What pads for heavy car?

[mmm-five]

fushion julz said:

I do have a set of OEM Textars, too...They fade quite quickly on track and wear way too fast, but they are good enough for (fast) road use, although they do make the pedal feel softer and "longer"...I used to swap the pads over after every trackday...but can't be bothered anymore.

When I said they weren't 'road legal', I simply meant they don't have the 'certification' required for road use (similar to the difference between road legal track tyres, and out & out motorsport tyres), rather than not being suitable. So it could be an issue for an insurance company in the even of an accident - e.g. car has 'illegal' pads fitted which don't have the initial bite of OEM pads, thus you couldn't stop in time. Unlikely, but you never know with insurance companies.

I used to have fast road pads for the road, and DS3000 for the track on a 1700kg e34 M5 - although the floating caliper design on those meant it was wheel off, retaining pin out, pad out, pad in, retaining pin in, wheel on. As it was always done in parallel with a wheel change (road wheels & tyres to track wheels & tyres) it took next to no time, especially with a cordless impact gun.

I use non ECE R90 pads in my current road car too (1500kg Z4MC) as I get a very good price on them which makes them cheaper than OEM .

[nielsen]

bulldog5046 said:

My E36 328 runs RS29's and they really do not wear quickly. I've done a few thousand miles on them and they look maybe 15% worn?

weight is about 1250kg's + driver, stopping power is immense with porsche 911 4 pots.

I've heard a pair RS29's will go though 2 pairs of disc's, which is scary when the E46M3 disc's i use are something like £350 a pair!

I have used Pagid RS19 and RS29's for the last 8 years and they can be hard on the rotors, but only if everything gets to hot / the brake setup is to small to cope with the abuse you give it.
My rotors normaly take 3 to 5 sets of pads before they get changed.

[fushion julz]

mmm-five said:

When I said they weren't 'road legal', I simply meant they don't have the 'certification' required for road use (similar to the difference between road legal track tyres, and out & out motorsport tyres), rather than not being suitable. So it could be an issue for an insurance company in the even of an accident - e.g. car has 'illegal' pads fitted which don't have the initial bite of OEM pads, thus you couldn't stop in time. Unlikely, but you never know with insurance companies.

I used to have fast road pads for the road, and DS3000 for the track on a 1700kg e34 M5 - although the floating caliper design on those meant it was wheel off, retaining pin out, pad out, pad in, retaining pin in, wheel on. As it was always done in parallel with a wheel change (road wheels & tyres to track wheels & tyres) it took next to no time, especially with a cordless impact gun.

I use non ECE R90 pads in my current road car too (1500kg Z4MC) as I get a very good price on them which makes them cheaper than OEM .

I'm glad, then, that my classic, agreed value policy has all modifications (including the DS2500 pads) included and notified.

[mmm-five]

fushion julz said:

I'm glad, then, that my classic, agreed value policy has all modifications (including the DS2500 pads) included and notified.

Definitely worth ensuring the insurer knows everything, even if it doesn't affect the premium. Just got to make sure they actually have 'recorded' everything - even if it's only in a notes section.

I told mine about the pads and they didn't care - just put a 'note' on my file so it wouldn't cause any issues.

Will be going for a track-friendly insurer next time though, as individual track day insurance is not cheap (for a daily driver, road car).

[fushion julz]

mmm-five said:

Definitely worth ensuring the insurer knows everything, even if it doesn't affect the premium. Just got to make sure they actually have 'recorded' everything - even if it's only in a notes section.

I told mine about the pads and they didn't care - just put a 'note' on my file so it wouldn't cause any issues.

Will be going for a track-friendly insurer next time though, as individual track day insurance is not cheap (for a daily driver, road car).

Oh, they do...I had to fill out a form that detailed all the mods and any details about the car/upgrades/flaws, etc...I have a photocopy of that form and the agreed valuation, etc, in the file.

TBH, I've not heard of a specific regulation regarding brake pad materials and would take the view that a statement from a manufacturer as well respected as Ferodo that the pads are suitable for road use (as is the case for the DS2500 but not for the DS3000) to be sufficient.

I wonder how many cars are running around with the owners not even knowing that the pads fitted by an independent mechanic at a regular service are not ECE compliant.

[Brummmie]

The problem with "not for road use" pads is that alot of the time they have high metal content.
This is not very practical when the snow, salt and general road sh!te gets into the compound and causes corrosion, then the pad can break up or delaminate.
The compounds that i supply do work very well from cold, and are ideal for hill climb situations, but however they do not like winter and road crud.
I only ever get problems when people use pads on road, eg put them away for long periods handbrake on, especially winter, the compound rusts to the disc, next time they set off..BANG, and a chunk comes off.
Race cars are never a problem, as even in wet weather the pads are hot and the compound never gets saturated.

If you use after market alloy race shocks on the road over winter, they look like a relic from Titanic after the crud has been at them, race products on the road in winter do not really go..

Hope this helps people make a more informed decision.

