Plonker at Cadwell

[ginettajoe]

TuxMan said:

You pay your money you takes your choice !!! I've done Javelin days that are littered with red flags through the day , last time I went to cadwel with them they had 7 red flags before lunch !!!

Nowadays I use bookatrack or Goldtrack only , not cheap but you do not get idiots in there MG who have no idea .

Feel for the guy in the lotus :-(

I have been on trackdays organised by other TDO's that have just as many red flags, and stoppages including some you mention!! It is the luck of the draw, and I've been on Javelin days where there hasn't been a single stoppage, unlike some of the more expensive days!!!

[QBee]

ginettajoe said:

TuxMan said:

You pay your money you takes your choice !!! I've done Javelin days that are littered with red flags through the day , last time I went to cadwel with them they had 7 red flags before lunch !!!

Nowadays I use bookatrack or Goldtrack only , not cheap but you do not get idiots in there MG who have no idea .

Feel for the guy in the lotus :-(

I have been on trackdays organised by other TDO's that have just as many red flags, and stoppages including some you mention!! It is the luck of the draw, and I've been on Javelin days where there hasn't been a single stoppage, unlike some of the more expensive days!!!

On the plonker day I think we only had either two or three, one for the Plonker, one for a rolling 2CV, which brought lunch forward by 15 minutes, and I kinda remember one other, cannot remember what for. I have been to many Javelin days and have had days with many red flags and days with none. Depends on the quality of plonkers on the day, and people's luck with brake downs etc.
I even caused one myself at Mallory Park a couple of months ago by sticking my car in the gravel trap rather than the barrier, but they just brought lunch forward by 15 minutes.
It happens, even to driving gods like you and me.....

[boxsey]

T0MMY said:

All are relatively rare though...I did a Javelin day this week and didn't see any prattishness at all. Everyone was moving over when needed or not hassling to get past when wanting to overtake.

I used Javelin for the first time last week at Oulton Park. I can only remember one yellow flag while I was out on track. Great behaviour from everyone taking part. So, all good in my experience.

[gruffalo]

boxsey said:

T0MMY said:

All are relatively rare though...I did a Javelin day this week and didn't see any prattishness at all. Everyone was moving over when needed or not hassling to get past when wanting to overtake.

I used Javelin for the first time last week at Oulton Park. I can only remember one yellow flag while I was out on track. Great behaviour from everyone taking part. So, all good in my experience.

Like wise.

[DMN]

gruffalo said:

boxsey said:

T0MMY said:

All are relatively rare though...I did a Javelin day this week and didn't see any prattishness at all. Everyone was moving over when needed or not hassling to get past when wanting to overtake.

I used Javelin for the first time last week at Oulton Park. I can only remember one yellow flag while I was out on track. Great behaviour from everyone taking part. So, all good in my experience.

Like wise.

I've had mixed experiences with them. I did one at Cadwell a year ago that was littered with Red Flags, I've done some this year at Blyton and Elvington that have been fine.

It seems, to me, that its the track not the TDO thats causing the issues. Are people taking on Cadwell before they are ready for it?

[SpudLink]

DMN said:

I've had mixed experiences with them. I did one at Cadwell a year ago that was littered with Red Flags, I've done some this year at Blyton and Elvington that have been fine.

It seems, to me, that its the track not the TDO thats causing the issues. Are people taking on Cadwell before they are ready for it?

I'm too much of a novice to contribute meaningfully, but have been following this thread with interest.

My first ever trackday was at Cadwell, on a motorbike. I would agree that I was not yet ready. That was in the days before YouTube so there was no chance to watch onboard footage in advance.

I've got four trackdays booked in the next few weeks, including Cadwell. I've had a little bit of coaching from instructors at Silverstone and Porsche, and I'm doing my homework before each circuit so that I have at least some idea which corner is which. However the only way to get experience is.... to get more experience.

It will be my first time on track in this car, so I'll be driving within my own limits, which are far below the capabilities of the car. To me this is the right approach. But inevitably I'll be seen by some as someone driving too slowly and probably shouldn't even be on track.

I guess the question is how to arrange trackdays so that the novice does not hinder the fast and experienced drivers, as well as protecting everyone from the plonkers.

[QBee]

There are novice track days, and sessioned track days, if you want to follow that plan, but TBH I don't mind slower cars on track so long as the drivers watch their mirrors and keep to the correct side to be overtaken. Simples. My last day at Cadwell was Plonker-day, but I quite enjoyed the driving of the 2CV owner, who watched his mirrors and got out of the way.

I much prefer that to the BMW M4 driver i came across at Snetterton earlier in the year.
Brand new car, driver had attended the drivers' briefing, but forgot to bring his ears with him.
We had all been told about overtaking, and letting cars that were faster in the corners past.
We had all been told about staying to the right of the blend line on coming out of the pits.

