Novice at the Nurburgring?

[0llie]

I'll be going to the Nurburgring for my first laps this weekend. Still very much looking forward to it, despite reading loads up about it beforehand

I'll have to report back on how it goes

[spadriver]

One thing a lot of novices do when being caught another car at high speed is BRAKE! PLEASE dont do this.All it means is the following car catches you even faster.
Out in a mates GTR on Friday-circulating at a respectable rate, had a play with an M3 for a while, then going up towards Acht,( the uphill left before the left right into Acht) we were approaching a rental Clio and the guy brakes mid corner.Clio was only slightly out of shape, it was dry! But being in the middle of the track certainly caused an interesting moment for us. Seemed to be a lack of knowing hat was behind him, again MIRRORS can save lives or expensive repairs if you're lucky.

[RWD cossie wil]

spadriver said:

One thing a lot of novices do when being caught another car at high speed is BRAKE! PLEASE dont do this.All it means is the following car catches you even faster.
Out in a mates GTR on Friday-circulating at a respectable rate, had a play with an M3 for a while, then going up towards Acht,( the uphill left before the left right into Acht) we were approaching a rental Clio and the guy brakes mid corner.Clio was only slightly out of shape, it was dry! But being in the middle of the track certainly caused an interesting moment for us. Seemed to be a lack of knowing hat was behind him, again MIRRORS can save lives or expensive repairs if you're lucky.

It's a bit unfair blaming novices for braking when they are being pushed around by Heros out trying to set lap records on TF days! I'm here this weekend & I'm a novice, I'm getting out of the way & indicating to let people past, but there are some utter morons that just batter past you whatever the situation. I almost got wiped out by a hero in an E46 M3 yesterday when he decided that as I turned into the caroussel he would dive down the inside of me, forcing me out over the ridge & onto the high line.

Unsurpringly the circuit was shut most of the afternoon & early evening yesterday as the first time ring heros kept smashing their cars to bits!

[doogalman]

RWD cossie wil said:

I almost got wiped out by a hero in an E46 M3 yesterday when he decided that as I turned into the caroussel he would dive down the inside of me, forcing me out over the ridge & onto the high line.

Was he catcjing you on the run up from Steilstrecke?
If yes you should have given him right of way and taken the outside line thru the karussell. At all points on the track it is deemed a two lane highway in TF.

[spadriver]

RWD cossie wil said:

spadriver said:

One thing a lot of novices do when being caught another car at high speed is BRAKE! PLEASE dont do this.All it means is the following car catches you even faster.
Out in a mates GTR on Friday-circulating at a respectable rate, had a play with an M3 for a while, then going up towards Acht,( the uphill left before the left right into Acht) we were approaching a rental Clio and the guy brakes mid corner.Clio was only slightly out of shape, it was dry! But being in the middle of the track certainly caused an interesting moment for us. Seemed to be a lack of knowing hat was behind him, again MIRRORS can save lives or expensive repairs if you're lucky.

It's a bit unfair blaming novices for braking when they are being pushed around by Heros out trying to set lap records on TF days! I'm here this weekend & I'm a novice, I'm getting out of the way & indicating to let people past, but there are some utter morons that just batter past you whatever the situation. I almost got wiped out by a hero in an E46 M3 yesterday when he decided that as I turned into the caroussel he would dive down the inside of me, forcing me out over the ridge & onto the high line.

Unsurpringly the circuit was shut most of the afternoon & early evening yesterday as the first time ring heros kept smashing their cars to bits!

Not tarring all withe same brushBUT this driver was obviously a novice by using the amount/area to brake.On the whole the slower driven cars were very well behaved (not including the M3).But I also agree about the heros or people driving beyond thier skills.We all want the place to stay open and not give the State any ideas to the contrary.
Doogie, I totally agree about "something strange" only two cars out this morning viewed from the Grun Holle over a nice cup of coffee-just being nosey;)

[nickfrog]

RWD cossie wil said:

It's a bit unfair blaming novices for braking when they are being pushed around by Heros out trying to set lap records on TF days! I'm here this weekend & I'm a novice, I'm getting out of the way & indicating to let people past, but there are some utter morons that just batter past you whatever the situation. I almost got wiped out by a hero in an E46 M3 yesterday when he decided that as I turned into the caroussel he would dive down the inside of me, forcing me out over the ridge & onto the high line.

