Worst Track Day, Organisers & Most Expensive.....
Discussion
This thread seems to have turned into a bun fight about the overtaking rules and what the typical customer is. I personally had no issues with it. The overtaking was perhaps more frantic (more scope for risk) and maybe a slow car would struggle with it, but it did allow easier progress for faster cars. The race cars can be annoying to watch out for, but were interesting enough to watch so it was all a bit of a wash for me.
Then man in question may do a great job of reprimanding those that need it, but I personally didn't see any of the organisation/running of the trackday to comment. My gripe was the briefing was rude, uninformative and unnecessary in places. I didn't drive within my limits because of the blunt briefing, I drive like that because I don't want to crash. Our group had spent a long time watching instructed lap videos, discussed the lines and made note of corner speeds. We enjoy learning/experimenting with the lines and as such we had made the decision not to book instruction. If the briefing had been informative I would have just taken the blunt comments on the chin. Also worth noting that the regular RMA (and I'm going to assume fast) posters in this thread didn't have the majority of the briefing directed towards them, so I'm not surprised you were happy enough with it all(that's not a dig btw). You already knew what was going on so probably didn't feel like you came away in the dark and just plain angry (rather than intimidated into driving any safer).
A crash at Spa may be 'a big one', but ultimately it's a pretty safe track with some incredibly forgiving run off areas. The fact that there were still incidents and coming together of cars suggests that the operators firm approach is no more effective than the next.
To reiterate I had no issue with the RMA format on track, I just think the briefing needs to be reviewed.
Then man in question may do a great job of reprimanding those that need it, but I personally didn't see any of the organisation/running of the trackday to comment. My gripe was the briefing was rude, uninformative and unnecessary in places. I didn't drive within my limits because of the blunt briefing, I drive like that because I don't want to crash. Our group had spent a long time watching instructed lap videos, discussed the lines and made note of corner speeds. We enjoy learning/experimenting with the lines and as such we had made the decision not to book instruction. If the briefing had been informative I would have just taken the blunt comments on the chin. Also worth noting that the regular RMA (and I'm going to assume fast) posters in this thread didn't have the majority of the briefing directed towards them, so I'm not surprised you were happy enough with it all(that's not a dig btw). You already knew what was going on so probably didn't feel like you came away in the dark and just plain angry (rather than intimidated into driving any safer).
A crash at Spa may be 'a big one', but ultimately it's a pretty safe track with some incredibly forgiving run off areas. The fact that there were still incidents and coming together of cars suggests that the operators firm approach is no more effective than the next.
To reiterate I had no issue with the RMA format on track, I just think the briefing needs to be reviewed.
some interesting viewpoints to read and I guess it sounds like a bit of a culture shock to the way the guy does the briefing. Its interesting as I have found different people do it different ways and always interesting to see how it is done.
One interesting point i picked up on which appears to be a common theme is around people that turn up with proper race support. Personally I find I have the least hassle with them on track (being on a slow car straight line wise) as they know how to safely overtake and 'usually' are a bit more skilled. But I guess everyone has a totally different point of view based on their own experience.
As for braking points being discussed I agree with whoever said it that I watched lots of laps before going to 2 new tracks (Oulton Park/Donnington) and at the briefing I wouldnt expect them to talk to the track corner by corner. But they did specifically mention one corner at Oulton and for those that didnt know it was useful.
Overtaking on both sides hmm I guess as long as its clearly spelled out when you book not a problem.
One interesting point i picked up on which appears to be a common theme is around people that turn up with proper race support. Personally I find I have the least hassle with them on track (being on a slow car straight line wise) as they know how to safely overtake and 'usually' are a bit more skilled. But I guess everyone has a totally different point of view based on their own experience.
As for braking points being discussed I agree with whoever said it that I watched lots of laps before going to 2 new tracks (Oulton Park/Donnington) and at the briefing I wouldnt expect them to talk to the track corner by corner. But they did specifically mention one corner at Oulton and for those that didnt know it was useful.
Overtaking on both sides hmm I guess as long as its clearly spelled out when you book not a problem.
Being a regular RMA customer and in the quicker road legal car category, I feel Graham actually address us and the race cars with is "I don't give a feck who you are or think you are, if you don't follow my rules you are out quicker than you have ever experienced before". I have seen Graham going off on the deep end on someone who got a little too excited and dug in a little too aggressive for a fast track day, trust me you will not come around anyone more upset and rude, his briefings are little kids stuff compared. If new to the track or low on general experience or skills, stick that yellow novice sticker on your car and we drive big circles round you.
