a friend and his RX8, which should prove informative from a different side of things. Will let you know...
* OE rear dampers are woeful for bumpy UK roads, original Litchfields' solution was replace springs and dampers all round - stiffer springs, adjustable dampers. Current club consensus is stick with OE all-round except for rear dampers, where you fit Koni Yellows. I've got some OE suspension and am going to try this later in the summer as the ASTs are a little TOO stiff for UK bumpy B-roads, meaning you often need to back off shortly before you get to licence-losing speeds as the car feels like it's struggling to keep up with the road...
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