Javelin track days
Discussion
gruffalo said:
Love Cadwell, best UK circuit in my opinion:-)
I love Cadwell too, know what you mean. Fantastic corners, not too much driving in a straight line. And only 40 miles from home!I love Snettetton too, it gives slightly more chance to get past slower cars, and has lovely challenging corners of all speeds and better pit arrangements.
GreigM said:
Do they let you test the drive-by? So you are allowed on circuit to do a few laps and get up to speed (in order to properly simulate quite how hard you will be pushing during an actual track day? I don't believe you are, so you cannot reasonably test if your car will pass in advance.
The point where your analogy doesn't hold up is the indefinite nature of the test. Having your passport or not is a definite result, there is no variable or grey-area, whereas with a noise test there is massive variability in the results.
I have been at Oulton several times this year, my db readings for the first 3 were 102db, 106db, 103db. Same car, absolutely no changes to it. On the 106db day I passed simply by going up to the noise test and putting the car at a slightly different angle and making sure no-one else was queued up behind me - 105db. So IMO the "do a static test in advance" theory is a waste of time and not a guarantee of a pass, especially if your car is registering in the early 100s.
The fact is you can pass one day and fail the next, with the reason being entirely outwith the driver's control. This is what I think may be somewhat legally questionable - the variability in the test. I'm not questioning the circuit's right to prevent you going on track, but I do question that they retain all your money when they do so.
Why? They've allocated you the space, you know the score with noise, (as you've explained), why should the circuit lose out because you've turned up with a car that won't pass the noise test?The point where your analogy doesn't hold up is the indefinite nature of the test. Having your passport or not is a definite result, there is no variable or grey-area, whereas with a noise test there is massive variability in the results.
I have been at Oulton several times this year, my db readings for the first 3 were 102db, 106db, 103db. Same car, absolutely no changes to it. On the 106db day I passed simply by going up to the noise test and putting the car at a slightly different angle and making sure no-one else was queued up behind me - 105db. So IMO the "do a static test in advance" theory is a waste of time and not a guarantee of a pass, especially if your car is registering in the early 100s.
The fact is you can pass one day and fail the next, with the reason being entirely outwith the driver's control. This is what I think may be somewhat legally questionable - the variability in the test. I'm not questioning the circuit's right to prevent you going on track, but I do question that they retain all your money when they do so.
You can always opt to be well within the noise limit. It's entirely your choice to have a car that's marginal. You could have a quieter car which would keep everybody happy and which would have minimal impact on the car's performance, and turn up at every event knowing you will easily pass the noise test. It's your call.
GreigM said:
Engineer1 said:
But if they give you the ability to check prior to booking that you will pass and there is a question as to whether you will pass then you are a fool, in the same way if you booked a holiday and decided not to check your passport was still valid it would be your problem.
Do they let you test the drive-by? So you are allowed on circuit to do a few laps and get up to speed (in order to properly simulate quite how hard you will be pushing during an actual track day? I don't believe you are, so you cannot reasonably test if your car will pass in advance. The point where your analogy doesn't hold up is the indefinite nature of the test. Having your passport or not is a definite result, there is no variable or grey-area, whereas with a noise test there is massive variability in the results.
I have been at Oulton several times this year, my db readings for the first 3 were 102db, 106db, 103db. Same car, absolutely no changes to it. On the 106db day I passed simply by going up to the noise test and putting the car at a slightly different angle and making sure no-one else was queued up behind me - 105db. So IMO the "do a static test in advance" theory is a waste of time and not a guarantee of a pass, especially if your car is registering in the early 100s.
The fact is you can pass one day and fail the next, with the reason being entirely outwith the driver's control. This is what I think may be somewhat legally questionable - the variability in the test. I'm not questioning the circuit's right to prevent you going on track, but I do question that they retain all your money when they do so.
heebeegeetee said:
You can always opt to be well within the noise limit. It's entirely your choice to have a car that's marginal. You could have a quieter car which would keep everybody happy and which would have minimal impact on the car's performance, and turn up at every event knowing you will easily pass the noise test. It's your call.
Given 3db is a doubling of the power used to generate sound, then I'd call that "well" within the noise limit. My issue is with the obvious large variability in results when apparently tested in a calibrated and consistent manner.However, the point in my original post was a legal one, would the passing or failing of a variable test which you cannot submit to in advance be seen as a reasonable contract term?
GreigM said:
1. Given 3db is a doubling of the power used to generate sound, then I'd call that "well" within the noise limit. My issue is with the obvious large variability in results when apparently tested in a calibrated and consistent manner.
2. However, the point in my original post was a legal one, would the passing or failing of a variable test which you cannot submit to in advance be seen as a reasonable contract term?
1. Fair point, but obviously you can still run much quieter than that, at a figure that is nowhere near the limit. That way you know there will be no issue even allowing for ever-present variables and you can set off for your day out in a much better frame of mind.2. However, the point in my original post was a legal one, would the passing or failing of a variable test which you cannot submit to in advance be seen as a reasonable contract term?
