The Ring and things newbies should know
Discussion
Hi, not sure if anything like this has been done before?
As some who uses this fantastic facility on a very regular basis, I thought that just mabe it would prove helpful for the first timers or 'not very many timers' if the more experienced among us could pass on tips/advice/warnings and so on.
My line of thought came about after a fairly crap Sunday of closures (something that is becoming much too regular) because of the crashes etc.
One point that many do not know, or simply ignore, is the fact that this is NOT a race track, it is a Public Toll Road that is governed by German Traffic Laws.
So, anything that comes to mind that could help the new Ringers?
Perhaps things such as It is illegal to overtake on the right (not very often a Brit plated car) but seems to be happening more and more.As instructors are encouraged/expected to notify the Ticket Office of such things, dont think that as most Marshals post are unmaned, you might not have been seen!
Not being a killjoy-simply concerned that IF this years carnage is to continue, could the Rhineland Pfaltz government to forced to stop TF days?
As some who uses this fantastic facility on a very regular basis, I thought that just mabe it would prove helpful for the first timers or 'not very many timers' if the more experienced among us could pass on tips/advice/warnings and so on.
My line of thought came about after a fairly crap Sunday of closures (something that is becoming much too regular) because of the crashes etc.
One point that many do not know, or simply ignore, is the fact that this is NOT a race track, it is a Public Toll Road that is governed by German Traffic Laws.
So, anything that comes to mind that could help the new Ringers?
Perhaps things such as It is illegal to overtake on the right (not very often a Brit plated car) but seems to be happening more and more.As instructors are encouraged/expected to notify the Ticket Office of such things, dont think that as most Marshals post are unmaned, you might not have been seen!
Not being a killjoy-simply concerned that IF this years carnage is to continue, could the Rhineland Pfaltz government to forced to stop TF days?
I wouldnt count on it never closing ; ).
And lets not forget the injuries that have arrisen from some of those crahes.Bikers have not had a good year either.
The local police are getting a little tired with the incident rate-these things do have a habit of escalating when looked at as a whole.
And lets not forget the injuries that have arrisen from some of those crahes.Bikers have not had a good year either.
The local police are getting a little tired with the incident rate-these things do have a habit of escalating when looked at as a whole.
Edited by terenceb on Tuesday 28th October 10:17
terenceb said:
One point that many do not know, or simply ignore, is the fact that this is NOT a race track, it is a Public Toll Road that is governed by German Traffic Laws.
It would be a lot better if it WAS a race track and not a public toll road governed by German Traffic Laws IMHO.The thing that will kill TF won't necessarily be politicians - it will probably be insurance companies. Once it is privately (rather than state) owned, even the German insurers may be able to start looking at excluding it much like the UK ones do. The track car hire companies are already having a tougher time of things which could escalate. This is the real fear that could choke public access of, though that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for the track day industry there.
As for the accident rate - I've been going since 2007 and I am not convinced that it has really got that much worse overall (even though there is a bit of year on year variation).
The most important thing that newbies should know is that you should never chase times. You shouldn't even be timing in the first place. You might want to start reviewing your video or doing a bit of data logging once you have a couple of hundred laps, but if you want to chase the clock - start with the GLP and when you know where you are going: buy a drive in the RCN. If you are not in a race, you should not be racing (against other cars or the clock).
As for the accident rate - I've been going since 2007 and I am not convinced that it has really got that much worse overall (even though there is a bit of year on year variation).
The most important thing that newbies should know is that you should never chase times. You shouldn't even be timing in the first place. You might want to start reviewing your video or doing a bit of data logging once you have a couple of hundred laps, but if you want to chase the clock - start with the GLP and when you know where you are going: buy a drive in the RCN. If you are not in a race, you should not be racing (against other cars or the clock).
Ownership hasn't transferred to Capricorn, it always was due to be Jan 2015.
KPMG are back to talking with other bidders originally involved due to 'issues' with Capricorn's financial backing, the nature of these issues is subject to speculation as GriegM and DiscoColin already point out.
If I'd have known you didn't actually have to have the money, I'd have bought the place myself.
KPMG are back to talking with other bidders originally involved due to 'issues' with Capricorn's financial backing, the nature of these issues is subject to speculation as GriegM and DiscoColin already point out.
If I'd have known you didn't actually have to have the money, I'd have bought the place myself.
Basically no, the reason being tha the art collection that was put up as collateral had alreay been used for a rather expensive house elsewhere.
Situation now is that Capricorn now has until 31st July to raise the money with some answers ready by the end of March, at present it is looking fairly grim to say the least.With the State threatening to close it if the funds are not available by March, or at least, proof of, with the money on there table by July.
Heard some 'talk'of the Industry Pool buying it with ADAC doing the
managing, but as said, that was 'talk'.
Situation now is that Capricorn now has until 31st July to raise the money with some answers ready by the end of March, at present it is looking fairly grim to say the least.With the State threatening to close it if the funds are not available by March, or at least, proof of, with the money on there table by July.
Heard some 'talk'of the Industry Pool buying it with ADAC doing the
managing, but as said, that was 'talk'.
I'd say the most important thing is to be careful. Don't be scared, just be careful! I would love to know how many crashes are from people on their first few laps.. probably a fairly large majority. Most people I know who have crashed had done less then 10 laps, and a fair few of them had played Gran Turismo first. I think that's probably the most dangerous combination, as it makes people assume they know the track. Playing GT is like driving round looking at a sat-nav: it teaches you the rough layout, but does very little to prepare you for the bumps, dips, hills, crests etc etc.
