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fridaypassion

Original Poster:

2,791 posts

115 months

[news] 
Tuesday 25th September 2012 quote quote all
Having done a few TF trips myself and a couple of the party we were with this year decided we would like to try a closed trackday at the ring just as a way of trying to really get to know the circuit and push that little bit harder that its sensible to on a TF day.

Ideally a day when the track is open during the same weekend for TF would be good and also if there are any organisers that will split days so you can book a half day? I think a full day would be a bit much for me personally.

flobalob

50 posts

30 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th September 2012 quote quote all
Me and my mates are in a similar position. Have been 5 or 6 times now on tourist days only ( both bikes and cars ), and next year going the trackday route. Probably all gonna do the Nurburgring 700 trip if we can reserve our place intime as the £1000 for 2 people and a car isnt bad value really. Tourist laps are so stupidly expensive now and the penalties for any little mishap are so atrociously high that a trackday seems a so much better deal. Plus limited amount of cars allowed on track means not having to fight your way around the bikes/buses/morons/clueless novices.

Porkie

2,358 posts

128 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th September 2012 quote quote all
A full day won't be too much at all for you.

The only problem with the trackdays... is that you won't ever wanna do TF again afterwards.


The best ones I have done are the DN days where they combine the GP track and the old Ring... so you start on the GP track and use the nice open pits facility... do a lap of the GP and then have choice to go around again... or go left onto Ring.

Awesome.

Next one is in a few weeks. Cant wait.

Jamesp24

270 posts

57 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th September 2012 quote quote all
Yup ive never done TF and don't ever intend to,going back for my 4th trackday there in a couple of weeks.excited abit.

fridaypassion

Original Poster:

2,791 posts

115 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th September 2012 quote quote all
Hmm I guess it depends what you are going for. For the whole Nurburgring experience you have to do TF. If you havent done TF you have missed out! Yes its scary but its bloody thrilling. I cant imagine theres all that much to discuss over a steak on a stone after a trackday.

I just feel after so many TF visits its time to get to know the track a bit better. I've clocked up 40 odd laps but I would like to go there and dare to be a bit braver/faster and not be so preoccupied about watching my mirrors!
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tertius

4,939 posts

117 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th September 2012 quote quote all
I've done several of the Destination Nurburgring days and lots of TF days. They are quite different experiences really.

Although I understand why people like the VLN circuit and having the GP pits available, I personally prefer a NS only track day - the GP circuit really does nothing for me and due to the layout of the pit exit/entrance you end up doing two laps of the GP circuit for every one of the Nordschleife.

krallicious

3,045 posts

92 months

[news] 
Wednesday 26th September 2012 quote quote all
I have done Tf for a few years now but started with trackdays last year. DN run great events and I have done half of them so far. If you manage around 16 laps then you 'break even' but you get to drive on the NS with marshalls and free recovery!

I have only done 1 TF day since Easter 2010 and will not be doing anymore as it is not worth the risk IMO.

Porkie

2,358 posts

128 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
fridaypassion said:
I cant imagine theres all that much to discuss over a steak on a stone after a trackday.
Are you serious? You couldn't be more wrong if you tried!

At the trackdays you get PROPER cars and Proper raceteams there as well... you get magazines bringing cool cars over to film and feature. Chris Harris was at last DN day with a pair of the new Nobles and the nutty Atom V8... and of course he was in the bar afterwards and is as nice a bloke in real life and as big a petrolhead as he comes accross in the videos

being on track with some mental and LEGENDARY machines is soooo cool. I was following around a fire spitting full on Race 993 GT2 with a spoiler the size of wales... (and out dragging it!) You get to play with alot of the famous VLN cars as well!

The previous time at DN I was overtaken at Mach 9 by the record breaking Ferrari 599XX that was testing there....

You are freely allowed to still film as well so always people watching stuff in the bar after.

So LOTS to talk about!!!!

I used to love TF... but the fact is the insurance situation as regards to third party coverage scares me now. I can deal with stuffing any of my cars... I just dont wanna get landed with £100,000,000,000,000's worth of pain coz I biker paralysing himself on some oil that alledgely has come from my car...

The stoppages can be so annoying all the time... and I REALLY dont like being on track with Bikes.

