Help please-can I modify

[Robertmh]

Hello,

I am new to this forum, but would really like some advice about a track day car. I have searched and searched, but have not been able to find an answer to what I thought would be a simple question.

I have an Alfa 147 that is "spare". It is still fully road worthy and mot'd. So, I thought why not strip it out, put in a roll cage, do some other stuff (I am a mechanical engineer, so I do know what I am doing) and make it a dedicated track day car. I have a trailer to transport it on, so not being road legal is not an issue getting to events. However, that is where I get confused. Does my car have to have an mot to do track days? I cannot find a simple answer to this question! Once I strip out airbags etc, the car will no longer pass mot ( I believe), but is that an issue? There must be lots of people on here that have done exactly that and must know the answer. I would really appreciate some nice clear advice.

Thanks
Robert

[iguana]

1- No MOT needed for TD's

2- A proper caged etc competition car/track car doesn't need airbags etc for an MOT, a chav'ed heap with just stuff ripped out may do.

[Mound Dawg]

Why bother stripping out 20kg of interior then adding 40 kg of of roll cage? You won't need a roll cage unless you end up on the roof.

In 25 years of doing trackdays I've seen only one car upside down. Plenty of them out on normal roads though!

[BritishRacinGrin]

iguana said:

2- A proper caged etc competition car/track car doesn't need airbags etc for an MOT, a chav'ed heap with just stuff ripped out may do.

I don't think MOT testers are picking and choosing which regulations are to be applied based on whether they think the car is 'chavvy' or not.

Technically, any car which originally had airbags but show the airbag warning light when the ignition is switched on and that light must go out once the engine is running.

However the car does not need an MOT to take part in a trackday, Trackday operators tend to specify in the sign-in literature that the car must be 'maintained to a roadworthy standard' or similar, so that people don't turn up with unsafe old rusty heaps with knackred suspension and brakes.

Mound Dawg said:

Why bother stripping out 20kg of interior then adding 40 kg of of roll cage? You won't need a roll cage unless you end up on the roof.

In 25 years of doing trackdays I've seen only one car upside down. Plenty of them out on normal roads though!

I would expect that you could remove around at least 60kg from most cars without spending any money, and I would also expect a cage to weigh less than 20kg.

[andyiley]

As above, no MOT needed, but with respect to airbags in particular, they don't need to be there, the warning light needs to operate correctly.

This can be achieved very simply, just disconnect the battery first and then put a 2.2ohm resistor across the contacts on the plugs.

[Robertmh]

Hello,

Thank you all so much for the replies. Considering the popularity of track days, I am amazed how hard it has been to get a clear answer to this question, but you have cleared it up for me.

With regards to the roll cage, I have not made my mind up. I had just thought it was a good safety measure. This would be my very first venture into any kind of "motor racing" ( I know track days are not races), so just want to be safe.

Out of interest, does anyone know if there is an actual class of racing that a 1.6 Alfa could be used for if correctly prepped?

Thanks
Robert

[iguana]

BritishRacinGrin said:

iguana said:

2- A proper caged etc competition car/track car doesn't need airbags etc for an MOT, a chav'ed heap with just stuff ripped out may do.

I don't think MOT testers are picking and choosing which regulations are to be applied based on whether they think the car is 'chavvy' or not.

Ignore me on the track car bit, I'm correct for a proper competition car tho.

https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/when-is-a-mod...

Edited by iguana on Thursday 26th March 08:49

[BritishRacinGrin]

Robertmh said:

does anyone know if there is an actual class of racing that a 1.6 Alfa could be used for if correctly prepped?

Thanks
Robert

There certainly will be, however whether the Alfa can be made competetive enough to compete convincingly in that class, and at what cost, are another matter entirely. The challenge will be taking a 147 which is not a widely raced model and making it competetive with 1.6l 205s, Saxos etc which are lighter and much more widely raced and therefore have parts, engine, gearbox, suspension, brake specialists proven and established. This might cost 10k, it might cost 50k.

I'd strongly suggest that if going racing is your ultimate goal, sell the 147 as is (while it's still sellable and not stripped / caged!) and buy a car which is already competing at the front of whatever class you want into. You can then trackday and test that car to your heart's content and one day go racing.

Been there, done that!

[iguana]

Robertmh said:

Out of interest, does anyone know if there is an actual class of racing that a 1.6 Alfa could be used for if correctly prepped?

The exceptionally slow & slug like shopping vehicle cup?

You need to ask on the club Motorsport forum really, but would be a fair few series you could slot into, it might not be the most competitive choice tho.

[Mound Dawg]

BritishRacinGrin said:

I would also expect a cage to weigh less than 20kg.

You'll be disappointed then. I sell roll cages for Alfa Romeos among other things and 25 kg is about the minimum for a lightweight weld in T45 job and that's for a 1960s Alfa GTA, a much smaller car inside than the one the OP is looking at. He's likely to end up with a bolt in CDS one at more like 40kg which is where my figure came from.

Of course a cage for something like an MX 5 may get close to 20 but we're not talking about those here.

Edit, of four cages offered by Demon Tweaks for the 147 only one has a weight listed, 38kg. http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/roll-cage...

