Novice at the Nurburgring?
Discussion
I'm looking for some advice please. I'm touring around Germany in my BMW 1M in June. I'd love a few laps of the 'ring when I'm there but am very apprehensive. The 1M is my daily driver and although I like to consider myself a reasonable driver I have practically no track experience. Reading the thread about insurance at the Nurburgring has really put me off: I can't afford to wreck my car. Is it really practical (or sensible) to turn up one evening and do a few laps with minimal risk or is it a crazy dream? Thanks
Everybody has a first lap, so take it slow, a "sighting" lap to see what it is like. Get used to the bits that are not what you would expect (Adenauer Forst on one, because it's a far enough in to build up a bit of confidence! )
Drive your first lap like a rally car making track notes, and keep one eye on the rear view mirror.
After that, you should be OK, you just need to know the couple of bits that are unsighted and can catch people out.
Drive your first lap like a rally car making track notes, and keep one eye on the rear view mirror.
After that, you should be OK, you just need to know the couple of bits that are unsighted and can catch people out.
I was in a similar position last year, in my Porsche 993.
I always wanted to go to the Ring so decided I'd go around (without any insurance). I went on a track day rather than a tourist day as it is much quieter. You could do half a lap without seeing any other cars.
I also let my best mate drive my car around too. We were both sensible and took it really easy, we wasn't there to set lap times but more for the experience of driving around the Ring.
We both knew the consequenses if we were to crash, which made us even more sensible.
Good luck
I always wanted to go to the Ring so decided I'd go around (without any insurance). I went on a track day rather than a tourist day as it is much quieter. You could do half a lap without seeing any other cars.
I also let my best mate drive my car around too. We were both sensible and took it really easy, we wasn't there to set lap times but more for the experience of driving around the Ring.
We both knew the consequenses if we were to crash, which made us even more sensible.
Good luck
I've been twice last year and heading back in May and I'm still treating laps as sighting laps.
When I was there last time we had a run to Adenau to spectate and a Porsche wiped out in front of us, dumping coolant all over the track and causing brown trousers for anyone that passed for the next 10 minutes. Things change so fast there, it went from perfect conditions to bambi on ice in seconds. Luckily nobody else crashed but there were some very close calls
Take the first laps easy, don't expect (or try) a lap record and watch your mirrors...nothing humbles you like thinking you're flying and having a local in a bog standard Golf TDi pass you like you're stood still. Main thing is just enjoy the place
When I was there last time we had a run to Adenau to spectate and a Porsche wiped out in front of us, dumping coolant all over the track and causing brown trousers for anyone that passed for the next 10 minutes. Things change so fast there, it went from perfect conditions to bambi on ice in seconds. Luckily nobody else crashed but there were some very close calls
Take the first laps easy, don't expect (or try) a lap record and watch your mirrors...nothing humbles you like thinking you're flying and having a local in a bog standard Golf TDi pass you like you're stood still. Main thing is just enjoy the place
I went through something similar.
I mentioned to the Mrs last year that the Ring was on my 'to do' list. She said, well lets go do it.
It morphed into a four day euro trip taking in France and the Porsche Factory and museum at Stuttgart before arriving for 2 days at the ring.
I watched all the vids, read all the forums, winced at the costs of getting it wrong and all the horror stories. I too was in my P + J, a lowly Boxster S but it still gave me sleepless nights thinking about possible damage!!
Then I found out I was there during 'Karfreitag' which is one of, if not the, maddest day of the year by all accounts. Great.
Anyhow, we rocked up the evening before, found the entrance and parked up. Watched a bit of the tooing and froing and figured out how it all worked, then sucked it up and bought 1 lap :-)
Full of trepidation we set off. As it happened, this evening the track was running the VLN layout, so we got a trip around the GP circuit thrown into the bargain. From watching videos I had a rough idea of about, the first four corners and then it was all a mystery.
