Starting to do track days - some questions/advice needed
Discussion
I've been offered a free car (Alfa 75 2.0 Twin Spark), and I'm thinking of just using it for track days, i.e. not taxing/insuring it etc. (I already have several fun cars which are road legal).
To start I'd probably just strip out a lot of the interior and give it a go. I sell agricultural machinery, so I've got a fully-equipped mobile workshop in a Fiat Ducato van, and a car trailer to move it about.
I have a couple of questions if some kind soul could give advice.
Can I do basic track days with a car like that? (i.e. no tax/MOT etc.) Obviously I will be making sure that the car is mechanically sound, but how can a track day organiser check this?
Do I need third-party insurance? (can you get insurance just for track days?) Not worried about the car itself - I can repair/throw it away, and I've got very good access to Alfa parts.
Also any suggestions for good tracks for beginners? Preferably in southern England - I'm actually based in Belgium, but I also have a house in Wiltshire (quite close to Castle Combe) so that could be an option.
Thanks in advance!
To start I'd probably just strip out a lot of the interior and give it a go. I sell agricultural machinery, so I've got a fully-equipped mobile workshop in a Fiat Ducato van, and a car trailer to move it about.
I have a couple of questions if some kind soul could give advice.
Can I do basic track days with a car like that? (i.e. no tax/MOT etc.) Obviously I will be making sure that the car is mechanically sound, but how can a track day organiser check this?
Do I need third-party insurance? (can you get insurance just for track days?) Not worried about the car itself - I can repair/throw it away, and I've got very good access to Alfa parts.
Also any suggestions for good tracks for beginners? Preferably in southern England - I'm actually based in Belgium, but I also have a house in Wiltshire (quite close to Castle Combe) so that could be an option.
Thanks in advance!
You will sign a disclaimer saying the car is "roadworthy" and there is no track day organiser checks aside of sound testing.
You don't need third party insurance as that is for road risks & you talk of trailering the car there.
Tracks in your area I cannot comment on as I am nowhere near, someone will be along soon to help on that one.
ONE PREPARATION POINT THAT I CANNOT STRESS HIGHLY ENOUGH IS NEW DISCS, GOOD QUALITY FAST-ROAD/TRACK BASED PADS AND RACING BRAKE FLUID.
If you don't, you MAY seriously regret it.
You don't need third party insurance as that is for road risks & you talk of trailering the car there.
Tracks in your area I cannot comment on as I am nowhere near, someone will be along soon to help on that one.
ONE PREPARATION POINT THAT I CANNOT STRESS HIGHLY ENOUGH IS NEW DISCS, GOOD QUALITY FAST-ROAD/TRACK BASED PADS AND RACING BRAKE FLUID.
If you don't, you MAY seriously regret it.
The car needs an MOT - for your own protection. If you kill someone, a judge & jury are going to want to see proof that the car was roadworthy - an MOT puts that responsibility straight onto the ministry.
We (and other) organisers insist on having a MOT - some organisers do not.
Jonny
BaT
We (and other) organisers insist on having a MOT - some organisers do not.
Jonny
BaT
andyiley said:
You will sign a disclaimer saying the car is "roadworthy" and there is no track day organiser checks aside of sound testing.
You don't need third party insurance as that is for road risks & you talk of trailering the car there.
Tracks in your area I cannot comment on as I am nowhere near, someone will be along soon to help on that one.
ONE PREPARATION POINT THAT I CANNOT STRESS HIGHLY ENOUGH IS NEW DISCS, GOOD QUALITY FAST-ROAD/TRACK BASED PADS AND RACING BRAKE FLUID.
If you don't, you MAY seriously regret it.
Your advice in bold, whilst well intentioned, is seriously incomplete and in some respects bad advice.You don't need third party insurance as that is for road risks & you talk of trailering the car there.
Tracks in your area I cannot comment on as I am nowhere near, someone will be along soon to help on that one.
ONE PREPARATION POINT THAT I CANNOT STRESS HIGHLY ENOUGH IS NEW DISCS, GOOD QUALITY FAST-ROAD/TRACK BASED PADS AND RACING BRAKE FLUID.
If you don't, you MAY seriously regret it.
New discs can be damaged by the high temps track use can generate, they should ideally be conditioned before using on track.
What do you mean by "racing brake fluid"? Most fluids described thus are DOT 5 or DOT 5.1, did you advise the OP of the precautions needed in changing to a DOT 5 from glycol-based fluid? No, you didn't. (BTW, some DOT 4 fluids have boiling points as high as DOT 5.1s minimum specification)
If you are going to offer advice, please make it complete, otherwise the OP "MAY seriously regret it".
Thanks for the replies so far!
I will check with our local keuring (MOT) centre whether it's possible to carry out a technical control on a car which isn't registered.
Regarding brakes/fluid - I'm used to swapping discs/pads and fluid, plus the kind of fun cars I have rely on carrying speed into corners and not too much braking - I don't have huge amounts of horsepower to play with!
I will check with our local keuring (MOT) centre whether it's possible to carry out a technical control on a car which isn't registered.