TUV legislation on pads only applies at countries where it is enforced, eg Germany, And they dont let you do anything!

Edited by Brummmie on Wednesday 3rd October 17:21

[Bladez]

gruffalo said:

How is the disc wearing with the RS6 pads, are they harsh?

No the the wear is fine.
The other thing I really like is that they have very strong bite from cold. I used CL RS5+ pads before and liked them but I noticed the extra bite of the RS6 as soon as I got to the end of my road after fitting them. I had to get used to braking softer...no kidding.
I've been told that it's important to make sure your brake fluid is fresh. You can have the best brake set up in the world but go on a track day and get some heat into the system you'll very quickly loose the brakes if the fluid is old.
I change mine 2-3 time a year.

[e21Mark]

Personally I would consider HAWK pads. I use them in my e30/s50 BMW and they've been excellent. At £90 a set they're not too expensive either and they do a specific road/trackday compound that works really well. When I bought this car it had EBC orange fitted and I thought there was something wrong with the brakes! They were bloody awful. Simply swapping to HAWK transformed things.

[dace]

Another vote for DS2500's. I used them on B5RS4 for years with no issues whatsoever!

I did over 35 track days and they never let me down once. As said they need to be warm first.

[nikolarun]

Driving a very very heavy car ( Jag XJR-S ) I use the Mintex 1155s on the front and standard pads on the rear (for stability reasons ). The 1155s are great when warm and hardly any fade.

[andyiley]

At the risk of repetition here is my experience, I drive an e36 328 with 300mm front discs & AP 4pot/standard rear disc & AP 2pot caliper set up.

I have tried most compounds between standard road Mintex/Ferodo & Pagid RS29 and laterly Ferodo DS UNO.

EBC I would not fit if you paid me, red blue and yellow were all terrible & were gone after 1/2 a track day, the standard road pads from Mintex/Ferodo were both better.

Mintex Extreme (when I could get them) were very good for the price, and lasted 3 trackdays & a Ring weekend.

DS2500 were pretty good, but only just lasted the day.

Mintex 1144 were similar.

Pagid RS29 were excellent & although they cost £230 they lasted nearly 6 months of at least 1 trackday/month & a Ring weekend, ao overall were good value for money & excellent performance, and they saved me at leaset 3 visits under the car to change pads.

I am now on Ferodo DS UNO, which allegedly will outlast the RS29, and were only £180 from Camskill, the only thing I can say so far, is their performance is VERY similar to the RS29, and they seem to be wearing less, more will be known in a few more trackdays.

[Rgm racer]

Ferodo DS UNO not heard of these, where are they/how do they compare to DS3000?

[Brummmie]

Try carbone Lorraine rc6E if you want pad life, I am supplying these to people who have been using Endless, and these are £1000 for a front set on an E-type!

[andyiley]

Rgm racer said:

Ferodo DS UNO not heard of these, where are they/how do they compare to DS3000?

Have a look here.

http://www.compfriction.com.au/ecommerce/?category...

they are many times better than the ds2500 I didn't actually try the ds3000

Edited by andyiley on Thursday 29th November 18:31

[Benbay001]

To track a 1800kg car, would that be financial suicide? never done a track day and really fancy it, but fear i may need to wait until i have a lighter car.

[jonnyleroux]

Benbay001 said:

To track a 1800kg car, would that be financial suicide? never done a track day and really fancy it, but fear i may need to wait until i have a lighter car.

Depends on your budget - plenty of people spending £5-10K per day running big race cars.

Cheaper to rent something lightweight than track something at 1800kgs though, even without thinking about risk/damage/depn etc

Jonny
BaT

[braddo]

jonnyleroux said:

Depends on your budget - plenty of people spending £5-10K per day running big race cars.

Cheaper to rent something lightweight than track something at 1800kgs though, even without thinking about risk/damage/depn etc

Jonny
BaT

If renting one of your cars is it allowed to also take one's own car on track (e.g. if the owner just wanted one session in his 1800kg road car)?

[andyiley]

Benbay001 said:

To track a 1800kg car, would that be financial suicide? never done a track day and really fancy it, but fear i may need to wait until i have a lighter car.

Personally, I don't see the problem.

A fully standard m3 weighs that, or more.

Just make sure your tyres are good, carry a spare set of brake pads & fit good ones with fresh fluid &have some fun.

[jonnyleroux]

braddo said:

If renting one of your cars is it allowed to also take one's own car on track (e.g. if the owner just wanted one session in his 1800kg road car)?

Of course. You can rent one of our cars and spend the whole day in your car if you like. Any time you spend in your car is time you're not spending in one of ours ;-)

Jonny
BaT

[weed]

e46m3c said:

I have emailed mr brummmie and will see how these fair.

Will probably go for the RS29. We shall see.

Think about doing all four corners plus some ducts in the front.
It's not fun switching to a race pad in front, overheating the street rear pads and having the resulting lack of rear brakes causing the new ones on the front to overheat and glaze.

m