I was never worried about my own talent (or lack of it) I knew I would not be going anywhere near my or the cars limits, its the other guys I can't legislate for. I tasked the Mrs with keeping an eye on the mirrors and off we went. We got passed....lots, but you drive to what you can see and take it very easy when you can't. Kept one eye on the mirrors at all times, indicated every time I got caught, and it was just fine.
Next day, car Friday, was indeed, just totally bonkers. Cars and people everywhere, but even then, we bought another lap and did our circuit inbetween the inevitable closures. I personally didn't find it too bad at all.
Yes, its scary, yes its daunting, yes you will be passed by even the most humble of barges going at speeds you wouldn't think possible but that is its enduring appeal I would guess.
Drive well within your limits, keep one eye on the mirrors, be aware whats coming and signal well ahead of them arriving at you and you should be fine. Yes its risky, especially if you're driving the car that needs to get you home, and you have to acknowledge and accept that part of it, but having done it would I do it again...hell yes. :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7W58Tj0JKA
If you want to see the very first lap.
I mentioned to the Mrs last year that the Ring was on my 'to do' list. She said, well lets go do it.
It morphed into a four day euro trip taking in France and the Porsche Factory and museum at Stuttgart before arriving for 2 days at the ring.
I watched all the vids, read all the forums, winced at the costs of getting it wrong and all the horror stories. I too was in my P + J, a lowly Boxster S but it still gave me sleepless nights thinking about possible damage!!
Then I found out I was there during 'Karfreitag' which is one of, if not the, maddest day of the year by all accounts. Great.
Anyhow, we rocked up the evening before, found the entrance and parked up. Watched a bit of the tooing and froing and figured out how it all worked, then sucked it up and bought 1 lap :-)
Full of trepidation we set off. As it happened, this evening the track was running the VLN layout, so we got a trip around the GP circuit thrown into the bargain. From watching videos I had a rough idea of about, the first four corners and then it was all a mystery.
I was never worried about my own talent (or lack of it) I knew I would not be going anywhere near my or the cars limits, its the other guys I can't legislate for. I tasked the Mrs with keeping an eye on the mirrors and off we went. We got passed....lots, but you drive to what you can see and take it very easy when you can't. Kept one eye on the mirrors at all times, indicated every time I got caught, and it was just fine.
Next day, car Friday, was indeed, just totally bonkers. Cars and people everywhere, but even then, we bought another lap and did our circuit inbetween the inevitable closures. I personally didn't find it too bad at all.
Yes, its scary, yes its daunting, yes you will be passed by even the most humble of barges going at speeds you wouldn't think possible but that is its enduring appeal I would guess.
Drive well within your limits, keep one eye on the mirrors, be aware whats coming and signal well ahead of them arriving at you and you should be fine. Yes its risky, especially if you're driving the car that needs to get you home, and you have to acknowledge and accept that part of it, but having done it would I do it again...hell yes. :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7W58Tj0JKA
If you want to see the very first lap.
Edited by TbirdX on Wednesday 22 April 20:40
Another point worth considering is that it's very easy there to get sucked into 'keeping up' with seemingly slower cars
I've seen a few people come unstuck by trying to keep up with a local in a slower car, who knows the track and all it's many corners and bumps very well
With that place, and especially on a first time, you need to not try and get a red mist descend or even just try and pace yourself against someone else
They have instructors there that will sit with you for your first lap and give you pointers (from memory about Eu50 per lap), but it's money well spent, and if nothing else, then another set of eyes is always a good thing
Have fun and you've got an awesome car for that place
I've seen a few people come unstuck by trying to keep up with a local in a slower car, who knows the track and all it's many corners and bumps very well
With that place, and especially on a first time, you need to not try and get a red mist descend or even just try and pace yourself against someone else
They have instructors there that will sit with you for your first lap and give you pointers (from memory about Eu50 per lap), but it's money well spent, and if nothing else, then another set of eyes is always a good thing
Have fun and you've got an awesome car for that place
Well, first thing is to do it, if you go with the right frame of mind and watch out for others it is not as scary as some stories you will read, that said, there is not a lot of room for error round the 'Ring, so respect is due.