Oh yes.. and respect the flags!
If Marshalls are on the track, they may well smash your window with their flags if you don't slow down enough. Slightly arsey behaviour, but you have to acknowledge they put their lives at risk for that place to stay open.. so make sure you slow right down.
Oh yes.. and respect the flags!
If Marshalls are on the track, they may well smash your window with their flags if you don't slow down enough. Slightly arsey behaviour, but you have to acknowledge they put their lives at risk for that place to stay open.. so make sure you slow right down.
Edited by CamMoreRon on Wednesday 29th October 10:48
Good points there-thanks.
One thing we tend to ask is if customers have played any video games.Most answer yes, they get told to forget what they have seen because of the points mentioned .Crashes DO seem to be increasing though, and yes usually involve new comers-one of the reasons for this topic.
One thing we tend to ask is if customers have played any video games.Most answer yes, they get told to forget what they have seen because of the points mentioned .Crashes DO seem to be increasing though, and yes usually involve new comers-one of the reasons for this topic.
CamMoreRon said:
Most people I know who have crashed had done less then 10 laps, and a fair few of them had played Gran Turismo first. I think that's probably the most dangerous combination, as it makes people assume they know the track. Playing GT is like driving round looking at a sat-nav: it teaches you the rough layout, but does very little to prepare you for the bumps, dips, hills, crests etc etc.
Playing Gran Turismo absolutely does help, especially when your own car is in the game 
As long as you have all the aids off and fit the worst tyres, otherwise it's completely unrealistic.I agree that the game does not prepare you for the hills and G-forces but I felt I was completely up to speed by the third or fourth lap after going there for the first time this year. The real track actually felt a lot wider than in GT.
Shaoxter said:
Playing Gran Turismo absolutely does help, especially when your own car is in the game As long as you have all the aids off and fit the worst tyres, otherwise it's completely unrealistic.
I agree that the game does not prepare you for the hills and G-forces but I felt I was completely up to speed by the third or fourth lap after going there for the first time this year. The real track actually felt a lot wider than in GT.
I'd been there about 5 times before playing it on GT5, and I do think it helped me to learn the layout a little better. I just think it's a little dodgy doing things the other way round as it teaches you "this bit is flat" before you've even driven round it. You might not remember all those times you got it wrong in GT either! As long as you have all the aids off and fit the worst tyres, otherwise it's completely unrealistic.I agree that the game does not prepare you for the hills and G-forces but I felt I was completely up to speed by the third or fourth lap after going there for the first time this year. The real track actually felt a lot wider than in GT.
Latest news is that Capricorn has come up with some money (for now?) But good news? Who knows!
Wheel drive cars fitted with "Fed Ex's"???? Lol
BUT, good point that I dont think anyone else has mentioned yet.Nothing more dangerous than a slow car blocking or switching lanes without checking the mirrors before moving across ANY road.
Wheel drive cars fitted with "Fed Ex's"???? Lol
BUT, good point that I dont think anyone else has mentioned yet.Nothing more dangerous than a slow car blocking or switching lanes without checking the mirrors before moving across ANY road.
New arrivals should have to attend a briefing that explains what happens if you bend a barrier or worse cause a track closure. Also show some photos of what happens when your talent runs out, why you should wear a helmet and how long it takes to get back to the uk if you smash your car up!
TF days are not like a uk track day and this is a circuit that deserves some respect from new drivers.
TF days are not like a uk track day and this is a circuit that deserves some respect from new drivers.
rallycross said:
New arrivals should have to attend a briefing that explains what happens if you bend a barrier or worse cause a track closure. Also show some photos of what happens when your talent runs out, why you should wear a helmet and how long it takes to get back to the uk if you smash your car up!
TF days are not like a uk track day and this is a circuit that deserves some respect from new drivers.
Exactly what happens when renting from RSR and R4R, videos of what can happen and how quickly it will happen when tryinh too hard too soon.TF days are not like a uk track day and this is a circuit that deserves some respect from new drivers.
Alternative would be to READ the rules and regulations on the board outside the ticket office !
"Oh, I thought it was all in German "isn't good enough.Take the time to read it, it takes all of five minutes, you never know, it might just save you some cash.
Nearly forgot-Capricorn have allegedly secured an investor-being Russian that hasn't gone down very well with local people.
Edited by terenceb on Sunday 2nd November 06:14
Read the regulations. Note that it's a race track - subject to STVO rules - third party insurance is mandatory.
http://www.nuerburgring.de/fileadmin/Touristenfahr...
Read the safety notes.
http://www.nuerburgring.de/fileadmin/Touristenfahr...
Don't go anywhere near TF in your own car. If you lose fluids and a biker crashes on your mess then you may be liable to indemnify €1.2 million in damages. There are cameras everywhere so don't think you'll get away with it by not stopping.
Rent a car for TF. Alternatively, do a trackday - but even that doesn't eliminate the risk of a massive PI claim.
http://www.nuerburgring.de/fileadmin/Touristenfahr...
Read the safety notes.
http://www.nuerburgring.de/fileadmin/Touristenfahr...
Don't go anywhere near TF in your own car. If you lose fluids and a biker crashes on your mess then you may be liable to indemnify €1.2 million in damages. There are cameras everywhere so don't think you'll get away with it by not stopping.
Rent a car for TF. Alternatively, do a trackday - but even that doesn't eliminate the risk of a massive PI claim.
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