Quality of life in Switzerland?
Discussion
Hi all you Swiss PHers, just looking for some feedback on an opportunity to move over there, near to Lausanne.
Moved with wife and 3 kids from the countryside outside Paris to the heat of Miami a couple of years ago. My wife loves the infernal heat of Florida but the dog and I agree, it's the pits. We now have an opportunity to be relocated back to Europe.
I'm in favour - lakes, mountains and cooler weather are more my kind of environment. The kids all speak English and French, so fitting into the educational system in Switzerland shouldn't be too much of a barrier. One of my wife's misgivings is that we have got green cards for residency here in the US, and these will obviously be lost if we move back.
So all that background info to ask in general about the quality of life in Switzerland, how bad are the taxes, is the Swiss education system reckoned to be good (without going to the expense of fancy private schools)? Thanks for any feedback.
Moved with wife and 3 kids from the countryside outside Paris to the heat of Miami a couple of years ago. My wife loves the infernal heat of Florida but the dog and I agree, it's the pits. We now have an opportunity to be relocated back to Europe.
I'm in favour - lakes, mountains and cooler weather are more my kind of environment. The kids all speak English and French, so fitting into the educational system in Switzerland shouldn't be too much of a barrier. One of my wife's misgivings is that we have got green cards for residency here in the US, and these will obviously be lost if we move back.
So all that background info to ask in general about the quality of life in Switzerland, how bad are the taxes, is the Swiss education system reckoned to be good (without going to the expense of fancy private schools)? Thanks for any feedback.
Cannot comment on the quality of life (schools etc) but I love the Lausanne area ( will be heading there in the near future for a break). Sensational scenery, great weather in the summer (the vineyards nearby give a clue as to the climate). A relatively undiscovered part of France (Franche Comté), we have had a second home there for 25 years, is a short drive away - fantastic deserted roads, great charcuterie & cheeses, lovely regional dishes in characterful restaurants. Great for an outdoorsy lifestyle.
I wish I had your opportunity!
I wish I had your opportunity!
Take a look at www.englishforum.ch you will find all of your questions and more on there. Just don't ask can I survive on CHF xK per year. It really winds them up.
I live in the German part, but was over near Lausanne a couple of weekends ago. Seems like a whole other country to here. It was very nice, but the comparatively outrageous taxes would put me off living there.
I live in the German part, but was over near Lausanne a couple of weekends ago. Seems like a whole other country to here. It was very nice, but the comparatively outrageous taxes would put me off living there.
eyebeebe said:
Take a look at www.englishforum.ch you will find all of your questions and more on there. Just don't ask can I survive on CHF xK per year. It really winds them up.
I live in the German part, but was over near Lausanne a couple of weekends ago. Seems like a whole other country to here. It was very nice, but the comparatively outrageous taxes would put me off living there.
Englishforum.ch seems to be just a nest of sandal wearing joghurt knitters who're living in their socialist dream world. similar to mumsnet. Don't mention cars to them either........I live in the German part, but was over near Lausanne a couple of weekends ago. Seems like a whole other country to here. It was very nice, but the comparatively outrageous taxes would put me off living there.
JMGS4 said:
Englishforum.ch seems to be just a nest of sandal wearing joghurt knitters who're living in their socialist dream world. similar to mumsnet. Don't mention cars to them either........
By and large yes. If you ignore their subjective views and use it for fact gathering it can be pretty useful. There are a few petrol heads on there too. I was out with one of them in his Morgan last weekend.
That's quite a move!
So all that background info to ask in general about the quality of life in Switzerland > Great, but probably very quite compared to living in Miami. And much colder at times.
how bad are the taxes > not that bad compared to France or UK, but prepared to find a good accountant who can do your tax returns
is the Swiss education system reckoned to be good (without going to the expense of fancy private schools)> No 1st hand experience, but I've been told its not desirable due to a heavy vocational slant. Others may have more info on that part.
Good luck with deciding!
So all that background info to ask in general about the quality of life in Switzerland > Great, but probably very quite compared to living in Miami. And much colder at times.
how bad are the taxes > not that bad compared to France or UK, but prepared to find a good accountant who can do your tax returns
is the Swiss education system reckoned to be good (without going to the expense of fancy private schools)> No 1st hand experience, but I've been told its not desirable due to a heavy vocational slant. Others may have more info on that part.
Good luck with deciding!
Thank you all for input, that Brit in cuckoo clock land forum is full of useful info and links if we decide to do deeper research on the option.