2. I'd say that given the TDO has no control whatsoever of the condition of cars that will turn up for the day, I think yes it is reasonable provided all info is provided beforehand.
heebeegeetee said:
GreigM said:
1. Given 3db is a doubling of the power used to generate sound, then I'd call that "well" within the noise limit. My issue is with the obvious large variability in results when apparently tested in a calibrated and consistent manner.
2. However, the point in my original post was a legal one, would the passing or failing of a variable test which you cannot submit to in advance be seen as a reasonable contract term?
1. Fair point, but obviously you can still run much quieter than that, at a figure that is nowhere near the limit. That way you know there will be no issue even allowing for ever-present variables and you can set off for your day out in a much better frame of mind.2. However, the point in my original post was a legal one, would the passing or failing of a variable test which you cannot submit to in advance be seen as a reasonable contract term?
2. I'd say that given the TDO has no control whatsoever of the condition of cars that will turn up for the day, I think yes it is reasonable provided all info is provided beforehand.
HBGT. No production car is that noisy these days, I made mine so. I had a 94dB 4 litre car that I knew I wanted to take on track. Knowing that I still changed into a 5 litre, which upped it to 99 dB, and then decatted it, which took it to 101 dB. We checked the noise level before and after decatting, with an iPhone app, and the increase was 2db.
This car reads anywhere between 97 and 106 dB on MSV's professional noise kit. Even on the same kit on different days. I am at Snetterton in two weeks time and will report back.
Yes I can take issue with the noise limits and with the test equipment being so variable, but at the end of the day I knowingly made my car louder, so it's my fault I am at risk of falling foul of the noise limits. I could always have bought a Porsche Boxster instead and had no noise issues, but no friends either. Owning a TVR is amazing for all the people you meet.
My answer? Bought some track day silencers, they take 7dB off and soften the sound.
QBee said:
I could always have bought a Porsche Boxster instead and had no noise issues, but no friends either. Owning a TVR is amazing for all the people you meet.
I can tell you that if you track a Boxster, you don't half get chased, which can be fun especially when they spin off fairly regularly. 
heebeegeetee said:
QBee said:
I could always have bought a Porsche Boxster instead and had no noise issues, but no friends either. Owning a TVR is amazing for all the people you meet.
I can tell you that if you track a Boxster, you don't half get chased, which can be fun especially when they spin off fairly regularly. At the time of purchase I was actually choosing between a Boxster and a Chimeara. Didn't research it at all. Just liked the sound of the Chimaera. Total research = one 15 minute test drive. I only found out about the great and enthusiastic TVR owners after I got the car.
We're going mob-handed (me and some of the friends I have made since buying my TVR) to Snetterton for a Javelin TD on Saturday 16th November if you fancy joining us. If you do, please let me know and come and join us in the pits, as it would be good to compare your modern engineering with our 5 litres of barn door. And we will probably be lighting up Attleborough the night before.....
One of the group I do track days with has a Cayman S, great car beautifully balanced, love chasing him down, the TVR power tends to win out as the Cerbera is about even through the twisty bits but is better on the brakes which surprised me and quicker down the straights which was no surprise.
Done all of my track days through javelin and they've been nothing but brilliant, can honestly say i dont have a bad word to say about them, friendly staff, well ran days, and always happy to help.
I was told last week at oulton park by the marshall at the end of the pit lane that i couldnt use my Go Pro on circuit but the guys from javelin went and sorted it for me and i was all clear to use it.
nothing but praise for them from me.
I was told last week at oulton park by the marshall at the end of the pit lane that i couldnt use my Go Pro on circuit but the guys from javelin went and sorted it for me and i was all clear to use it.
nothing but praise for them from me.
Hello guys and gals, I am looking to do a trackday with Javelin track days. I have used book-a-track many times both with my own car and also hiring their Caterham R300s and have only had good experiences.
Javelin appear to hire a range of cars.
Does anyone have any experience on how well the Javelin cars are maintained?
Also they state that “Hire allows for an average of 20 mins per hour track time”. I know regular cooling off periods are important for both car and driver but this seems a bit excessive.
Does any one know how strictly they enforce this “20mins on - 40 mins off” rule? This might be a deal breaker because I plan on sharing the day with my Dad so 20 mins a hour split by 2 people dosnt give us much time!
Thanks
Javelin appear to hire a range of cars.
Does anyone have any experience on how well the Javelin cars are maintained?
Also they state that “Hire allows for an average of 20 mins per hour track time”. I know regular cooling off periods are important for both car and driver but this seems a bit excessive.
Does any one know how strictly they enforce this “20mins on - 40 mins off” rule? This might be a deal breaker because I plan on sharing the day with my Dad so 20 mins a hour split by 2 people dosnt give us much time!
Thanks
This location contains the 20mins per hour line.
http://www.javelintrackdays.co.uk/trackday/index.p...
http://www.javelintrackdays.co.uk/trackday/index.p...
Why not phone them and ask them? Its a family run company and they are very friendly. You are the paying customer, so better to get it right from the start don't you think?
Their general track day organisation is excellent IMHO, and they were very quick to email everyone when Cadwell was snowed off a couple of weeks ago. It wasn't snowy even 20 miles from the track, so they saved everyone a whole load of wasted time and expense by their prompt action.
