£20k Track Day car - also good for the drive there
Discussion
otolith said:
It isn't so much the engine noise as the wind and road noise with the earlier cars having less soundproofing.
Wind noise is pretty bad in my S1. Also NVH can be a bit more harsh with a honda conversion.Not wanting to fixate on Lotuses, but a series 2 Exige s is still my shout. Great on track, cheap to run, perfectly usable on the road for the drives there, in fact perfectly usable on the road full stop.
just reading between the lines the way the OP wrote, i reckon he'll opt for Porsche.
I do however think that he'd be wise to consider the lighter more focused machines. Your first track is exciting, but you can soon tire of a fat sloppy road car...
Worth considering Nobles and Ginettas, but let's be honest, they're not reliable.... cue counter posts!
OP has a Land Rover, how about towing a Caterham?
i have fantasised about buying a large white van that could consume a Formula Ford or a Caterham on the floor with sleeping bench above. heaven.
I do however think that he'd be wise to consider the lighter more focused machines. Your first track is exciting, but you can soon tire of a fat sloppy road car...
Worth considering Nobles and Ginettas, but let's be honest, they're not reliable.... cue counter posts!
OP has a Land Rover, how about towing a Caterham?
i have fantasised about buying a large white van that could consume a Formula Ford or a Caterham on the floor with sleeping bench above. heaven.
Robert Elise said:
just reading between the lines the way the OP wrote, i reckon he'll opt for Porsche.
I do however think that he'd be wise to consider the lighter more focused machines. Your first track is exciting, but you can soon tire of a fat sloppy road car...
Worth considering Nobles and Ginettas, but let's be honest, they're not reliable.... cue counter posts!
OP has a Land Rover, how about towing a Caterham?
i have fantasised about buying a large white van that could consume a Formula Ford or a Caterham on the floor with sleeping bench above. heaven.
7.5 tonner with a big tail lift - job's a goodunI do however think that he'd be wise to consider the lighter more focused machines. Your first track is exciting, but you can soon tire of a fat sloppy road car...
Worth considering Nobles and Ginettas, but let's be honest, they're not reliable.... cue counter posts!
OP has a Land Rover, how about towing a Caterham?
i have fantasised about buying a large white van that could consume a Formula Ford or a Caterham on the floor with sleeping bench above. heaven.
Thanks for all the ideas, Lotus is coming up a lot so I am going there tomorrow to test out. Didn't realise I had a lotus main dealer 5 mins from home.
Really like the look of the Evora, though it is pricey. If it's really good I'd even consider getting rid of my 430 for one.
I do have a Range Rover daily driver, but i don't really have anywhere to store a trailer. I don't mind long drives so it's ok to go and come back the same day so long as it doesn't turn into torture.
I would rather not go for a Porsche (sorry fans!) but I don't respect the brand that much after selling out with SUVs all over the place. I like the idea of a Lotus a lot more! Still if the car is perfect I won't let s badge put me off. I drove my dads brand new boxster and it didn't do that much for me. But never tried the Cayman. Feel like I'd always wish I had a 911 as that is the 'proper' Porsche, but as I say keeping an open mind.
Will see what Lotus is all about tomorrow and go from there, thanks for the tips. I've never actually considered a lotus before!
Really like the look of the Evora, though it is pricey. If it's really good I'd even consider getting rid of my 430 for one.
I do have a Range Rover daily driver, but i don't really have anywhere to store a trailer. I don't mind long drives so it's ok to go and come back the same day so long as it doesn't turn into torture.
I would rather not go for a Porsche (sorry fans!) but I don't respect the brand that much after selling out with SUVs all over the place. I like the idea of a Lotus a lot more! Still if the car is perfect I won't let s badge put me off. I drove my dads brand new boxster and it didn't do that much for me. But never tried the Cayman. Feel like I'd always wish I had a 911 as that is the 'proper' Porsche, but as I say keeping an open mind.