Now I just have to convince my dear wife that leaving the heat and mosquitoes of Miami can only be a positive thing. Of course, winter has just arrived here so suddenly it is cooler and quite pleasant, screwing up my "let's get out of this hellhole!" argument. Having the money and type of job that allows you to be a snowbird would be the best of both worlds, summer in a place you love then Florida or equivalent to over-winter!
Now I just have to convince my dear wife that leaving the heat and mosquitoes of Miami can only be a positive thing. Of course, winter has just arrived here so suddenly it is cooler and quite pleasant, screwing up my "let's get out of this hellhole!" argument. Having the money and type of job that allows you to be a snowbird would be the best of both worlds, summer in a place you love then Florida or equivalent to over-winter!
The swiss education system is world class, just be prepared to learn swissgerman or "welsch" with the kids. it's now law in CH the kids must learn in "their" versions of french and german.
ALSO know that the swiss ALWAYS do things by the book, even more pernickerty than "ze chermanns", so if you don't like interfereing neighbours, people who correct you at every step, look down their noses at those "misbehaving furriners", burocratic nonsense taken to the nth degree, then CH is not for you.....
If you think that busybody americans in various uniforms are annoying, wait till you meet a swiss.....
The one advantage of such systems is that if you know, or get to know, how to use it, then it works!!!!
OK, perhaps I'm painting it a bit too dark....... just that a canadian friend of mine, when visiting said, "Switzerland is a wonderful country, if it weren't for the Swiss"
ALSO know that the swiss ALWAYS do things by the book, even more pernickerty than "ze chermanns", so if you don't like interfereing neighbours, people who correct you at every step, look down their noses at those "misbehaving furriners", burocratic nonsense taken to the nth degree, then CH is not for you.....
If you think that busybody americans in various uniforms are annoying, wait till you meet a swiss.....
The one advantage of such systems is that if you know, or get to know, how to use it, then it works!!!!
OK, perhaps I'm painting it a bit too dark....... just that a canadian friend of mine, when visiting said, "Switzerland is a wonderful country, if it weren't for the Swiss"
I've lived in both the French and German parts of Switzerland. They're very different.
Weather: Lausanne has decent weather. The summer is very pleasant. We used to spend a lot of the summer in (friends) boats on the lake, swimming and drinking the local wine. The winter is great if you love winter sports. From Lausanne you probably would go to the Valais. Then the winters are sunny. The worst month is November when you haven't the sun in the valleys nor the mountains.
Schooling. This depends on the canton to some degree. The Suisse Romande systems is influenced by France so children start earlier and go full-time sooner. There is the apprenticeship system like Germany but also a strong Gymnasium (Grammar School) system. A Swiss friend once said that you're OK if you're in a Canton with a university as they're more geared up to get children into Uni. Vaud has EPFL which is one of the world's better science universities (federal) and the University of Lausanne. The Valais doesn't from memory but GVA does. State therefore should be fine.
Tax: depends on the Commune but the French speaking part is higher than the German speaking part (unless you're negotiating your rate)
Healthcare: It's expensive. Geneva was much more expensive for us than Zurich. The quality is fantastic.
Other: there are some great festivals and they're very family-friendly. Montreux is well-worth visiting and we loved the Jazz festival at Cully and Paleo (an open-air festival near Nyon). The food in Suisse Romande is good and if you love french food you'll be very happy. It's do-able to go to Provence for the weekend from Lausanne.
Weather: Lausanne has decent weather. The summer is very pleasant. We used to spend a lot of the summer in (friends) boats on the lake, swimming and drinking the local wine. The winter is great if you love winter sports. From Lausanne you probably would go to the Valais. Then the winters are sunny. The worst month is November when you haven't the sun in the valleys nor the mountains.
Schooling. This depends on the canton to some degree. The Suisse Romande systems is influenced by France so children start earlier and go full-time sooner. There is the apprenticeship system like Germany but also a strong Gymnasium (Grammar School) system. A Swiss friend once said that you're OK if you're in a Canton with a university as they're more geared up to get children into Uni. Vaud has EPFL which is one of the world's better science universities (federal) and the University of Lausanne. The Valais doesn't from memory but GVA does. State therefore should be fine.
Tax: depends on the Commune but the French speaking part is higher than the German speaking part (unless you're negotiating your rate)
Healthcare: It's expensive. Geneva was much more expensive for us than Zurich. The quality is fantastic.
Other: there are some great festivals and they're very family-friendly. Montreux is well-worth visiting and we loved the Jazz festival at Cully and Paleo (an open-air festival near Nyon). The food in Suisse Romande is good and if you love french food you'll be very happy. It's do-able to go to Provence for the weekend from Lausanne.