Their general track day organisation is excellent IMHO, and they were very quick to email everyone when Cadwell was snowed off a couple of weeks ago. It wasn't snowy even 20 miles from the track, so they saved everyone a whole load of wasted time and expense by their prompt action.
Just had a nose through this thread, seeing "Javelin" next to a thumbs-down icon seemed terribly wrong so I was interested to see what had gone on!
If you exceed the driveby limit by a whole decibel, the local authority is notified and the circuit must be seen to take action. As the TDO are responsible for running the day, they have to stop the infringement, and the only options are that you modify your car to make it compliant or you stop running.
Now, I'm quite fortunate in that my car is well below limits, but I'm constantly baffled (fnarr) by those who bring loud cars knowing damn well they're pushing their luck. We're all painfully aware of how much pressure circuits are under to minimise nuisance to the surrounding population, and how powerful local authorities can be if limits are broken. Trying to skirt the rules in a car that's plainly louder than should be allowed, trying to persuade the TDO to break the law for you or worse, giving them abuse when they won't.. All of these are detrimental to motorsport as a whole. Just don't.
geeks said:
Went to an MSV day at Bedford a couple of months ago. They were very clear that if you were to trip it by 1DB then they would black flag you with no arguing end of. They did add an adenum onto this that if you could get your exhaust sorted you could get renoise tested and be allowed back on...
Absolutely this. I was at a Javelin day at Bedford recently and this is exactly what they tell you in the briefing. Colin was quite clear in how strict the noise regulations are, and suggested that we all take it easy at the start and gradually build up to using full revs down the straights - that way, if you're getting close to the drive-by limits, they can pull you in and let you know. He made it very clear that second chances were out of their hands: break the limit, change your cans or go home.If you exceed the driveby limit by a whole decibel, the local authority is notified and the circuit must be seen to take action. As the TDO are responsible for running the day, they have to stop the infringement, and the only options are that you modify your car to make it compliant or you stop running.
Now, I'm quite fortunate in that my car is well below limits, but I'm constantly baffled (fnarr) by those who bring loud cars knowing damn well they're pushing their luck. We're all painfully aware of how much pressure circuits are under to minimise nuisance to the surrounding population, and how powerful local authorities can be if limits are broken. Trying to skirt the rules in a car that's plainly louder than should be allowed, trying to persuade the TDO to break the law for you or worse, giving them abuse when they won't.. All of these are detrimental to motorsport as a whole. Just don't.
Just on the topic of Javelin and attitude to noise, I was in a group at a wet Brands last December. A 458 and 996C4S failed the static test (performed by an MSV employee).
Colin and the MSV tester were both sympathetic and after a few repeated re-tests with warmer engines, different atmospheric conditions etc, both passed and managed track time.
I can imagine it can get a bit tiresome dealing with repeated failed noise test issues, but we found Colin to be supportive.
To add some balance I have also experienced Colin being somewhat officious at a Bedford track day regarding a matter unrelated to noise, but we all have our off days!
Colin and the MSV tester were both sympathetic and after a few repeated re-tests with warmer engines, different atmospheric conditions etc, both passed and managed track time.
I can imagine it can get a bit tiresome dealing with repeated failed noise test issues, but we found Colin to be supportive.
To add some balance I have also experienced Colin being somewhat officious at a Bedford track day regarding a matter unrelated to noise, but we all have our off days!
Bedford is the issue there. It's not even the owners, MSV's fault.
The circuit is an old WW2 bomber airfield somewhat beyond the back of beyond, yet the local council have Jonathan Palmer's privates permanently clamped in a vice, and they are just waiting for any excuse to turn the handle tighter.
The static noise limit is 4dB quieter than most other tracks at 101, and the enforced drive by limit is 87.5. I have found that if I can get my TVR through the static limit at 0730 on a damp morning, then I don't struggle with the drive by.
The circuit is an old WW2 bomber airfield somewhat beyond the back of beyond, yet the local council have Jonathan Palmer's privates permanently clamped in a vice, and they are just waiting for any excuse to turn the handle tighter.
The static noise limit is 4dB quieter than most other tracks at 101, and the enforced drive by limit is 87.5. I have found that if I can get my TVR through the static limit at 0730 on a damp morning, then I don't struggle with the drive by.
Another vote for Javelin here, i've been to 2 of their days and one Opentrack, all at Bedford and the days have always been run brilliantly and without severe delay, even when one poor bloke put his M3 on its roof by the pits....
Also very impressed with Opentrack last week, seemed like a very well run but nicely chilled day, driving standards were high etc.
The only cars i saw having an issue with noise were an M3 (e92) last week that was mega loud (sounded glorious) and at the previous day a Nova with a straight cut box and throttle bodies that was crazily loud...
Also very impressed with Opentrack last week, seemed like a very well run but nicely chilled day, driving standards were high etc.
The only cars i saw having an issue with noise were an M3 (e92) last week that was mega loud (sounded glorious) and at the previous day a Nova with a straight cut box and throttle bodies that was crazily loud...
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