Again, the few that struggle with RMA pace and overtake code will probably use another TDO next time and everybody are happy. Running off complaining days later and even when not even participating seems weird. Everyone will find Graham sensible and approachable during his days if you have a valid point or concern. Try it rather than moan around as trolls on the web afterwards.
Again, the few that struggle with RMA pace and overtake code will probably use another TDO next time and everybody are happy. Running off complaining days later and even when not even participating seems weird. Everyone will find Graham sensible and approachable during his days if you have a valid point or concern. Try it rather than moan around as trolls on the web afterwards.
Have been on a few of their days and the bluster/hard man act at the briefings is quite ridiculous but ultimately in itself not something that would make me refuse to go to one of their days if the schedule was right. Overtaking on both sides happens a fair bit with continental trackdays in my experience and as long as everyone is sensible it is fine and the race teams usually are the ones you have to worry least about and one sees poor driving standards in a lot of other trackdays as well.
The TDO's behaviour to the poster a few pages back who crashed his gtr however is a rather more serious point imo.
The TDO's behaviour to the poster a few pages back who crashed his gtr however is a rather more serious point imo.
Edited by isaldiri on Saturday 27th September 14:18
I've participated in numerous trackdays in Europe (not UK), never had any briefings, open pit lane, overtaking on both sides, and never had any problem with it - and in about 15 years I can only recall one incident where a one car hit another (that had spun in front). I guess the difference is this is a club event, rather than an open to anyone day, so everyone's probably a bit more respectful of other drivers and there is less of the red mist / driving god effect.
911Viking, you truly have missed the point of this thread.
With regards to pace, overtaking, quickness, experience etc.... Only when drivers are in vehicles of equal nature can you really start willy waving..... ;-)
I was the O.P yet I'll guarantee Ive done more laps on more circuits in the UK, Europe & USA in more different cars, in more different conditions, in both race, track, corporate & demo...... Than yourself..... But Im sure you flew past me Mon/Tues in my lowly white Mitsubishi Evo 6.....
Get my point ?
With regards to pace, overtaking, quickness, experience etc.... Only when drivers are in vehicles of equal nature can you really start willy waving..... ;-)
I was the O.P yet I'll guarantee Ive done more laps on more circuits in the UK, Europe & USA in more different cars, in more different conditions, in both race, track, corporate & demo...... Than yourself..... But Im sure you flew past me Mon/Tues in my lowly white Mitsubishi Evo 6.....
Get my point ?
Northern Chap said:
911Viking, you truly have missed the point of this thread.
With regards to pace, overtaking, quickness, experience etc.... Only when drivers are in vehicles of equal nature can you really start willy waving..... ;-)
I was the O.P yet I'll guarantee Ive done more laps on more circuits in the UK, Europe & USA in more different cars, in more different conditions, in both race, track, corporate & demo...... Than yourself..... But Im sure you flew past me Mon/Tues in my lowly white Mitsubishi Evo 6.....
Get my point ?
No N Chap not really, but it doesn't really matter, sensing from your post (the one I didn't get) that we won't meet again at a track day run by RMA. Sorry, I didn't notice your Mitsubishi, perhaps I overtook you or you me, but regardless who overtook who, it didn't leave any impression on me. With regards to pace, overtaking, quickness, experience etc.... Only when drivers are in vehicles of equal nature can you really start willy waving..... ;-)
I was the O.P yet I'll guarantee Ive done more laps on more circuits in the UK, Europe & USA in more different cars, in more different conditions, in both race, track, corporate & demo...... Than yourself..... But Im sure you flew past me Mon/Tues in my lowly white Mitsubishi Evo 6.....
Get my point ?
Certainly could be you have been to more tracks and in more different cars than I have, isn't that great for you if thats the case and important to you. I commented to RMA being great days which clearly is subjective and the fact that Graham talk less to flags and corners than others and swear more than anyone doesn't bother most of his customers... That said though, the tone and choice of words during briefing is beyond what I would subject my wife to. And it would be hard to argue Graham can not sophisticate his briefing a tad.
Now have a great weekend and good luck with deciding for another TDO. If we meet up at another event, lets have a drink and exchange views. I am a little of driving god and know nearly everything better, so I will happily teach you :-)
Cheers,
H
Uprated front brakes, slightly better suspension & a few more horses are the modifications....
