Which TD tyres best in the wet?
Discussion
None of the above, shagged R888
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erw-2XTZSBA
...but actually I'd recommend the R1R.
Good effort!Recommendation needs to be car specific IMHO or rather, it depends a lot what you drive SonicShadow..
IMHO (and that's all it is, despite having had an MX5 on track), BECAUSE it is light and low powered, it doesn't work the tyre as hard, and hence doesn't eat 'road' tyres on track like something heavy/powerful would (e.g. the boxster which I also tracked). For the MX5 there's relatively little penalty in running a more 'treaded' tyre in the dry. Equally, because it is light, it 'needs' a treaded tyre more in the wet. Personally I'd also suggest there's more fun to be had with a little less stick and more motion in the dry, and more predictability in the wet.
For the OP's scenario, I would absolutely take a 'performance' road tyre every time, and NOT a 'road legal track tyre'. But as usual, YMMV.
IMHO (and that's all it is, despite having had an MX5 on track), BECAUSE it is light and low powered, it doesn't work the tyre as hard, and hence doesn't eat 'road' tyres on track like something heavy/powerful would (e.g. the boxster which I also tracked). For the MX5 there's relatively little penalty in running a more 'treaded' tyre in the dry. Equally, because it is light, it 'needs' a treaded tyre more in the wet. Personally I'd also suggest there's more fun to be had with a little less stick and more motion in the dry, and more predictability in the wet.
For the OP's scenario, I would absolutely take a 'performance' road tyre every time, and NOT a 'road legal track tyre'. But as usual, YMMV.
Worth bearing in mind that AD08 seem to have a much wider profile and contact patch than other tyres of the exact same size. That could be good or bad depending on whether you have issues with space and fouling bodywork etc.
The photo is not very good, it's much more obvious in real life
The photo is not very good, it's much more obvious in real life
Edited by ukkid35 on Saturday 19th December 08:57
On that basis I would go with Toyo 888s, I have used them in wet and dry conditions and find them very good in both, I have run faster tyres in the dry and in the wet but as an all rounder thats what I have run in the past on a lightweight caterham and on my current 850kg Honda race car. problem with the likes of your Rain tyres in the dry and hot days they will be hopeless and miles off the pace you will set with something like an 888. where as in the wet the toyos will surprise you just how much grip they have and how quick you can go on them !
Synchromesh said:
I probably didn't explain myself very well. I need a tyre that's good in the dry too. Rather than have to have two sets of wheels/tyres, I want a tyre that's as good in the wet as it is in the dry, even if it isn't the outright best in either scenario.
I've currently got Uniroyal Rainexperts on, which at a wet track day on Sunday I overtook 20 cars in as many minutes while not getting overtake once, and I'm not even a particularly good driver! However, I've heard bad things about Uniroyals on dry TDs, like that they overheat and go off (e.g. they were recently criticised in the CarThrottle MX-5 video).
Let me put it another way. When I take the MX5 to the Nurburgring in April I won't have space for a second set of tyres. When I went last April it was pretty torrential, but its so unpredictable there that I didn't know it would be when I left home. So my tyre choice needs to cope as well on if its hot and sunny as if its cold and wet.
I've currently got Uniroyal Rainexperts on, which at a wet track day on Sunday I overtook 20 cars in as many minutes while not getting overtake once, and I'm not even a particularly good driver! However, I've heard bad things about Uniroyals on dry TDs, like that they overheat and go off (e.g. they were recently criticised in the CarThrottle MX-5 video).
Let me put it another way. When I take the MX5 to the Nurburgring in April I won't have space for a second set of tyres. When I went last April it was pretty torrential, but its so unpredictable there that I didn't know it would be when I left home. So my tyre choice needs to cope as well on if its hot and sunny as if its cold and wet.
Had AD08s previously on a light (700 kg) car, overheated them in one hot/dry trackday - they weren't very grippy after that, although they were excellent for that one day. AD08Rs might be better but TBH I think you're better off getting a second set of wheels.
Have found Goodyear Eagle F1s great on my boxster in the wet, and not bad in the dry, not the last word in dry grip though obviously.
Have found Goodyear Eagle F1s great on my boxster in the wet, and not bad in the dry, not the last word in dry grip though obviously.
JeffC said:
On that basis I would go with Toyo 888s, I have used them in wet and dry conditions and find them very good in both, I have run faster tyres in the dry and in the wet but as an all rounder thats what I have run in the past on a lightweight caterham and on my current 850kg Honda race car. problem with the likes of your Rain tyres in the dry and hot days they will be hopeless and miles off the pace you will set with something like an 888. where as in the wet the toyos will surprise you just how much grip they have and how quick you can go on them !