Currently living not far from Lausanne, if you are serious about moving check out the cost of rental property first, (homegate.ch) it is a bit of a shock compared with the US! also cars are expensive, food is expensive and health care is very expensive ..you get the picture
However it is a fantastic place to live, quality of life is very high and the Swiss like to enjoy their leisure time and weekends rather than spend it at work! best thing for blokes is that all the shops are definitely shut on Sunday, and pretty much all the shops are shut by 6pm every other day too
However it is a fantastic place to live, quality of life is very high and the Swiss like to enjoy their leisure time and weekends rather than spend it at work! best thing for blokes is that all the shops are definitely shut on Sunday, and pretty much all the shops are shut by 6pm every other day too
Just another comment on swiss reactions to speeding, was in my local paper this morning. Apparently a german was caught doing 215kph (autobahn) in a 120 in Aargau. The prosecution have had the car seized, they want 20 months imprisonment, 4000 SFR fine AND the car!!!!
BE CAREFUL out there!
BE CAREFUL out there!
Whitean3 said:
One thing to bear in mind as well- if you are coming from the US and have green cards, you might also have to file US tax returns in addition to Swiss taxes- yes, that's right, you might have to pay double tax. Certainly something you should look into.
You may have to file a US tax return but that doesn't automagically mean you pay double tax - there are such things as earned income exclusions and foreign tax credits...Hi YankeePirker,
We have just moved Into the Canton of Vaud (Bursins, between Nyon and Rolle) and my wife and I work in Aubonne which is about 15 mins from Lausanne. Been here 10 weeks.
We were in the UK for 7 years prior to this move although our bricks and Mortar home is in Tououse, France.
My wife is French and my French is not bad so that helps massively. Speaking the lingo is important (or at least trying). Schools are excellent in general but obviously the language is important - support as I understand it is good but it is sink or swim I think ( like France).
Quality of life is good if expensive and rather wacky at times. Each Canton has it's own peculiar idiosyncrasies (such as not being allowed to wash your car in the street, change a wheel or even work on your car in a public place). I kid you not.
That said, if you are a car nut this country is for you. As I type this sitting on my balcony looking out over the lake to the mountains I have seen (so far this morning) the following drive past the road in front of us: A Muira, several Ferraris (common as muck here...including a Daytona and a GTO of some description), Austin Healey, A triumph stag, two Mk2 Jags, an E-Etype, Pontiac Transam, Dodge Charger (old one), Plymouth Roadrunner with that massive high tail...shed loads of Harley's. A normal Sunday morning
A doc below you might find useful.
http://www.vaud.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/_temp_/Br...
Any other questions by all means PM me. Good luck with it.
Dave
Edited to add:
Weather is glorious although we have yet to experience to winter months yet. Currently 23C and lovely.
Second hand cars are, despite what you are led to be live, quite cheap and there are bargains to be had. 85% of Swiss folk lease their cars so deals are all over the place which is why no one (apart from me) wants a second hand car.
Expensive items:
Medical insurance (a company issue possibly?) for you and your family, taxes in general are actually not too bad - higher than expected in some areas but lower than expected in others...it kind of evens out from our experience so far.
Rent is crazy - we pay £2000 a month (equivalent) for a nice but cosy 3 bed apartment. Three bed house starts at around £4k and reasonable four bed with garden at around £6k and up.
Food can be very expensive (meat!) but many here pop over to France (15 minute drive) to stock up although the Swiss police check cars coming back across. You are allowed up to 300 chf of foodstuff before they tax you on it...recent supermarket chains (Aldi etc) actually do great value food and the wine is cheap and good.
Eating out is crazy money. I took the family to a waterside pizza restaurant in Nyon and we had four pizzas, two cokes and a bottle of Rose...,£180. Normal pizza take away price is around 50 chf for two large pizzas (£18 each) as a guide (and no, we do t just eat pizzas
). I took my good lady out for a 'nice' meal (not top flight restaurant) last week and it was just under £200 for the two of us.
We have just moved Into the Canton of Vaud (Bursins, between Nyon and Rolle) and my wife and I work in Aubonne which is about 15 mins from Lausanne. Been here 10 weeks.
We were in the UK for 7 years prior to this move although our bricks and Mortar home is in Tououse, France.
My wife is French and my French is not bad so that helps massively. Speaking the lingo is important (or at least trying). Schools are excellent in general but obviously the language is important - support as I understand it is good but it is sink or swim I think ( like France).
Quality of life is good if expensive and rather wacky at times. Each Canton has it's own peculiar idiosyncrasies (such as not being allowed to wash your car in the street, change a wheel or even work on your car in a public place). I kid you not.