Here is the biggest issue with TF days : some drivers do not understand it's a public German road where the local highway code applies. He didn't dive down the inside, he overtook you using the overtaking lane. You didn't turn in, you illegally changed lane and would have been responsible in case of contact. Stay on top of the K unless you are overtaking and that the left lane is free of overtaking vehicles. Not sure what "hero" means in this context either : is it just because they know what they're doing ?

Edited by nickfrog on Sunday 3rd May 13:06

[RWD cossie wil]

nickfrog said:

RWD cossie wil said:

It's a bit unfair blaming novices for braking when they are being pushed around by Heros out trying to set lap records on TF days! I'm here this weekend & I'm a novice, I'm getting out of the way & indicating to let people past, but there are some utter morons that just batter past you whatever the situation. I almost got wiped out by a hero in an E46 M3 yesterday when he decided that as I turned into the caroussel he would dive down the inside of me, forcing me out over the ridge & onto the high line.

Here is the biggest issue with TF days : some drivers do not understand it's a public German road where the local highway code applies. He didn't dive down the inside, he overtook you using the overtaking lane. You didn't turn in, you illegally changed lane and would have been responsible in case of contact. Stay on top of the K unless you are overtaking and that the left lane is free of overtaking vehicles. Not sure what "hero" means in this context either : is it just because they know what they're doing ?

Edited by nickfrog on Sunday 3rd May 13:06

The point being I'm a good few car lengths ahead, I'm already committed at speed, turning into the corner. I had to take evasive action to avoid a collision, he would have side swiped me had I not. There were plenty of drivers overtaking me, each, some going way faster... None of them felt the need to put us both at risk going for a gap that isn't there!

Hero meaning that I'm a ring novice & I'm not ashamed to admit it, but it's not hard to drive safely, move out of the way for faster cars & not smash your car up.

The afternoon yesterday was a joke, people were binning it all afternoon & shutting the track minutes after it was open, that to me says people are driving way too hard & way out of their depth!

[nickfrog]

I've given up on TF for that reason tbh. Sorry, my post was not particularly courteous btw!!!!

[juggsy]

Very timely post for me, hoping to pop my Nurburgring cherry in July as part of a 2 week Euro road trip. Day I'm planning on doing the drive, the ring is open from 5.15pm so not sure how busy it will be. Nervous at the prospect but its been on my bucket list for so long I'm looking forward to giving it a go.

Managed to convice the wife as I'm taking her to a spa hotel in Baden Baden beforehand

[andyiley]

I hate to say this, but if I were to offer you any advice it would be DO NOT DO AN EVENING ONLY SESSION TOURIST DRIVE! They tend to be frequented by locals in ridiculously fast cars who know the 'ring all too well.

You WILL be a fish out of water if you are lucky, at worst you will be EXTREMELY intimidated by all that is going on around you.

The best time to pop your cherry is as soon as it opens on a Sunday.

[Turkish91]

I did the Ring as my first ever track experience last August, and am writing this from Adenau right now, having been here since Thursday. If you're a petrolhead it is literally Mecca, the place is just amazing you won't regret it!

And yes, TF days can be absolutely mental; the locals will often take no prisoners whatsoever when it comes to overtaking a novice! My advice would be watch your mirrors like a hawk and get well out of the way of faster motors nice and early so as to well establish your position on the track, and obviously make sure you don't wander back across until they've come past and it's clear again!

Also... Don't time your laps! If you really do want to know times (like me, nothing like ignoring your own advice!) then use a GoPro etc and look back at the footage afterwards.