If it's merely damp then R888 will certainly have more grip than all the stuff proposed so far, its a good bit softer.That said, as soon as there is an surface water or puddles they are a disaster. The OP is planning 'ring trips, a place that even light rain will generate standing water and the last place in the world you want to be vulnerable to aquaplaning.
Definitely want a more conventional tread pattern, hence R1R over R888.
SpeedyDave said:
JeffC said:
On that basis I would go with Toyo 888s, I have used them in wet and dry conditions and find them very good in both, I have run faster tyres in the dry and in the wet but as an all rounder thats what I have run in the past on a lightweight caterham and on my current 850kg Honda race car. problem with the likes of your Rain tyres in the dry and hot days they will be hopeless and miles off the pace you will set with something like an 888. where as in the wet the toyos will surprise you just how much grip they have and how quick you can go on them !
If it's merely damp then R888 will certainly have more grip than all the stuff proposed so far, its a good bit softer.That said, as soon as there is an surface water or puddles they are a disaster. The OP is planning 'ring trips, a place that even light rain will generate standing water and the last place in the world you want to be vulnerable to aquaplaning.
Definitely want a more conventional tread pattern, hence R1R over R888.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPEJ86lyM2M
Synchro - my choice from your list would be ad08R.
However that said I'd follow advice on this thread and use a high performance road tyre through the wet months on your mx5. Mx5 wears ad08R's at a glacial rate in summer which would make me think they might not get sticky in winter.
Key thing for me in winter is being able to stop and I really don't think ad08r or similar will be as good as a road tyre in sopping wet/really cold. I've used Toyo T1Rs / Goodyear eagle f1's right through winter both have been a laugh on track plus added bonus being good for the journey to and from track days (assume you don't use trailer?)
However that said I'd follow advice on this thread and use a high performance road tyre through the wet months on your mx5. Mx5 wears ad08R's at a glacial rate in summer which would make me think they might not get sticky in winter.
Key thing for me in winter is being able to stop and I really don't think ad08r or similar will be as good as a road tyre in sopping wet/really cold. I've used Toyo T1Rs / Goodyear eagle f1's right through winter both have been a laugh on track plus added bonus being good for the journey to and from track days (assume you don't use trailer?)
I tried R888s at a Castle Combe sprint in monsoon conditions (lots of standing water), and it was a fairly terrifying experience. Put the road contis back on the fiesta and was over 10 secs a lap quicker straightaway.
Tried the R888s in midly moist conditions at Goodwood and they were impressive, but I wouldn't be using them if there was hint of a puddle.
Tried the R888s in midly moist conditions at Goodwood and they were impressive, but I wouldn't be using them if there was hint of a puddle.
I run the r888 on my 325i track car that weights 1000kg's and they are great in the dry and pretty grippy when you get a bit of water, but in heavy conditions it's certainly an exercise in restraint.
A tyre I really rate and ran on a much heavier car was the continental sport contact 3's on a track day at silverstone in monsoon conditions my 330i e90 was utterly planted. Likewise after a half day around goodwood on a very hot summer day they showed almost no wear. I got 30,000 miles out of these tyres and completed 3 track days on them. They are not a track tyre, but are superb, really progressive wet and dry and won every tyre review going. If it was me that's what I would choose.
Failing that on your selection check out the wet weather rating of each tyre on openeo or tyre leader and pick the one closest to A.
A tyre I really rate and ran on a much heavier car was the continental sport contact 3's on a track day at silverstone in monsoon conditions my 330i e90 was utterly planted. Likewise after a half day around goodwood on a very hot summer day they showed almost no wear. I got 30,000 miles out of these tyres and completed 3 track days on them. They are not a track tyre, but are superb, really progressive wet and dry and won every tyre review going. If it was me that's what I would choose.
Failing that on your selection check out the wet weather rating of each tyre on openeo or tyre leader and pick the one closest to A.
+1 here for the AD08R. I run them year round on my Alfa which chewed up a previously fitted set of R1Rs in no time on a trip to the Ring. I've had R888s on the car too and found them too harsh and noisy on the road and the wet road grip was nowhere near as good as the AD08R or R1R. Great in the dry when you're on it though.