I do still occasionally do TF (like the sunday before a DN day) but now I normally hire a car from Dale now rather than using one of my own due to the insurance situation... and as cool and as fun as the Dales rentals are.... nothing beats your own pride and joy on the worlds greatest track


JordanVXR

137 posts

54 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
^^ What this Guy said ^^


tertius

4,939 posts

117 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
Porkie said:
The previous time at DN I was overtaken at Mach 9 by the record breaking Ferrari 599XX that was testing there....

You are freely allowed to still film as well so always people watching stuff in the bar after.
Ha ha so true. I have the 599XX on video passing me up Kesselchen - I was foot to the floor in my Elise and it went past like I was standing still, it's only in shot for about 2 seconds!

fridaypassion

Original Poster:

2,791 posts

115 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
Porkie said:
Are you serious? You couldn't be more wrong if you tried!

At the trackdays you get PROPER cars and Proper raceteams there as well... you get magazines bringing cool cars over to film and feature. Chris Harris was at last DN day with a pair of the new Nobles and the nutty Atom V8... and of course he was in the bar afterwards and is as nice a bloke in real life and as big a petrolhead as he comes accross in the videos

being on track with some mental and LEGENDARY machines is soooo cool. I was following around a fire spitting full on Race 993 GT2 with a spoiler the size of wales... (and out dragging it!) You get to play with alot of the famous VLN cars as well!

The previous time at DN I was overtaken at Mach 9 by the record breaking Ferrari 599XX that was testing there....

You are freely allowed to still film as well so always people watching stuff in the bar after.

So LOTS to talk about!!!!

I used to love TF... but the fact is the insurance situation as regards to third party coverage scares me now. I can deal with stuffing any of my cars... I just dont wanna get landed with £100,000,000,000,000's worth of pain coz I biker paralysing himself on some oil that alledgely has come from my car...

The stoppages can be so annoying all the time... and I REALLY dont like being on track with Bikes.

I do still occasionally do TF (like the sunday before a DN day) but now I normally hire a car from Dale now rather than using one of my own due to the insurance situation... and as cool and as fun as the Dales rentals are.... nothing beats your own pride and joy on the worlds greatest track
Point taken. I might be surprised. The TD we watched on our latest trip just had a load of cars on it that had been at the TF sessions. The track was very quiet which is whats appealing really. Still cant see it coming anywhere near the buzz that you get on public weekends but I should find out next year when we get booked!

DiscoColin

2,838 posts

101 months

[news] 
Thursday 27th September 2012 quote quote all
If anything there is more to discuss after a track day as you can generally always get the full story on whatever went on rather than just seeing another bent Focus leave on the Bongard truck with too few wheels still attached. Personally I am completely sold of track days as the way to do the 'ring and have not yet failed to turn up for a DN day. I do still like TF, but for that I find that it is cheaper, less stressful and more fun to do it in a cheap Rent4Ring car than to drive mine even before addressing the insurance issues.

Pip1968

545 posts

91 months

[news] 
Friday 28th September 2012 quote quote all
I have only done one Nordschleife track day and that was the one in March with DN. It is nice to have the GP track tagged to it although I have to say that the Touristfahrt (TF) days are slightly more exciting probably due to extra risk. Each to their own of course. Some are more prone to risk than others. Many like a 'safe' bet.

Perhaps I need to do some more closed track days but sometimes caught in a traffic jam surrounded by some fabulous cars and working your way through it safely can be quite a buzz. I should add that I have been going to TF for the last four years and going at least twice a year.

I shall continue to do both until I run out of money or get a bill for 100,000,000,000. Personally I cannot believe that nobody has had the balls to take the British insurance industry to court over the insurance fiasco. Insurers are either bound to insure drivers on all the roads in Europe or they are not.

Pip

ringweekends

499 posts

140 months

[news] 
Friday 28th September 2012 quote quote all
Pip1968 said:
I have to say that the Touristfahrt (TF) days are slightly more exciting probably due to extra risk. Each to their own of course. Some are more prone to risk than others. Many like a 'safe' bet.
I know exactly what you mean.

Wh00sher

716 posts

105 months

[news] 
Friday 28th September 2012 quote quote all
I`ve done over 1,300 laps on TF and a DN trackday last year, I really enjoy TF and also thoroughly enjoyed the trackday.

