Discussion
Hopefully someone can give me some insight here.
Our clio has Spax coilovers (very limited options because of Renault's wonderful Cup suspension) with springs which were ok until we got used to the car and got quicker.
The springs are far too soft, at least on the front, the car squats down and I'm pretty sure it bottoms out on the springs and skips across the surface.
There is another version of the coilovers available but they're £1018, come with shorter springs with higher rates.
Does anyone have any way of determining spring rates? I really don't want to go too stiff and ruin it completely but at the same time, I don't want to not go stiff enough and be £100 down for the springs which are useless!
Spax have been no help in this by the way, they will not tell me what the spring rates are, even though I paid £800 for the coilovers! Apparently it's sensitive information :-/
Our clio has Spax coilovers (very limited options because of Renault's wonderful Cup suspension) with springs which were ok until we got used to the car and got quicker.
The springs are far too soft, at least on the front, the car squats down and I'm pretty sure it bottoms out on the springs and skips across the surface.
There is another version of the coilovers available but they're £1018, come with shorter springs with higher rates.
Does anyone have any way of determining spring rates? I really don't want to go too stiff and ruin it completely but at the same time, I don't want to not go stiff enough and be £100 down for the springs which are useless!
Spax have been no help in this by the way, they will not tell me what the spring rates are, even though I paid £800 for the coilovers! Apparently it's sensitive information :-/
I know nowt ref clios & set up, but a many garages that work on track & race set up co can test your springs to give you your current rates, Falkners come up as the guys to see ref getting springs if you know what spec you want, they have big stock on shelf or can manufacture to your spec, generally its easy for coilover springs but more tricky for non.
I'd go talk to a decent independent suspension setup shop (rather than someone trying to sell you suspension - I presume there must be such a thing). It ought to be fairly easy to determine spring rates with the coilovers off the car - load them and see how far they move! It also should be perfectly possible to go and get another spring of a different rate to put on the existing coilover; springs are just bent wire in certain (standardish) sizes. You'll need a suspension guy, possibly with a shock dyno to figure out if the shocks can live with the intended spring rates tho.
Alternatively I'd have thought getting some (used?) units off a clio racecar would see you right
Alternatively I'd have thought getting some (used?) units off a clio racecar would see you right
Faulkner Springs
http://www.dfaulknersprings.com/
They can test your springs and make a custom set for you at whatever rate and length you want.
Can't rate them highly enough.
http://www.dfaulknersprings.com/
They can test your springs and make a custom set for you at whatever rate and length you want.
Can't rate them highly enough.
Don't know if this will help - somebody say if it doesn't.
I agree about standard road springs being too soft. My TVR (about the same weight as a Clio i woud have thought) comes as standard with 325 lb fronts and 275 lb rears. I am presently on 500 fronts and 400 rears for track days. My rear dampers are set soft or the rear of the car hops on tight bends. Racing TVRs use 800 lb front springs, I am told.
I suppose it is too simple to hope that the spring rate might be stamped on the spring? To be honest, I have a set waiting to go on my car, and the springs are not marked
Have you tried the Clio Sport forum, or whatever it is called?
Springs are in the region of £25 a corner, so you might be able to experiment with the help of an expert. I don't think you can ruin it, just might take a couple of goes to get it right.
I agree about standard road springs being too soft. My TVR (about the same weight as a Clio i woud have thought) comes as standard with 325 lb fronts and 275 lb rears. I am presently on 500 fronts and 400 rears for track days. My rear dampers are set soft or the rear of the car hops on tight bends. Racing TVRs use 800 lb front springs, I am told.
I suppose it is too simple to hope that the spring rate might be stamped on the spring? To be honest, I have a set waiting to go on my car, and the springs are not marked
Have you tried the Clio Sport forum, or whatever it is called?Springs are in the region of £25 a corner, so you might be able to experiment with the help of an expert. I don't think you can ruin it, just might take a couple of goes to get it right.
Something to note on spring rates is that the rate itself is not important, what is important is the wheel rate which is calculated from the motion ratio.
As an example from my E30 M3, the stock springs are 100lb/" Fr and 300lb/" Rr, which for a car with near 50/50 weight distribution seen very stiff at the rear. The motion ratio ins 0.926:1 Front and 0.67:1 Rear.
To calculate the wheel rate we use MR*MR*Spring rate
0.926*0.926*100= 85.74
0.67*0.67*300= 134.67
This is worth remembering when speccing new springs so you can maintain a similat Fr/Rr ratio.
As an example from my E30 M3, the stock springs are 100lb/" Fr and 300lb/" Rr, which for a car with near 50/50 weight distribution seen very stiff at the rear. The motion ratio ins 0.926:1 Front and 0.67:1 Rear.
To calculate the wheel rate we use MR*MR*Spring rate
0.926*0.926*100= 85.74
0.67*0.67*300= 134.67
This is worth remembering when speccing new springs so you can maintain a similat Fr/Rr ratio.
BritishRacinGrin said:
And remember, if you go up on spring rates you're going to need dampers which can control them.
OP sorry for slight thread derail, but I was wondering the above. If you just change the springs (in general, not specific to one particular car make/model), will they "work" with the OE/existing dampers? I assumed (maybe wrongly) that you had to re-valve the dampers or upgrade them as well if you change the springs? I imagined the springs and dampers are "tuned" to work together?stevesingo said:
Something to note on spring rates is that the rate itself is not important, what is important is the wheel rate which is calculated from the motion ratio.
As an example from my E30 M3, the stock springs are 100lb/" Fr and 300lb/" Rr, which for a car with near 50/50 weight distribution seen very stiff at the rear. The motion ratio ins 0.926:1 Front and 0.67:1 Rear.
To calculate the wheel rate we use MR*MR*Spring rate
0.926*0.926*100= 85.74
0.67*0.67*300= 134.67
This is worth remembering when speccing new springs so you can maintain a similat Fr/Rr ratio.
A very good point, though only really meaningful when changing the front/rear balance. When changing to a stiffer/softer overall setup, you simply need to find the rates of your current springs and maintain the same ratio with the new ones, so if the OP can get his existing setup measured then he doesn't need to worry about the resulting wheel rates.As an example from my E30 M3, the stock springs are 100lb/" Fr and 300lb/" Rr, which for a car with near 50/50 weight distribution seen very stiff at the rear. The motion ratio ins 0.926:1 Front and 0.67:1 Rear.
To calculate the wheel rate we use MR*MR*Spring rate
0.926*0.926*100= 85.74
0.67*0.67*300= 134.67
This is worth remembering when speccing new springs so you can maintain a similat Fr/Rr ratio.
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