And +1 for the Yokohama AD08R
Having used the Toyo R1R and Yokohama AD08R extensively on road & track on my MINI in everything from hot & dry to soaking wet & cold conditions, the Yokos are now my tyre of choice for an all year round, all weather / all purpose road / track use tyre, and they cope superbly with anything the great British weather throws at you.
Both are great all round track & road tyres having significantly more grip than regular tyres, with the AD08R slightly bettering the R1R in the soaking wet, ime.
Fwiw, I did my own comparison test of the R1R's vs my regular Michelins on my MINI at Bedford Autodrome in the dry on the short West circuit which Evo magazine use, and the R1R's were 2secs a lap faster over that short 1.7 mile track - over a second a mile quicker from the tyres alone.
The Yokos are just as quick as the Toyos, but seem to last a bit longer, although the R1R is now also available in a harder compound, which I've not tried yet. Friends running Federal RSRs seem to struggle a bit in the same wet conditions where the AD08Rs have no issues whatsoever.
Normally, I switch back to the "A" wet-rated Michelins over the winter months, but this winter, I've stayed on the "B" wet-rated Yokohama AD08R, and they are performing really well in cold & wet soaking conditions that would make a pure trackday tyre aquaplane. HTH
Having used the Toyo R1R and Yokohama AD08R extensively on road & track on my MINI in everything from hot & dry to soaking wet & cold conditions, the Yokos are now my tyre of choice for an all year round, all weather / all purpose road / track use tyre, and they cope superbly with anything the great British weather throws at you.
Both are great all round track & road tyres having significantly more grip than regular tyres, with the AD08R slightly bettering the R1R in the soaking wet, ime.
Fwiw, I did my own comparison test of the R1R's vs my regular Michelins on my MINI at Bedford Autodrome in the dry on the short West circuit which Evo magazine use, and the R1R's were 2secs a lap faster over that short 1.7 mile track - over a second a mile quicker from the tyres alone.
The Yokos are just as quick as the Toyos, but seem to last a bit longer, although the R1R is now also available in a harder compound, which I've not tried yet. Friends running Federal RSRs seem to struggle a bit in the same wet conditions where the AD08Rs have no issues whatsoever.
Normally, I switch back to the "A" wet-rated Michelins over the winter months, but this winter, I've stayed on the "B" wet-rated Yokohama AD08R, and they are performing really well in cold & wet soaking conditions that would make a pure trackday tyre aquaplane. HTH
Glad I found this post and forum when I googled this. I went to the ring in 2011. This was what I used there.
Car: Jaguar X Type 3.0 V6 SE automatic
Tyres: Pirelli P Zero Asymmetric
We went out once in the wet and its a good job I know how to counter steer at least.
With no indication the car was about to do it, whatsoever, we ended up spinning 360 on the exit of Aremberg.
Then on the same lap or a slightly drier one? The car went sideways and I counter steered to save it. We ended up at 90 degrees with the tow bar grounded out on the apex curb, on entry to a positive camber left hander in the final 3/4 of the circuit. Im just glad I didn't put the car into a wall as we saw someone else unfortunately had there. I do want to go back to the ring again but only with the right set up.
After reading up the comments and seeing that Goodyear Eagle f1 is recommended and that it is an asymmetric tyre, Im wondering if;
Our tyres were too hard a compound compared to the Goodyear
or
An automatic isn't smooth enough at delivering power due to no clutch control. Our Jaguar and my friends 330i are pretty much foot down nothing, pause, everything.
or
Something else?
I've driven a racing kart and found that slippery in the wet but still manageable, unless you start going crazy.
Car: Jaguar X Type 3.0 V6 SE automatic
Tyres: Pirelli P Zero Asymmetric
We went out once in the wet and its a good job I know how to counter steer at least.
With no indication the car was about to do it, whatsoever, we ended up spinning 360 on the exit of Aremberg.
Then on the same lap or a slightly drier one? The car went sideways and I counter steered to save it. We ended up at 90 degrees with the tow bar grounded out on the apex curb, on entry to a positive camber left hander in the final 3/4 of the circuit. Im just glad I didn't put the car into a wall as we saw someone else unfortunately had there. I do want to go back to the ring again but only with the right set up.
After reading up the comments and seeing that Goodyear Eagle f1 is recommended and that it is an asymmetric tyre, Im wondering if;
Our tyres were too hard a compound compared to the Goodyear
or
An automatic isn't smooth enough at delivering power due to no clutch control. Our Jaguar and my friends 330i are pretty much foot down nothing, pause, everything.
or
Something else?
I've driven a racing kart and found that slippery in the wet but still manageable, unless you start going crazy.
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