[spadriver]

One other thing to be aware of is the speed limits.Max is 130kph, have an accident in excess of this and the Polizei will not take it lightly!
Out of curiosity I called in to have a look yesterday morning, lots of brits turning up in nicely presentd car, saddly not how they all remained.
RE evening TF, whilst largely the local quick boys are out, but I have had some gloriously deserted laps after six thirty, a couple of weeks ago in a friends italian "supercar", absolutely desrted for two complete laps-heaven!!!!

[ukkid35]

Not sure why no one has mentioned the importance of PAX laps. Ideally these will be with a friend who has a number of years experience, but failing that it is easy to hitch rides with strangers by talking with people in the TF car park and getting a feel for their experience and attitude. Of course you can also do the Ring-Taxi, but that obviously isn't free like the other options I've mentioned.

I still like hitching a ride on TF days before I go out on track, I use them as sighting laps.

I've only got about 250 laps driving experience (and at least 50 PAX laps), and I still consider myself a novice - or rather someone who has just enough experience to think they know what they are doing - and we all know how well that can end.

[nickfrog]

spadriver said:

One other thing to be aware of is the speed limits.Max is 130kph, have an accident in excess of this and the Polizei will not take it lightly!!!!!

There is no 130kph limits on a TF day, thankfully. Just 2 (much lower) speed limited areas. Utterly irrelevant for us Brit anyway as we have no third party cover anyway, whether doing 3 or 300 kph.

[doogalman]

nickfrog said:

There is no 130kph limits on a TF day, thankfully. Just 2 (much lower) speed limited areas. Utterly irrelevant for us Brit anyway as we have no third party cover anyway, whether doing 3 or 300 kph.

Though certain sections of autobahn may not have a speed limit, all highways have a “Richtgeschwindigkeit,” or recommended speed limit, of 130 kph.

In this case, speeding faster than 130 kph won’t get you a ticket, however, guilt can be determined if speeding is found to be a factor in an accident.

[nickfrog]

Speed can be an aggravating factor even at 50, 70 or 100 even if the speed is unrestricted but the conditions or circumstances dictate a lower speed than the one observed. Going over 130kph at the Ring is neither illegal nor a threshold of any kind.

[davepoth]

MIRRORS again, especially if your car it slower than a 911 GT3. I drove round in an E30 BMW - it's a good job I've got a vague idea of which way the track goes from various racing games as I hardly looked forwards for the whole lap.

[spadriver]

nickfrog said:

Speed can be an aggravating factor even at 50, 70 or 100 even if the speed is unrestricted but the conditions or circumstances dictate a lower speed than the one observed. Going over 130kph at the Ring is neither illegal nor a threshold of any kind.

I think you will find that it is a "grey area" Nick.Even 130 on a road such as what the ring is, has been thought to be illegal since roads of its type are generally restricted to 100kph.
We (instructors) are advised that 130 is to be regarded as the max.Its up to the individual whether its obeyed or not.

[Adenauer]

Just to dispel any myths about the 130kph 'Richtgeschwindikeit', you might like to have a look at this (novice or 'instructor'), you will see that there is no mention of the 130kph, and there never has been by the 'ring themselves, 130kph is the recommended speed in Germany for driving on unrestricted sections of the Autobahn according to the StVO. The Nordschleife isn't a motorway, it is classified as a multiple lane one way road.

Whether or not the 'instructors' are told to treat that as a maximum speed by their employers has no relevance to anyone else driving Touristenfahrt.

The last part of the regulations 'Excerpt from section 3...' explains how one is to drive on the Nordschleife during Touristenfahrt.

http://www.nuerburgring.de/fileadmin/Touristenfahr...

[spadriver]

Yes Karl, read that quite a few times, also tried arguing the point with "The highly informed onw"who has always insisted that it is a grey area on the grounds that it is not an autobahn ie, dual carriageway.
So just to keep on the right side I also asked a local polizei (freundlisch version) and he told me the same, so I natural ly took it as read
Intetesting read the section on photography btw.)