Will see what Lotus is all about tomorrow and go from there, thanks for the tips. I've never actually considered a lotus before!
I've owned (and tracked)
e36 M3
e46 M3 (standard, and with brake / suspension upgrades)
Lotus Elise SC
Porsche Cayman S
I live in Lowestoft, Suffolk so have to drive a reasonable distance to most circuits other than Snetterton. I also never wanted the hassle of towing a car all that way.
Based on what you've described, I would personally buy a 2008 onwards Lotus Exige S or Elise SC.
Both are supercharged so fast enough on the straights, obviously great fun round the bends, easy on brakes and tyres, and more than comfortable enough on long journeys. Especially if you get the 'touring pack' and air conditioning.
They also depreciate very slowly compared to most other cars in the same price bracket.
e36 M3
e46 M3 (standard, and with brake / suspension upgrades)
Lotus Elise SC
Porsche Cayman S
I live in Lowestoft, Suffolk so have to drive a reasonable distance to most circuits other than Snetterton. I also never wanted the hassle of towing a car all that way.
Based on what you've described, I would personally buy a 2008 onwards Lotus Exige S or Elise SC.
Both are supercharged so fast enough on the straights, obviously great fun round the bends, easy on brakes and tyres, and more than comfortable enough on long journeys. Especially if you get the 'touring pack' and air conditioning.
They also depreciate very slowly compared to most other cars in the same price bracket.
sealtt said:
Thanks for all the ideas, Lotus is coming up a lot so I am going there tomorrow to test out. Didn't realise I had a lotus main dealer 5 mins from home.
Really like the look of the Evora, though it is pricey. If it's really good I'd even consider getting rid of my 430 for one.
I do have a Range Rover daily driver, but i don't really have anywhere to store a trailer. I don't mind long drives so it's ok to go and come back the same day so long as it doesn't turn into torture.
I would rather not go for a Porsche (sorry fans!) but I don't respect the brand that much after selling out with SUVs all over the place. I like the idea of a Lotus a lot more! Still if the car is perfect I won't let s badge put me off. I drove my dads brand new boxster and it didn't do that much for me. But never tried the Cayman. Feel like I'd always wish I had a 911 as that is the 'proper' Porsche, but as I say keeping an open mind.
Will see what Lotus is all about tomorrow and go from there, thanks for the tips. I've never actually considered a lotus before!
Let us know how you find them. If getting rid of the 430 is an option I think you'll really like the Exige v6, maybe the exige v6 roadster if you want keep the fun of having no roof.Really like the look of the Evora, though it is pricey. If it's really good I'd even consider getting rid of my 430 for one.
I do have a Range Rover daily driver, but i don't really have anywhere to store a trailer. I don't mind long drives so it's ok to go and come back the same day so long as it doesn't turn into torture.
I would rather not go for a Porsche (sorry fans!) but I don't respect the brand that much after selling out with SUVs all over the place. I like the idea of a Lotus a lot more! Still if the car is perfect I won't let s badge put me off. I drove my dads brand new boxster and it didn't do that much for me. But never tried the Cayman. Feel like I'd always wish I had a 911 as that is the 'proper' Porsche, but as I say keeping an open mind.
Will see what Lotus is all about tomorrow and go from there, thanks for the tips. I've never actually considered a lotus before!
Thanks, will do. The dealer has most models in stock so I should be able to get a really good feel for which model suits best.
I would consider shopping in the F430 if required, but my girlfriend and daughter would kill me! Probably just try and make the original budget work if possible, better too as less money tied up in metal being thrown around a track. We'll see how it goes tomorrow
I would consider shopping in the F430 if required, but my girlfriend and daughter would kill me! Probably just try and make the original budget work if possible, better too as less money tied up in metal being thrown around a track. We'll see how it goes tomorrow
Type R Tom said:
otolith said:
Most of the Honda converted cars are series one or earlier series two cars, though; which means that those ear plugs may be a necessity.
