Claim from a track day

[jeremybu]

I have, at last, had agreement in principle from a Lloyds Underwriter for Death and Injury liability cover.

We're just trying to agree the policy wording etc.

The best we could negotiate at this point is an annual policy allowing up to 8 trackdays as a day by day cover wasn't considered viable so this may not suit the casual TDer maybe only doing 2 or 3 per year.

Will report back when finalised.

[QBee]

Tongue hanging out here in interest. I do about 8 a year, plus some sprint events. Good luck and please keep us posted

[rovermorris999]

Yes, sounds interesting. Thanks for putting in the effort. It'll be interesting to see the premium after a proper risk analysis if the data exist to do such a thing.

[JQ]

Excellent news. Have they given any indication of the likely cost?

[jeremybu]

JQ - yes, we're hoping around £230 for the 8 days if UK and appropriate experience.

[Tonsko]

That sounds very reasonable.

[pingu393]

jeremybu said:

JQ - yes, we're hoping around £230 for the 8 days if UK and appropriate experience.

Seems a good price. Waiting to read what "appropriate experience" means. Excess?

Could this be underwritten to include damage to one's own vehicle, or would that be a separate policy?

[Pip1968]

Surely experience has to be something along the lines of membership of a club/driver training/estimated number of track days attended (and be able to provide some proof if need be ie event of a claim.

Pip

[jimbobs]

I can't help but think that this is money for old rope for the insurer.

How many people are killed or injured at UK trackdays every year? And when I say injured, I mean injured sufficiently to warrant a liability claim?

I know this is hardly something that TDOs will want to advertise, but it wouldn't surprise me if the number was near enough to zero. And I reckon, averaged over a few years, really really really close to zero.

So in order to need this policy, the following events will need to occur:
1) You cause an accident on a trackday (pretty bloody rare, but it does happen. Should have listened to the briefing)
2) The accident is severe enough to injure / kill another driver (see above, really really bloody rare)
3) You have to be found liable for the accident (see earlier discussions re allocating responsibility. You probably have a reasonable defence provided you haven't been an absolute tit)

If we multiply 1 (tiny) by 2 (miniscule) by 3 (pretty bloody unlikely) you get something that really is approaching the square root of bugger-all.


I may reside higher up the risk curve than some people, but I really can't see why anyone is losing any sleep over this. Keep your car in good nick, don't drive like a tit and the possibility of anyone claiming of you is miniscule in its infinitessimal tinyness.

And for this they want to charge £230 WITH appropriate experience???

[QBee]

Possibly their issue is that unless it is sold by the TDOs as a cheap but mandatory £5 add on when booking, the take up will probably be no more than say 1000 takers. At £230 a pop. £230,000 of premiums a year. They need to manage all the admin, say £30 a policy, that leaves £200,000 to pay claims.

To me that equates to about one fairly serious claim every ten years?
A biker was killed on a track day last year - I think it was Oulton Park - and I am afraid I can see someone getting accidentally punted into the Armco at speed at certain tracks. Oulton, Brands, Cadwell

I feel an equation featuring the square root of bugger all coming on.........

[Steve H]

QBee said:

To me that equates to about one fairly serious claim every ten years?
A biker was killed on a track day last year - I think it was Oulton Park - and I am afraid I can see someone getting accidentally punted into the Armco at speed at certain tracks. Oulton, Brands, Cadwell

This is true but assigning liability for negligence for such events in a trackday situation will drop the odds of a successful action significantly. I'd be surprised if they got anywhere near 1000 sales on this TBH.

[jeremybu]

The liability insurance policy has now been agreed and is live. I'm just waiting to see if the PH mods will allow me to post details on here.

[Rick101]

I have TD insurance on my road policy. It was explained to me as an extension of my FC cover, for tracks.

Is this policy offering something different? Have I been sold a pup by my current insurer?

[nickfrog]

jeremybu said:

The liability insurance policy has now been agreed and is live. I'm just waiting to see if the PH mods will allow me to post details on here.

Well done although the COR on that is unlikely to ever be under 100% after 18 months of UW work, even if there is never going to be a claim amongst the 4 of you who will ever buy into this book !

[QBee]

Rick101 said:

I have TD insurance on my road policy. It was explained to me as an extension of my FC cover, for tracks.

Is this policy offering something different? Have I been sold a pup by my current insurer?

That cover is solely for your car. Not for damage to third party cars, nor other people.
The liability cover being discussed here is to cover you for the things not covered by standard track day cover.

[QBee]

Steve H said:

QBee said:

To me that equates to about one fairly serious claim every ten years?
A biker was killed on a track day last year - I think it was Oulton Park - and I am afraid I can see someone getting accidentally punted into the Armco at speed at certain tracks. Oulton, Brands, Cadwell

This is true but assigning liability for negligence for such events in a trackday situation will drop the odds of a successful action significantly. I'd be surprised if they got anywhere near 1000 sales on this TBH.

Re-reading my post again now.....that was prophetic. I was at Cadwell this summer when an almost new Exige was hit hard in the side by a Rover suffering brake/brain fade, and punted into the barrier at the hairpin. The Exige was covered on a standard TD policy. If the driver had been injured, the liability cover, if the Rover driver had such a policy, would have covered any negligence claim, I believe.

[Steve H]

Would it have covered a claim or encouraged one? Slippery slope IMO.

Also, the difference between brain fade and brake fade is exactly why such claims are so mercifully hard to prove.

[QBee]

Driver said brake failure. Everyone else who was there, or saw the videos, said brain fade (that's the polite version).

[Steve H]

Yep, I saw that video, not his finest hour .

[pantera chris]

Watching this with interest