No roll cage, interior trim still intact inc rear seats, etc... Cheap Nankang road/track tyres, underside still std ie; bushes, anti roll bars etc.... I coudnt have done any better than the 2:55 to be fair. 130mph through Eau Rouge & then the car maxed out at 140-145 at the end of Kemmel.... Firmer suspension, a better geo set up would have helped but Id only taken the car in PX the Friday of last week so couldnt do a great deal other than put fuel in & check oils etc...
Oulton this Tuesday & Cadwell Weds with a few additions/changes.
No roll cage, interior trim still intact inc rear seats, etc... Cheap Nankang road/track tyres, underside still std ie; bushes, anti roll bars etc.... I coudnt have done any better than the 2:55 to be fair. 130mph through Eau Rouge & then the car maxed out at 140-145 at the end of Kemmel.... Firmer suspension, a better geo set up would have helped but Id only taken the car in PX the Friday of last week so couldnt do a great deal other than put fuel in & check oils etc...
Oulton this Tuesday & Cadwell Weds with a few additions/changes.
Northern Chap said:
Uprated front brakes, slightly better suspension & a few more horses are the modifications....
No roll cage, interior trim still intact inc rear seats, etc... Cheap Nankang road/track tyres, underside still std ie; bushes, anti roll bars etc.... I coudnt have done any better than the 2:55 to be fair. 130mph through Eau Rouge & then the car maxed out at 140-145 at the end of Kemmel.... Firmer suspension, a better geo set up would have helped but Id only taken the car in PX the Friday of last week so couldnt do a great deal other than put fuel in & check oils etc...
Oulton this Tuesday & Cadwell Weds with a few additions/changes.
excuse me, are you suggesting your minimum speed through ER on your quick lap was 130mph?No roll cage, interior trim still intact inc rear seats, etc... Cheap Nankang road/track tyres, underside still std ie; bushes, anti roll bars etc.... I coudnt have done any better than the 2:55 to be fair. 130mph through Eau Rouge & then the car maxed out at 140-145 at the end of Kemmel.... Firmer suspension, a better geo set up would have helped but Id only taken the car in PX the Friday of last week so couldnt do a great deal other than put fuel in & check oils etc...
Oulton this Tuesday & Cadwell Weds with a few additions/changes.
Northern Chap said:
Uprated front brakes, slightly better suspension & a few more horses are the modifications....
No roll cage, interior trim still intact inc rear seats, etc... Cheap Nankang road/track tyres, underside still std ie; bushes, anti roll bars etc.... I coudnt have done any better than the 2:55 to be fair. 130mph through Eau Rouge & then the car maxed out at 140-145 at the end of Kemmel.... Firmer suspension, a better geo set up would have helped but Id only taken the car in PX the Friday of last week so couldnt do a great deal other than put fuel in & check oils etc...
Oulton this Tuesday & Cadwell Weds with a few additions/changes.
Only 2:55 and 130mph through er, rest of lap you must have been in traffic or coasting.No roll cage, interior trim still intact inc rear seats, etc... Cheap Nankang road/track tyres, underside still std ie; bushes, anti roll bars etc.... I coudnt have done any better than the 2:55 to be fair. 130mph through Eau Rouge & then the car maxed out at 140-145 at the end of Kemmel.... Firmer suspension, a better geo set up would have helped but Id only taken the car in PX the Friday of last week so couldnt do a great deal other than put fuel in & check oils etc...
Oulton this Tuesday & Cadwell Weds with a few additions/changes.
Then 2.55 is pretty impressive then, Spa lap times really does punish cars with medium power/weight ratio, Kemmel and Blanchimont are sooo long. 130 into the compression is really good, don't think track modded GT3's get more. Driven quite a few mates GT3's on Spa and my own Mk1 long time ago, always get 128 - 130 into the compression in 6GT3's. I can get 126 in my 964 and thats flat out approach up from La Source. End Kemmel I get similar speed, 141 - 143. The 964 I use for track play is upgraded obviously, just a few secs off a track modded 6GT3 on Spa driven by a quick and handy chap or lady for that matter. Think we will get a decent tussle next time.
Btw heard from a few chaps the Nankang's are great value for money, I go through endless 888's and Cups every season and have been thinking about giving them a go... Whats your experience vs the pricier stuff?
Relevant to TDO's, I dropped by Spa again Thur this week and did a couple of afternoon hours with Curbstone. These guys are serious high end, 900 Euros for 1 day, does though include lunch and drinks during the day. Very high end cars, no briefing, can overtake both sides, but damn they are slow. First time my little 964 toy have pushed GT2's, 991 GT3's, Speciale, 650S etc to move over. None of them broke 3 mins, was shocking. Nice and friendly chaps but it was surreal, didn't know whether to laugh or cry. Had a mate with me who thought I was super good running circles round these kind of cars in a 964.... Felt no need to adjust his views to my skills.