On track possibly but with a 6 speed box motorway speed wouldn't be too bad, from memory 65mph is about 3.5k rpm on an FN2.Ok just back from Lotus dealership. First of all what fantastic service, really great sales guy who knows his stuff. Highly recommended - westover Poole.
So tried out the 1.8 supercharged Elise and even though the novelty of it having the same name as my girlfriend was great, the car really didn't deliver what I was looking for. Not powerful enough and not enough of a 'car' felt too much like a toy, I actually like the car feel.
Next went out in the Evora S, so also supercharged of course. It was brand new and I thought the cabin was lovely. A perfect balance between sporty basics and a touch of luxury to make the drive to the track comfy. The handling is fantastic and the engine punchy and definitely a quick little car. My biggest issue, I just can't see the point in an Evora and a f430 in the garage. With both of them there, the f430 is just always going to win as despite everything it just has that noise and drama that the Evora can't match on its own. Drive them both properly and that changes, but as an ultra novice a lot of the drama and excitement for me has to come from the car, and noise and low down power and big parts of that.
I really want to get the Evora I think it's so good, but I'd regret selling my f430 for one - especially losing the cabrio functionality - and having both cars makes very little sense, I'd rather just buy a 458. As such unfortunately no purchases today and I don't think there will be.
I will keep on eye on the 400 though, who knows that might have that added splash of drama required. In the meantime I'm going to try and find a way to make my f430 quieter!!!
So tried out the 1.8 supercharged Elise and even though the novelty of it having the same name as my girlfriend was great, the car really didn't deliver what I was looking for. Not powerful enough and not enough of a 'car' felt too much like a toy, I actually like the car feel.
Next went out in the Evora S, so also supercharged of course. It was brand new and I thought the cabin was lovely. A perfect balance between sporty basics and a touch of luxury to make the drive to the track comfy. The handling is fantastic and the engine punchy and definitely a quick little car. My biggest issue, I just can't see the point in an Evora and a f430 in the garage. With both of them there, the f430 is just always going to win as despite everything it just has that noise and drama that the Evora can't match on its own. Drive them both properly and that changes, but as an ultra novice a lot of the drama and excitement for me has to come from the car, and noise and low down power and big parts of that.
I really want to get the Evora I think it's so good, but I'd regret selling my f430 for one - especially losing the cabrio functionality - and having both cars makes very little sense, I'd rather just buy a 458. As such unfortunately no purchases today and I don't think there will be.
I will keep on eye on the 400 though, who knows that might have that added splash of drama required. In the meantime I'm going to try and find a way to make my f430 quieter!!!
Don't be quick to overlook an E92 M3.
Not as light as the above mentioned cars, but it disguises it weight well,
I'd recommend one with EDC; definitely a noticeable difference on track.
With the benefit if M Dynamic Mode, its good for novices on track like ourselves ;-)
Upgrade the brakes for a BBK from Brembo, AP Racing etc as stock brakes don't last very long.
A set of Michelin cup 2's, and your track ready without loosing the cars comfort for road use.
Not as light as the above mentioned cars, but it disguises it weight well,
I'd recommend one with EDC; definitely a noticeable difference on track.
With the benefit if M Dynamic Mode, its good for novices on track like ourselves ;-)
Upgrade the brakes for a BBK from Brembo, AP Racing etc as stock brakes don't last very long.
A set of Michelin cup 2's, and your track ready without loosing the cars comfort for road use.
I see where you are coming from with your comments.
It's a shame the v6 exiges aren't around 30k yet, or that could have hit the spot potentially.
Personally I like the toy car nature. For me a track day is an event and I want the car to be a bit silly as well (I'm not committed enough to go atom or caterham though). When focused on just the driving everything apart from the wheel, pedals and gear lever fade in to the background anyway.
I see you say you're looking at making the 430 quieter for trackdays, well done for giving the car some proper usage
It's a shame the v6 exiges aren't around 30k yet, or that could have hit the spot potentially.