Regarding brakes/fluid - I'm used to swapping discs/pads and fluid, plus the kind of fun cars I have rely on carrying speed into corners and not too much braking - I don't have huge amounts of horsepower to play with!
sunbeam alpine said:
I will check with our local keuring (MOT) centre whether it's possible to carry out a technical control on a car which isn't registered.
Personally, I would pay the £30 or whatever and get the peice of paper which says it passes on the important safety bits, even if they fail it for lights/numberplates whatever.In reality - the TDO's don't scrutineer the cars anyway, so it's only if it turns up on a trailer looking like a scrap-yard snotter that you could get turned away.
Jonny
BaT
ALL trackday organisers that ive either booked in with or read about do not need an mot but must be roadworthy condition. Tbh apart from rockingham track day I attended ive never had a sound test carries out at either llandow or pembrey.
Brakes are the most important thing followed by tyres a good service is a good idea too. Everything else can be changed when you feel the need too.
In the south you have brands hatch and lyden hill down in kent, then thurxton and goodwood down in Hampshire next along is castle combe.
Further north you then have Silverstone/Bedford/Mallory park/rockingham/ in one part then further up again is cadwell/blyton park/donnighton/oulton park.
Plenty of tracks to visit.
Brakes are the most important thing followed by tyres a good service is a good idea too. Everything else can be changed when you feel the need too.
In the south you have brands hatch and lyden hill down in kent, then thurxton and goodwood down in Hampshire next along is castle combe.
Further north you then have Silverstone/Bedford/Mallory park/rockingham/ in one part then further up again is cadwell/blyton park/donnighton/oulton park.
Plenty of tracks to visit.
Overall good advice and I would say start each day slow and don't get annoyed when you get overtaken by 'lesser' cars. I always try to get 20 mins instruction at tracks I haven't driven before. Usually it's a few quid but occasionally free such as at Castle Combe first time i visited.
It is worth it's weight in gold, really.
When I say 'lesser' it is only a perception thing some people have. You could be in a 'fast' Aston but be lapped by a well prepped Citroen AX ... it's irrelevent to me though.
It is worth it's weight in gold, really.
When I say 'lesser' it is only a perception thing some people have. You could be in a 'fast' Aston but be lapped by a well prepped Citroen AX ... it's irrelevent to me though.
If you are based in Belgium you have some ace tracks on your doorstep- Spa,Zandvoort, Nurburgring, Zolder isn't top notch like the last 3 but better than Combe & v easy to access in Belgium,plus a whole host of French & Germany locations.
It's usually a lot lot easier & cheaper to register & MOT a track car in UK than EU. You won't easily get a road legal caged track car legal in Belgium, half cage is less grief.
It's usually a lot lot easier & cheaper to register & MOT a track car in UK than EU. You won't easily get a road legal caged track car legal in Belgium, half cage is less grief.
iguana said:
If you are based in Belgium you have some ace tracks on your doorstep- Spa,Zandvoort, Nurburgring, Zolder isn't top notch like the last 3 but better than Combe & v easy to access in Belgium,plus a whole host of French & Germany locations.
It's usually a lot lot easier & cheaper to register & MOT a track car in UK than EU. You won't easily get a road legal caged track car legal in Belgium, half cage is less grief.
Thanks for your reply. It's usually a lot lot easier & cheaper to register & MOT a track car in UK than EU. You won't easily get a road legal caged track car legal in Belgium, half cage is less grief.
You may have misunderstood the meaning of my post - I don't want to register the car. What I would like to do is strip it out and trailer it to track days. What I don't want to do is turn up and end up in some specialised class with people who know what they're doing - I don't want to get in their way! If I get the taste for it I can always spend some money on improving it later.
This doesn't mean I want to turn up with a wreck and drive like a loony. I have a well-equipped garage and can make sure that the car is both safe and mechanically sound.
I already have 10 cars on the road, including 5 classic Alfas, at least 2 of which would be ideal for track use - a 1973 Bertone 1750 GTV and a 1993 155 Q4, which was made for circuit driving. The 155 was tha Alfa Romeo France press car, which had less than 20,000 km when I bought it 2 years ago, and which I use enthusiastically, but sparingly. I don't want to subject them to track use as I'd hate to break them!
Regarding tracks over here, I drove round Zandvoort a couple of years back as part of the Alfa Romeo 100 year celebration - more of a procession than at speed. The Spa website doesn't seem to offer many open days (unless I'm missing something), and the Nurburgring doesn't seem to me the place to start! (Certainly given the threads on here regarding possible costs of an accident!). I'd forgotten about Zolder - will take a look.
The UK seems to have a lot more in terms of organised track day activity (and I'm British, and have several places in Southern England I can use as a base), so I thought it might be a better place to start.
Are there any websites I should be looking at?
Edited by sunbeam alpine on Monday 20th July 09:44
DocJock said:
What do you mean by "racing brake fluid"? Most fluids described thus are DOT 5 or DOT 5.1, did you advise the OP of the precautions needed in changing to a DOT 5 from glycol-based fluid? No, you didn't. (BTW, some DOT 4 fluids have boiling points as high as DOT 5.1s minimum specification)
Interesting how two different people interpret things differently,I read the suggestion and immediatly thought of Carbon Lorraine ( significantly highter boiling point than DOT5.1 Minimum specs) or RBF 600.