Unless you have castiron insurance in place, I wouldn`t even consider TF, but lets assume you are one of the lucky ones who DO have written TF insurance cover.


What do I think a ring trackday offers that TF doesn`t ?

Flying laps, you can do more than one lap on the bounce if you want, no need to queue to get into the carpark as on TF, just keep going flat out along DH.

MUCH fewer vehicles on circuit, I found this was the biggest difference compared to TF, I was able to drive on my line much more than usual, there are many more opportunities for clear laps.

Fewer vehicles meant no issues getting into the carpark between lapping. There is always somewhere to park !

No bikers or coaches. I quite enjoy some laps with bikes, but many don`t.

You can video, without having to hide the camera going through the barriers.

Being on circuit with some epic, non road legal cars. Being passed by some exotica, on slicks is something that would never happen on TF, they wouldn`t be allowed on circuit !

Being able to run Slicks and a non-road legal car. No worries about being stopped by the marshalls for your non-standard car. So long as its safe, you can run it, for some people, this may be their only chance of driving their car on the ring.


If you DON`T have TF insurance, a trackday removes the whole issue of 3rd party insurance cover which for many attendees, is the biggest plus point of all.

It may seem expensive, but in the scheme of things, I don`t think they are at all.

DiscoColin

2,838 posts

101 months

[news] 
Friday 28th September 2012 quote quote all
Pip1968 said:
I shall continue to do both until I run out of money or get a bill for 100,000,000,000. Personally I cannot believe that nobody has had the balls to take the British insurance industry to court over the insurance fiasco. Insurers are either bound to insure drivers on all the roads in Europe or they are not.
This has been done 100,000,000,000 times (feel free to use the search) so I will just give the short version. Insurers will pay up as required to by European law. They can then sue you to recover all of their costs for violating the terms of the policy as they are allowed to by UK law. People have tried to take on the insurers over this and all have thus far failed (listen to AGTLaw on the subject - he has first hand knowledge of some of the cases). If your insurer says you aren't covered you are driving perfectly legally but with exposure to unlimited liability.

fridaypassion

Original Poster:

2,791 posts

115 months

[news] 
Saturday 29th September 2012 quote quote all
Yes this has actually happened on a couple of cases I have heard about.

As a slightly off topic comment I have heard a couple of people come back from the ring recently reporting that the track was quiet...Maybe the costs of TF are finally reaching a critical level? It was as busy as ever a month ago when I was there but I did note that the traffic management in the carpark was vastly improved since my previous visit 3 years previous so no queues really when the track was open.

Pip1968

545 posts

91 months

[news] 
Sunday 30th September 2012 quote quote all
Fridaypassion, I think that is quiet due to the lack of days allocated to Touristfahrt. Many go for the weekend and it is a long dri ve and expensive for many so when it is open for only two/three hours on a Saturday and a full day on Sunday it probably does not make it worthwhile. That and the likelyhood of wetter weather and of course the economic crisis. People are more careful what they spend their money on.

I went in August and usually travel across on Thursday and come back on Monday but with my availability went on a Satuday and back on Tuesday. Sunday was lashing with rain but the track was open all day. Monday was just open for 2/3 hours and was nice and quiet.

Just my opinion of course.

Disco - I did not realise they had been up in court and failed. What happened to human rights when you needed them - ? We're all doomed !!

Pip

fridaypassion

Original Poster:

2,791 posts

115 months

[news] 
Sunday 30th September 2012 quote quote all
Interesting. When we went this year we had an evening, 1/2 day, full day and it was busy as ever. Previous visits have been on the German/UK end of May bank holiday so mega busy!

agtlaw

3,070 posts

93 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
Insurance situation appears to be widely known. The Nurburgring insurance page on my website is the busiest page and it receives links from various car forums. I believe that it also ranks highly on google.

There hasn't been a contested court case (or none reported or that my extensive research has revealed). All cases I've dealt with (about 20) have either been paid in full with no comeback to the insured or settled before litigation commenced. All involved the TP being paid in full; even where the Nurburgring is expressly excluded on the certificate and or policy.

UK insurance ombudsman gave a non binding ruling in favour of the insurer's "pay out TP then recover from insured party" position in late 2010.


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