Personally I like the toy car nature. For me a track day is an event and I want the car to be a bit silly as well (I'm not committed enough to go atom or caterham though). When focused on just the driving everything apart from the wheel, pedals and gear lever fade in to the background anyway.
I see you say you're looking at making the 430 quieter for trackdays, well done for giving the car some proper usage
Try one of these.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...
I would put some different dampers on, Nitron or Intrax but other than that not much is needed.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...
I would put some different dampers on, Nitron or Intrax but other than that not much is needed.
Lotus Exige or Lotus Evora are good choices but if you have a £20,000-£30,000 budget I would try something more trackday focused like an Ariel Atom or Caterham. Try a Caterham as they are awesome trackday cars and once you have driven one you will be hooked. I have an Audi R8 which is a fantastic trackday car but not as much fun as my Caterham.
You mention most circuits are between 4 to 6 hours away but you seem to be overlooking great circuits around you, e.g; Goodwood 1.5 hours, Castle Combe 2 hours, Silverstone 2.5 hours, etc
You mention most circuits are between 4 to 6 hours away but you seem to be overlooking great circuits around you, e.g; Goodwood 1.5 hours, Castle Combe 2 hours, Silverstone 2.5 hours, etc
Yes, I think as the Elise S didn't quite do it for me, the sort of cars which I do start to find enjoyable - e.g. the Evora S - are getting right up there in price to the point where I may as well just use my F430 and spend the money on track day insurance and a quieter exhaust (if that is even possible).
I am seriously impressed with the Evora S though, has the F430 beat for cruising ability and it's incredible handling. Just needs a bit more drama from the exhaust noise & a touch more power to really feel lively even lower down the rev range.
I am seriously impressed with the Evora S though, has the F430 beat for cruising ability and it's incredible handling. Just needs a bit more drama from the exhaust noise & a touch more power to really feel lively even lower down the rev range.
Stuart0620 said:
Lotus Exige or Lotus Evora are good choices but if you have a £20,000-£30,000 budget I would try something more trackday focused like an Ariel Atom or Caterham. Try a Caterham as they are awesome trackday cars and once you have driven one you will be hooked. I have an Audi R8 which is a fantastic trackday car but not as much fun as my Caterham.
You mention most circuits are between 4 to 6 hours away but you seem to be overlooking great circuits around you, e.g; Goodwood 1.5 hours, Castle Combe 2 hours, Silverstone 2.5 hours, etc
Yes I meant 4-6 hours round trip. All those places take at least 4 hours once you factor in traffic and stops. It's a lot of driving in an all out sports car before and after a long day on the track. You mention most circuits are between 4 to 6 hours away but you seem to be overlooking great circuits around you, e.g; Goodwood 1.5 hours, Castle Combe 2 hours, Silverstone 2.5 hours, etc
OP admits to being a track noob. the cycle normally goes one of two paths:
- big fast road car, ooh that's a bit heavy, get something lighter, power isn't the whole story, mods, compromise the drive there to enjoy a more focused track experience & you're hooked!
- try a couple of track days. quite good fun, but been there got the T-shirt back to road cars.
deciding what car to get before driving on track is wrong simply because track driving is different to road driving.
Best advice: hire a few cars at track first to better understand. It's not too expensive to hire MX5s, Caterhams and prepped BMWs.
- big fast road car, ooh that's a bit heavy, get something lighter, power isn't the whole story, mods, compromise the drive there to enjoy a more focused track experience & you're hooked!
- try a couple of track days. quite good fun, but been there got the T-shirt back to road cars.
deciding what car to get before driving on track is wrong simply because track driving is different to road driving.
Best advice: hire a few cars at track first to better understand. It's not too expensive to hire MX5s, Caterhams and prepped BMWs.
Robert Elise said:
OP admits to being a track noob. the cycle normally goes one of two paths:
- big fast road car, ooh that's a bit heavy, get something lighter, power isn't the whole story, mods, compromise the drive there to enjoy a more focused track experience & you're hooked!