Edited by Mound Dawg on Thursday 26th March 19:19

[Jim1556]

Mound Dawg said:

Why bother stripping out 20kg of interior then adding 40 kg of of roll cage? You won't need a roll cage unless you end up on the roof.

In 25 years of doing trackdays I've seen only one car upside down. Plenty of them out on normal roads though!

With some modern seats weighing nearly 20kgs (especially those with electric motors), surely, all seats, interior trim, sound proofing, dash, airbags etc, I reckon you could easily, with lots of enthusiasm strip over 100kg from most 4/5 seater cars!?

[iguana]

Jim1556 said:

With some modern seats weighing nearly 20kgs (especially those with electric motors), surely, all seats, interior trim, sound proofing, dash, airbags etc, I reckon you could easily, with lots of enthusiasm strip over 100kg from most 4/5 seater cars!?

Can loose a lot lot lot more than that! proper race strip down, inc lighter loom, race batt, light wheels, plexi glass etc, looking at a 400kg loss before the cage goes in, i.e e36M3 road 1500kg, racer 1150 caged, so easy 1100 minus full race cage & thats not really a modern car.

[Jim1556]

iguana said:

E36 M3 road 1500kg, racer 1150 caged, so easy 1100 minus full race cage & thats not really a modern car.

fk me, that's some weight loss! Yours? Pics please!...

[QBee]

Just be aware that there is one small downside to making your car non-road legal. A number of track days are specified "road car only", which requires the car to be driven to/from the circuit, ie not on a trailer. These days are there through popular demand from novice drivers, who have a fear of being intimidated by stripped out race cars coming up their chuff at warp factor 9, lap after lap.

We all know that in truth the most likely person to obey the rules fully is the talented amateur/semi-professional driver of the stripped out race car, and that the reality of the occasional Radical mating with your exhaust is just a giant "and?", but for the nervous beginner the fear is much greater than that reality.

There are plenty of "general car track days" out there, so go for it.

I agree with previous comments - roll over crashes are extremely rare - I am only aware of one car rolled in three years of track daying, and that was the now infamous BMW at Bedford, where the driver was (power-)sliding and kept the foot in for far longer than seemed sensible, apparently while under instruction, and ended up entering the gravel trap by the pit exit fully sideways and at speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unEONw5-x9s

[K4TRV]

Your profile says Hampshire; suggest you do a local search for your local Racing Car Club - one that comes up for your County is Farnborough District Motor Club?

They meet regularly and can give you all the info on what you need, not just for Track Days, but for sprints, autotests, slaloms, production car trials, Solo / Autosolo events. Anything that you want to do "Competitively" with your Alfa??

So do a search and meet up with fellow Petrol Heads - you might find all you need in line with the good advise given above?

HTH's ?

T

[Humour]

iguana said:

Robertmh said:

Out of interest, does anyone know if there is an actual class of racing that a 1.6 Alfa could be used for if correctly prepped?

The exceptionally slow & slug like shopping vehicle cup?

@Iguana LOL.

OP there are quite a few club level championships in the UK for Alfa's. You'll be surprised what you will find on Google here is one example.

I would have to agree with Iguana though, the smallest capacity engine/class in the Alfa series is the TS 16V 2 litre. A 1.6 in a 147 shell is unlikely to compete even with those, unless you add forced induction, then you might have to move up to another class.

On the other hand, if you had say an Alfa 33 with the 1.6/7 16V boxer engine and you had the budget to see Adie Hawkins at AHM Motorsports, you ought to be able to make a very competitive Alfa racer, with the bonus of being able to give Iguana's prepped M3 a dose of humble pie with the 'shopping vehicle cup' car a 280+ HP N/A Boxer 16V and a 9400rpm limit in an 800Kg shell has been raced by Adie to very good effect for a few years now, but as others have stated, it's about budgets, even if you do most of the work.

Humour.

P.S. I'd also start looking on this website first.

Edited by Humour on Tuesday 31st March 16:57

Edited by Humour on Tuesday 31st March 16:59

[FarQue]

Just returning to the mot question: I attended a recent 'track attack' day at 3 Sisters circuit on Saturday. Not a true track day - you buy 10 laps for £20, then another 10 laps for another £20 & so on. The organisers expect to see your driving licence and mot certificate at sign on. First visit to a track for me where mot is required /checked.

[andyiley]

FarQue said:

Just returning to the mot question: I attended a recent 'track attack' day at 3 Sisters circuit on Saturday. Not a true track day - you buy 10 laps for £20, then another 10 laps for another £20 & so on. The organisers expect to see your driving licence and mot certificate at sign on. First visit to a track for me where mot is required /checked.

I am going to guess that if you look in the Ts & Cs, that day was for "road legal cars only" then.

[Robertmh]

Thanks for all the replies. Been away for a week, so not really been able to reply. On the original question, it does still seem to get a little confusing. So what I am reading is that some track days will be for fully road legal cars only, and others would allow my track only converted Alfa.

With regards to racing the vehicle, I was just curious. I am very much aware that it is no performance car, and I am only using it at all as it is a free car, it would never ever be my car of choice.

I am now having second thoughts about the cage.

Robert