Try and watch laps on YouTube, visit the Northloop forum, very helpful bunch, BridgeToGantry is another great source of info.
Do some Forza / GT5 laps, they do help.
Another thing to bear in mind is that you can easily do the entire lap in 3rd and 4th gear which means you can worry about where you are on the road and the other cars, one less thing to think about.
Tatty German plate golf's are actually very fast, so don't go chasing them.
If you are going to do some TF days, chances are you are not insured. an organised trackday is much better in that regard.
I was there on the 1st and 2nd of April in the snow, that certiainly focuses the mind
Try and watch laps on YouTube, visit the Northloop forum, very helpful bunch, BridgeToGantry is another great source of info.
Do some Forza / GT5 laps, they do help.
Another thing to bear in mind is that you can easily do the entire lap in 3rd and 4th gear which means you can worry about where you are on the road and the other cars, one less thing to think about.
Tatty German plate golf's are actually very fast, so don't go chasing them.
If you are going to do some TF days, chances are you are not insured. an organised trackday is much better in that regard.
I was there on the 1st and 2nd of April in the snow, that certiainly focuses the mind
Make sure you memorise the track by playing Gran Turismo or watching Youtube vids beforehand. It won't really tell you the bumps, camber or elevation changes but at least you'll know what the next corner looks like.
It's amazing fun, just drive sensibly and look in your mirrors, especially for GT3s which all seem to go at crazy speeds. Like other people have said, don't try and keep up with the locals. I was embarrassed by a 123d on my first run but managed to improve a lot by my third
https://youtu.be/RYp8j2XKG4o
It's amazing fun, just drive sensibly and look in your mirrors, especially for GT3s which all seem to go at crazy speeds. Like other people have said, don't try and keep up with the locals. I was embarrassed by a 123d on my first run but managed to improve a lot by my third
https://youtu.be/RYp8j2XKG4o
As said above, we were all novices once, keep right look in yr mirrors, mid wk evening can be some glorious empty laps, must say tho I am always amazed that folks with no track or race craft want to lap the 'ring when they have pretty much no clue what they are doing on track tho.
Edited by iguana on Thursday 23 April 21:18
Personally I think driving on the Ring on a TF day is not worth it. There are plenty of tracks you can do an organised track day without the risks. You are expected to have 3rd party insurance on the Ring. Your insurance company will have to pay out but will pursue you for the costs - even driving a £500 banger could ruin you if you are deemed responsible for wrecking someone's Enzo.
That said, the Ring is an awesome place if you love cars. My advice would be to go there, watch some action (and the inevitable crashes), eat in the Pistenklaus, have a few beers and just take it all in. If you have a 1M and don't have bags of cash then don't risk it. The worry when a GT3 buzzes you doing over 160 towards a blind crest with some other nutter chasing them down will ruin the experience.
I say this and I love track driving but the Ring on a busy TF is something else. It's madness. There will be plenty of people on here who will tell you I'm scaremongering or just worrying you about nothing but I sense that you are the sort of person that prefers calculated risk to recklessness.
That said, the Ring is an awesome place if you love cars. My advice would be to go there, watch some action (and the inevitable crashes), eat in the Pistenklaus, have a few beers and just take it all in. If you have a 1M and don't have bags of cash then don't risk it. The worry when a GT3 buzzes you doing over 160 towards a blind crest with some other nutter chasing them down will ruin the experience.
I say this and I love track driving but the Ring on a busy TF is something else. It's madness. There will be plenty of people on here who will tell you I'm scaremongering or just worrying you about nothing but I sense that you are the sort of person that prefers calculated risk to recklessness.
My first driven lap was pretty hairy, even though I went two years running with my father when I was 15 and 16. As everyone's said just take it slow, and try to get out when the queues are fairly short, usually means you have *less* traffic to contend with. Make sure you give yourself enough space on track as well. I've taken my Integra 3 years running now and have 38 laps under my belt, we are heading out again at the end of August.