DOT 5.1 didn't entre my head.
DocJock said:
New discs can be damaged by the high temps track use can generate, they should ideally be conditioned before using on track.
What do you mean by "racing brake fluid"? Most fluids described thus are DOT 5 or DOT 5.1, did you advise the OP of the precautions needed in changing to a DOT 5 from glycol-based fluid? No, you didn't. (BTW, some DOT 4 fluids have boiling points as high as DOT 5.1s minimum specification)
If you are going to offer advice, please make it complete, otherwise the OP "MAY seriously regret it".
Yes you are right, but as the OP is only in the early stages, I just decided to get the ball rolling with some advice, so here goes.What do you mean by "racing brake fluid"? Most fluids described thus are DOT 5 or DOT 5.1, did you advise the OP of the precautions needed in changing to a DOT 5 from glycol-based fluid? No, you didn't. (BTW, some DOT 4 fluids have boiling points as high as DOT 5.1s minimum specification)
If you are going to offer advice, please make it complete, otherwise the OP "MAY seriously regret it".
Ignore what was said above about new discs, use the oldest, crappiest, rustiest ones you can find in your local scrappy!
I never mentioned Dot 5 I think you will find! I use dot 4, (whilst I am sure there are some dot5 RBFs around) I have personally never come across one, I add that I have never looked as I only want & need dot4.
Don't make assumptions.
Spa has plenty of public evening sessions plus quite a few track days.Go onton the official site and look for "events" or calendar, all the info you need will be there.
But do have an instructor on board, as with one you could learn the layout in around eight laps.Building your speed gradually.Have fun .
But do have an instructor on board, as with one you could learn the layout in around eight laps.Building your speed gradually.Have fun .
I used to race Alfas and the 75 makes a good track car with a bit of prep plus gives you some interesting rear drive dynamics.
Many track days have race cars such as radicals so there is no requirement for the car to be road legal etc of most, although there may be some exceptions. If the car looks ropey or is leaking then you are likely to be pulled aside, but if well prepared then it should be fine.
General good service is the main prep you need. However, most road cars suffer with the brakes on track, so upgrading the pads and cooling is your best bet. Some simple ducting from the front on to the front discs will make a massive difference and cost little. Decent high temp pads and brake fluid will also improve performance and avoid brake fade.
Once you get a taste you can then start upgrading the car with suspension, and engine mods etc. Have a look at the 75 twin spark race cars on the web, there should be a few around still, and some of the specialists could advise on the mods they would recommend for these that would work well on a track day car. In the old AROC championship they used to run under class E if you do a web search.
Many track days have race cars such as radicals so there is no requirement for the car to be road legal etc of most, although there may be some exceptions. If the car looks ropey or is leaking then you are likely to be pulled aside, but if well prepared then it should be fine.
General good service is the main prep you need. However, most road cars suffer with the brakes on track, so upgrading the pads and cooling is your best bet. Some simple ducting from the front on to the front discs will make a massive difference and cost little. Decent high temp pads and brake fluid will also improve performance and avoid brake fade.
Once you get a taste you can then start upgrading the car with suspension, and engine mods etc. Have a look at the 75 twin spark race cars on the web, there should be a few around still, and some of the specialists could advise on the mods they would recommend for these that would work well on a track day car. In the old AROC championship they used to run under class E if you do a web search.
With regards to what track days are on and where: http://www.trackdays.co.uk/calendar/cars/
In the south of England I believe we've got Motor Sport Events, BookaTrack and Javelin track days. There are probably more, but thats the ones I know off the top of my head.
Hope that helps
In the south of England I believe we've got Motor Sport Events, BookaTrack and Javelin track days. There are probably more, but thats the ones I know off the top of my head.
Hope that helps
Thanks for all the replies!
To update the thread -
1. The free car was in a much worse state than I expected (big surprise!) so that's a non-starter.
2. I've found a good-looking track-prepared 75 for a very reasonable price. Has a cage, fire extinguisher system, harnesses, kill switch outside etc.
3. It's impossible to MOT the car in Belgium, but the car is in immaculate condition, prepared by a specialist garage. I note that some track days require thus, but in practice, how much would this limit the track days I could do?
To update the thread -
1. The free car was in a much worse state than I expected (big surprise!) so that's a non-starter.
2. I've found a good-looking track-prepared 75 for a very reasonable price. Has a cage, fire extinguisher system, harnesses, kill switch outside etc.
3. It's impossible to MOT the car in Belgium, but the car is in immaculate condition, prepared by a specialist garage. I note that some track days require thus, but in practice, how much would this limit the track days I could do?
MG CHRIS said:
Javelin is one of the best in the uk wide variety of tracks throughout the year.
I would second that, and at the same time I would dispute the advice given about MOT's, have you ever seen a race car having an Mot??? Has anyone ever been asked if their trailered car had a valid Mot??Edited by ginettajoe on Friday 31st July 23:40
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