- try a couple of track days. quite good fun, but been there got the T-shirt back to road cars.
deciding what car to get before driving on track is wrong simply because track driving is different to road driving.
Best advice: hire a few cars at track first to better understand. It's not too expensive to hire MX5s, Caterhams and prepped BMWs.
Well I did a track day in my F430 Spider before and I loved it. I also did some time on track (a half hour at Castle Combe) in a borrowed 458 Spider which was even better, but too expensive. So I do like this style of car, though from a practical side of things - risk of totalling an expensive piece of metal, UK track sound limits, etc - I wanted to investigate slightly cheaper alternatives.- big fast road car, ooh that's a bit heavy, get something lighter, power isn't the whole story, mods, compromise the drive there to enjoy a more focused track experience & you're hooked!
- try a couple of track days. quite good fun, but been there got the T-shirt back to road cars.
deciding what car to get before driving on track is wrong simply because track driving is different to road driving.
Best advice: hire a few cars at track first to better understand. It's not too expensive to hire MX5s, Caterhams and prepped BMWs.
However, having gone to see the Lotus cars, it seems that what I really want is the Ferrari experience - both on the road and on track for my fun car. And cars from other brands are unlikely to replicate that. So my conclusion is that I'll be best off sticking with the F430 and using the money to make it work for me on track days - so getting insurance and a quieter DB exhaust if possible.
That being said, I take onboard what you are saying and maybe it would be a good idea to try out a Caterham for example on a track to see if I would enjoy it more. I expect that just because of my preferences and how I like to drive (I'm certainly no racing driver, just out to enjoy the car) the Ferrari is going to be the best choice as I love the cars. But still worth a try, so when I see a Caterham available at a track day I will give it a go in the next month or two just to be sure.
sealtt said:
Well I did a track day in my F430 Spider before and I loved it. I also did some time on track (a half hour at Castle Combe) in a borrowed 458 Spider which was even better, but too expensive. So I do like this style of car, though from a practical side of things - risk of totalling an expensive piece of metal, UK track sound limits, etc - I wanted to investigate slightly cheaper alternatives.
However, having gone to see the Lotus cars, it seems that what I really want is the Ferrari experience - both on the road and on track for my fun car. And cars from other brands are unlikely to replicate that. So my conclusion is that I'll be best off sticking with the F430 and using the money to make it work for me on track days - so getting insurance and a quieter DB exhaust if possible.
That being said, I take onboard what you are saying and maybe it would be a good idea to try out a Caterham for example on a track to see if I would enjoy it more. I expect that just because of my preferences and how I like to drive (I'm certainly no racing driver, just out to enjoy the car) the Ferrari is going to be the best choice as I love the cars. But still worth a try, so when I see a Caterham available at a track day I will give it a go in the next month or two just to be sure.
quite true... you did say you'd been on track. "my bad" as Hamilton would say.However, having gone to see the Lotus cars, it seems that what I really want is the Ferrari experience - both on the road and on track for my fun car. And cars from other brands are unlikely to replicate that. So my conclusion is that I'll be best off sticking with the F430 and using the money to make it work for me on track days - so getting insurance and a quieter DB exhaust if possible.
That being said, I take onboard what you are saying and maybe it would be a good idea to try out a Caterham for example on a track to see if I would enjoy it more. I expect that just because of my preferences and how I like to drive (I'm certainly no racing driver, just out to enjoy the car) the Ferrari is going to be the best choice as I love the cars. But still worth a try, so when I see a Caterham available at a track day I will give it a go in the next month or two just to be sure.
i would say that the joy of a cheaper & lighter track car is that, without electronics helping, you can feel the car more and will cost a lot less to run. Running costs need to include the risk of real damage too. Track cars are felt by many to be more fun overall than supercars on track, even by those who can afford either. Free me from financial constraints i personally would still compromise my comfort getting there, or even better, transport something track focused there. Even better than that, arrive & drive where you just rock up and go.
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