Someone said on a video last week "the nürburgring is the epicentre, the nucleus of Motorsport globally", and I have to agree, it is absolutely fantastic!
If you respect the car and the circuit they will respect you. Go for it and enjoy it!
Someone said on a video last week "the nürburgring is the epicentre, the nucleus of Motorsport globally", and I have to agree, it is absolutely fantastic!
If you respect the car and the circuit they will respect you. Go for it and enjoy it!
+1 for rental (when I started going there years back I always rented and was over 50 laps before I started taking my own car). You only need the cheapest, "slowest" car that is offered (Swifts and Clios starting at a couple of hundred Euros - for your first laps you really won't need more power), they'll brief you and you will know your excess exposure in a worst case scenario (which obviously will only be a tiny fraction of the value of your own pride and joy).
I too am thinking about a Ring trip;
however, I have driven it before - although a long time ago (10 years)
I was very, very lucky my first time - I drove it on a closed track with about 20 cars on it in total, in groups of 3-4, all having radios, and with a race driver up front showing the way !
I read more and more horror stories, and the more I read the more it puts me off.
However, it's something I stil want to do (again..)
So I share your concerns -
the best advice I was given was to drive it just like a UK country road - almost assuming that there will be oncoming traffic !
Breathe, relax, and enjoy the drive
however, I have driven it before - although a long time ago (10 years)
I was very, very lucky my first time - I drove it on a closed track with about 20 cars on it in total, in groups of 3-4, all having radios, and with a race driver up front showing the way !
I read more and more horror stories, and the more I read the more it puts me off.
However, it's something I stil want to do (again..)
So I share your concerns -
the best advice I was given was to drive it just like a UK country road - almost assuming that there will be oncoming traffic !
Breathe, relax, and enjoy the drive
DiscoColin said:
+1 for rental (when I started going there years back I always rented and was over 50 laps before I started taking my own car). You only need the cheapest, "slowest" car that is offered (Swifts and Clios starting at a couple of hundred Euros - for your first laps you really won't need more power), they'll brief you and you will know your excess exposure in a worst case scenario (which obviously will only be a tiny fraction of the value of your own pride and joy).
£395 for four laps including ticket and decent insurance.Brand new Cooper S' s,????? Im sure there are a few others who rate the Mini around the Ring on here.Probably not home yet though.spadriver said:
DiscoColin said:
+1 for rental (when I started going there years back I always rented and was over 50 laps before I started taking my own car). You only need the cheapest, "slowest" car that is offered (Swifts and Clios starting at a couple of hundred Euros - for your first laps you really won't need more power), they'll brief you and you will know your excess exposure in a worst case scenario (which obviously will only be a tiny fraction of the value of your own pride and joy).
£395 for four laps including ticket and decent insurance.Brand new Cooper S' s,????? Im sure there are a few others who rate the Mini around the Ring on here.Probably not home yet though.Mini at £395/4 laps all in is still reasonable value though (and once you know where you are going, a bit more power for the uphill sections rapidly becomes more desirable). A lot of people think that rental prices at the 'ring are expensive, but when you factor in what it really costs (remember just the lap ticket and fuel on that is a big proportion to begin with) you are getting more for your money than you think. It isn't something that you can compare to renting a Polo in Spain or anything like that.
Yes, quite right and not forgetting the insurance costs to the provider.Although there must be differences of excess between them? I dont know, only guessing as I doubt all rental companies would be using the same one.
Not fishing for work but would always advise to have an instructor on board for the first one or two laps-he (hopefully) will know the place like the back of his hand and would most likely have seen the antics that some are prone to, if you can see it coming theres more chance of avoiding it.
Not fishing for work but would always advise to have an instructor on board for the first one or two laps-he (hopefully) will know the place like the back of his hand and would most likely have seen the antics that some are prone to, if you can see it coming theres more chance of avoiding it.
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