But Pillock decided to dive straight out of the pits and straight across to the racing line for the first corner.
No use of mirrors, no consideration for the race Mini and me coming up to the corner at 125mph.
He missed the Mini by about 10 feet, the Mini driver used all his race craft to brake hard and avoid Pillock while overtaking him.
I had a little more time and managed to slow enough to enable me to follow him through the corner.
Pillock them proceeded to drive all the corners really slowly, with me right up his chuff and gaining a slipstream, only then to ps off down the straights with his M power.
Next corner I caught him again, repeat endlessly.
I gave up in the end and dropped back.

[Dakkon]

From personal experience I would say MSV have had the most incidents, I was there when kebab GTR driver took out the McLaren MP4-12C, and Lotus on Track being one of the better organisers, fewest incidents.

[DMN]

SpudLink said:

It will be my first time on track in this car, so I'll be driving within my own limits, which are far below the capabilities of the car. To me this is the right approach. But inevitably I'll be seen by some as someone driving too slowly and probably shouldn't even be on track.

As far as I can see, you're approaching it in the right way. The red flags where not caused by driving too slow, but by over driving. It was wet and damp for the first part of the day and it seemed some drove it like a dry track.

[Fastdruid]

From watching the video of the car behind I'm not so certain he didn't brake until last thing or that it was intentional.

From the video of the following driver it looks more like the LHS brake light doesn't work and you can't make out the centre or RHS until last minute. In fact although very hard to tell for sure it looks like he "braked" at the 10s mark (on the following video) and then went straight on (and it should be noted that he wasn't even attempting to stay on track, he totally crossed onto the grass on the inside of the corner) and it appears (to me anyway) from the internal video that he's going for the handbrake.

[MyVTECGoesBwaaah]

I still think he looks left at the spectators when he should have been braking, cue evasive manoeuvre. We will never know for sure though, only he will and I doubt that information will become public

[Mrs Muttleysnoop]

It would to good to know which insurers cover car to car contact on track. The likes of Richard Egger etc do not.

20 years ago the track driving standards were so much better. I was a member of Club 89 and any plonkers were dealt with properly and sent home.

I really do wish race teams would do test days and leave us normal people to our track days. The last track day I did there were only 3 cars that were not race cars and the race teams were timing.

Roger Williams (Club 89) still says to this day that to mix race cars and road cars on track is a recipe for disaster.


ETA OH just checked our policy no mention re car to car contact on track. One company we used a while ago did not cover for car to car contact so check your policy.

Edited by Mrs Muttleysnoop on Sunday 13th September 19:12

[QBee]

I have not been doing track days as long as you, but have not had any issues with race teams in 30 track days. My only issues have been with people who ignore, or don't listen to, the briefing.

Yes, race cars can appear in your mirrors very suddenly, and being overtaken by a GT4 Aston was quite an experience. The hardest to spot coming are the low Radical type cars. Most do very few laps in my experience, as they are there to sort out running issues with their cars, and learn the track prior to qualifying.

On the insurance front, in my limited experience track day cover tends to be an add-on you have to request. I have it through a broker called ClassicLine. My road cover is with Equity Red Star, and I assume my track cover is too. It covers up to 90% of the value of my car and nothing else on track.

[Chr1sch]

Out of interest I assume cover for car to car contact just protects your own vehicle to a degree?

I.e there is little point for older/cheaper track vehicles?

[anonymous-user]

Chr1sch said:

Out of interest I assume cover for car to car contact just protects your own vehicle to a degree?

I.e there is little point for older/cheaper track vehicles?

If you're not bothered about your own car, don't bother with insurance.

[gruffalo]

Big crash at Brands yesterday that brought an early end to everyone's fun.

A team was testing and managed to barrel roll the car over the barriers at Paddock hill.

Guy in the pit said it was a shame as he was in his hottest lap so far.

This would imply timing which is a no no. Fortunately only the one car involved.

Testing and track days do not mix well in my book.

[Robert Elise]

gruffalo said:

Testing and track days do not mix well in my book.

It would help if tracks themselves enforced the rules. TDOs are too dependent on the ££ from testing.

[gruffalo]

Robert Elise said:

gruffalo said:

Testing and track days do not mix well in my book.

It would help if tracks themselves enforced the rules. TDOs are too dependent on the ££ from testing.

In this case the TDO was the track owners being MSV!

[HustleRussell]

gruffalo said:

A team was testing and managed to barrel roll the car over the barriers at Paddock hill.

Guy in the pit said it was a shame as he was in his hottest lap so far.

Half of the start / finish straight and they've already declared it 'his hottest lap'?

[Robert Elise]

gruffalo said:

Robert Elise said:

gruffalo said:

Testing and track days do not mix well in my book.

It would help if tracks themselves enforced the rules. TDOs are too dependent on the ££ from testing.

In this case the TDO was the track owners being MSV!

fair point!
MSV are often considered the worst, maybe unfairly as they have the obvious marketing pull being track owners and are first point of call.
They're also a bigger corporate entity than any TDO and so should be more easily able to enforce rules and stick to principles, ie not beholden to attendance fees of one or two people.

Then again, track days aren't all that bad....