That said, if you are a car nut this country is for you. As I type this sitting on my balcony looking out over the lake to the mountains I have seen (so far this morning) the following drive past the road in front of us: A Muira, several Ferraris (common as muck here...including a Daytona and a GTO of some description), Austin Healey, A triumph stag, two Mk2 Jags, an E-Etype, Pontiac Transam, Dodge Charger (old one), Plymouth Roadrunner with that massive high tail...shed loads of Harley's. A normal Sunday morning
A doc below you might find useful.
http://www.vaud.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/_temp_/Br...
Any other questions by all means PM me. Good luck with it.
Dave
Edited to add:
Weather is glorious although we have yet to experience to winter months yet. Currently 23C and lovely.
Second hand cars are, despite what you are led to be live, quite cheap and there are bargains to be had. 85% of Swiss folk lease their cars so deals are all over the place which is why no one (apart from me) wants a second hand car.
Expensive items:
Medical insurance (a company issue possibly?) for you and your family, taxes in general are actually not too bad - higher than expected in some areas but lower than expected in others...it kind of evens out from our experience so far.
Rent is crazy - we pay £2000 a month (equivalent) for a nice but cosy 3 bed apartment. Three bed house starts at around £4k and reasonable four bed with garden at around £6k and up.
Food can be very expensive (meat!) but many here pop over to France (15 minute drive) to stock up although the Swiss police check cars coming back across. You are allowed up to 300 chf of foodstuff before they tax you on it...recent supermarket chains (Aldi etc) actually do great value food and the wine is cheap and good.
Eating out is crazy money. I took the family to a waterside pizza restaurant in Nyon and we had four pizzas, two cokes and a bottle of Rose...,£180. Normal pizza take away price is around 50 chf for two large pizzas (£18 each) as a guide (and no, we do t just eat pizzas
). I took my good lady out for a 'nice' meal (not top flight restaurant) last week and it was just under £200 for the two of us.Edited by wile7 on Sunday 26th October 08:44
wile7 said:
Eating out is crazy money. I took the family to a waterside pizza restaurant in Nyon and we had four pizzas, two cokes and a bottle of Rose...,£180.
Jesus that's expensive! Can you break the prices down a bit please?In Zurich you wouldn't pay more than CHF 25 per pizza unless you start putting expensive ham or truffles on it. Two cokes isn't going to be more than CHF 15 in total (at the top end. More likely to be 10-11). Granted wine can be variable in price, but rosé is normally pretty reasonable. CHF 50-70. I'm struggling to make that to CHF 180 never mind £180, which is still ridiculous.
I posted a reply by in 2012 to another PH'er but most has been already said.
You get the get this book immediately.
http://www.amazon.com/Living-Working-Switzerland-S...
Back in 2012 I had the option to stay in CH or move to Miami. Having asked a few colleagues, including some from Switzerland who live over there, they all recommended it. In then end we stayed but sounds to me like it will be a change but not better or worse.
You get the get this book immediately.
http://www.amazon.com/Living-Working-Switzerland-S...
Back in 2012 I had the option to stay in CH or move to Miami. Having asked a few colleagues, including some from Switzerland who live over there, they all recommended it. In then end we stayed but sounds to me like it will be a change but not better or worse.
JMGS4 said:
Just another comment on swiss reactions to speeding, was in my local paper this morning. Apparently a german was caught doing 215kph (autobahn) in a 120 in Aargau. The prosecution have had the car seized, they want 20 months imprisonment, 4000 SFR fine AND the car!!!!
BE CAREFUL out there!
the swiss rules make me sick , beautiful country crap rules sBE CAREFUL out there!
tty rulersJMGS4 said:
eyebeebe said:
Take a look at www.englishforum.ch you will find all of your questions and more on there. Just don't ask can I survive on CHF xK per year. It really winds them up.
I live in the German part, but was over near Lausanne a couple of weekends ago. Seems like a whole other country to here. It was very nice, but the comparatively outrageous taxes would put me off living there.
Englishforum.ch seems to be just a nest of sandal wearing joghurt knitters who're living in their socialist dream world. similar to mumsnet. Don't mention cars to them either........I live in the German part, but was over near Lausanne a couple of weekends ago. Seems like a whole other country to here. It was very nice, but the comparatively outrageous taxes would put me off living there.
vxr8jaye said:
the swiss rules make me sick , beautiful country crap rules stty rulers
To be fair 80% above the posted limit is opening yourself up to stiff penalties in any country. A bit ironic that it was a German citizen as well - in many places he could have done that with impunity at home.tty rulersIf you don't like a country's laws either don't visit or vote to change them.
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