Enjoy next week, some of us have to work... But following week its Spa again, this time with RSR.
Btw heard from a few chaps the Nankang's are great value for money, I go through endless 888's and Cups every season and have been thinking about giving them a go... Whats your experience vs the pricier stuff?
Relevant to TDO's, I dropped by Spa again Thur this week and did a couple of afternoon hours with Curbstone. These guys are serious high end, 900 Euros for 1 day, does though include lunch and drinks during the day. Very high end cars, no briefing, can overtake both sides, but damn they are slow. First time my little 964 toy have pushed GT2's, 991 GT3's, Speciale, 650S etc to move over. None of them broke 3 mins, was shocking. Nice and friendly chaps but it was surreal, didn't know whether to laugh or cry. Had a mate with me who thought I was super good running circles round these kind of cars in a 964.... Felt no need to adjust his views to my skills.
Enjoy next week, some of us have to work... But following week its Spa again, this time with RSR.
O'Neill said:
Northern Chap said:
Uprated front brakes, slightly better suspension & a few more horses are the modifications....
No roll cage, interior trim still intact inc rear seats, etc... Cheap Nankang road/track tyres, underside still std ie; bushes, anti roll bars etc.... I coudnt have done any better than the 2:55 to be fair. 130mph through Eau Rouge & then the car maxed out at 140-145 at the end of Kemmel.... Firmer suspension, a better geo set up would have helped but Id only taken the car in PX the Friday of last week so couldnt do a great deal other than put fuel in & check oils etc...
Oulton this Tuesday & Cadwell Weds with a few additions/changes.
Only 2:55 and 130mph through er, rest of lap you must have been in traffic or coasting.No roll cage, interior trim still intact inc rear seats, etc... Cheap Nankang road/track tyres, underside still std ie; bushes, anti roll bars etc.... I coudnt have done any better than the 2:55 to be fair. 130mph through Eau Rouge & then the car maxed out at 140-145 at the end of Kemmel.... Firmer suspension, a better geo set up would have helped but Id only taken the car in PX the Friday of last week so couldnt do a great deal other than put fuel in & check oils etc...
Oulton this Tuesday & Cadwell Weds with a few additions/changes.
2 weeks prior in a fairly std Evo 6 Extreme but uprated brakes, suspension I was taking ER at 120/125.... Ive always feathered the throttle going down to the compression whilst increasing the speed, no braking, no gearchange to the point of accelerating as the car runs over the left then straight line right and at this speed a huge amount of the left run off is taken....
This part of the circuit and coming onto the start/finish straight was the strength of the car where most things I came across (road car wise) would be slower....
The pure acceleration of the car is very aggresive as a very nice orange GT3 RS found out from the start of the start/finish straight..... Oh to have had better brakes ;-)
This part of the circuit and coming onto the start/finish straight was the strength of the car where most things I came across (road car wise) would be slower....
The pure acceleration of the car is very aggresive as a very nice orange GT3 RS found out from the start of the start/finish straight..... Oh to have had better brakes ;-)
Northern Chap said:
2 weeks prior in a fairly std Evo 6 Extreme but uprated brakes, suspension I was taking ER at 120/125.... Ive always feathered the throttle going down to the compression whilst increasing the speed, no braking, no gearchange to the point of accelerating as the car runs over the left then straight line right and at this speed a huge amount of the left run off is taken....
This part of the circuit and coming onto the start/finish straight was the strength of the car where most things I came across (road car wise) would be slower....
The pure acceleration of the car is very aggresive as a very nice orange GT3 RS found out from the start of the start/finish straight..... Oh to have had better brakes ;-)
I fooking hate forums for the fact you get into petty arguments over nothing. I've done a 2:52 lap going through er at ~95 mph, end of kemmel 140. Friend a bit faster, 100 through er, 2:49 in equal car, e46 csl, can post both traces. Being able to do 130 through er grip available through the rest of the lap should have equated to ~ 2:35.This part of the circuit and coming onto the start/finish straight was the strength of the car where most things I came across (road car wise) would be slower....
The pure acceleration of the car is very aggresive as a very nice orange GT3 RS found out from the start of the start/finish straight..... Oh to have had better brakes ;-)
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