Lotus or VX220

[chutley]

Appreciate some feedback from anybody out there who runs a VX220 or a Lotus Elise / 340 / Exige as a track only car?

What needs to be done to make it/them handle on track? What is the minimum BHP to give lively performance? What are the running costs like - tyres/pads/servicing etc?

Currently running an MK Indy BEC but considering changing to one of the above - windscreen and Targa/Convertible roof allows wet use. Open Top/aeroscreen BEC 7s are great, but the weather is so often against them. But would miss the lively performance and don't want to go to a car that doesn't excite.

Appreciate honest feedback from owners / ex-owners.

[Shnozz]

Budget?

Also depends on what sort of tracks. Short and windy a base Elise would do the job. Anything with lengthy straights and I would want more poke. Yes, many might say you can't "win" a trackday and the chaps in the Elise trophy pedal a 118bhp car quicker than I probably could a 200bhp car, but I always felt my first Elise was a bit pedestrian between the bends on the longer circuits.

I haven't drive a VX to judge but have had mixed reports and the an NA car fitted with a supercharger is often touted as being the better concept.

A 220+ SC Exige would be fine also, but many are more coveted with prices going North than being chucked around a circuit.

Personally I would either look for:-

1. A Katana'ed Elise/Exige that has circa 240bhp but gets little premium over a standard 189bhp car due to it being non-factory (my old one was such)

2. A Honda or Audi'ed Elise/Exige.

Budget dependent but there is a cracking S1 Exige with a Honda in the back for sale at the minute. That would be awesome on track and they come up very very infrequently so could be just the ticket.

Wayne's (of Proalloy) fantastic Audi'ed S1 Elige is also for sale at the minute for about £35k and is an absolute beast with, IIRC, about 400bhp. I have been in that car around Abberville and it was incredible.

[james_gt3rs]

I track my VX220 (2.2) regularly, and also drive it every day on the road.

For track, it needs the wider Exige sized front wheels (£500) and a geo otherwise it understeers too much. The engine seems bulletproof apart from the timing chain (get it done, then it will last 10 years). Mine consumes oil on track so you need to watch the level carefully. There's not really any NA tuning you can do, the only option is a £3000 supercharger which will give you 250bhp.

For a track only car there are many options to upgrade, e.g. suspension (£1000?), brakes (£500), tyres (£500) and you'll have a pretty good track car that is driveable on the road and will keep you dry.

[AshVX220]

I've done 13 trackdays in my VX. It's a completely standard NA, with the exception of braided lines and Mintex pads.

I guess it depends how hard you drive it, because mine is my pride and joy I change gear early at 5k (redline is 5.7k), I don't leave the braking to the last minute either. I think I've probably done 8 TD's on the current brake pads and 10 on the current tyres.

I have the standard skinny front tyres and to be honest once I let a bit of air out the understeer is minimal at the pace I drive.

As the others have said you can Mod the VX quite a lot and get an awful lot of power out of it. I guess it depends on what you want to achieve on track.

[Potatoes]

It's becoming a VX220 heavy discussion and I'm sure some Elise/Exige owners will show up to balance the thread out for you OP... but another VX owner here!

My VX is an N/A and has been said, to get major power gains with this engine you need to supercharge (I've been driven in one, it's AWESOME!). The car is standard apart from the following:

• Piper exhaust system
• ECU Remap
• 16" front/17" rear Team Dynamic 1.2 wheels
• Federal RSR rubber
• Quantum Single suspension
• AP 4-pot(front) brakes
• Mintex pads
• Redtop racing battery

My experience is that it's quite a bit faster than many standard or lightly modded Elise/Exiges I've done track days. It's super capable in corners and is great around small circuits (it was also A LOT of fun around Spa last summer) but as soon as I come across a supercharged or Stage 2+ turbo in a VX or Elise/Exige it feels very slow!

I went with the N/A VX over and Elise or VX Turbo as I have no plans on tuning the engine. For me it is all about the capability of these little cars (Elise/Exige/VX) around circuits which I don't think has been matched by many other cars on the market... at least not by any cars that come with a roof.

I can see myself supercharging it one day though.

[Altrezia]

Either are cool, but the Elise will probably be lighter. Last trackday I did was in a bog standard 118bhp S1 Elise at Silverstone on the GP circuit, and it was running rings around a lot of 'faster' machinery. Awesome cars.

(vid here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KWIOARzlV0 )

I'm sure I'm biased, but I'd go for the Lotus every time.

[Potatoes]

Altrezia said:

Either are cool, but the Elise will probably be lighter. Last trackday I did was in a bog standard 118bhp S1 Elise at Silverstone on the GP circuit, and it was running rings around a lot of 'faster' machinery. Awesome cars.

(vid here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KWIOARzlV0 )

I'm sure I'm biased, but I'd go for the Lotus every time.

Weights can be found here:

http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Elise_weight

[chutley]

Budget will be around £15k, but this has to include any of the upgrades I may initially want to do. But that will also depend a little on what I can sell my MK Indy for.

I think I need to try something first - I come from a bike background and like the open cockpit (in the dry...) as it heightens feeling of speed and you don't get hot. I got bored very quickly in a tin roof Clio Cup as although it was fast for that type of car, it felt a little dull. I don't think many cars accelerate like a BEC Cater-field - mine has a ZZR1400 engine and a better driver than me would show its tailpipe to some very expensive cars.


Anybody moved that way - from Caterham type to a Lotus?

[Roberty]

I've owned both and would pick the Elise over the VX.

I absolutely loved my Elise, did several track days, used as my daily, never let me down and other than the aerobics getting in and out always put a smile on my face.

The VX however was a huge disappointment, I thought it would be a slightly more powerful, Quirky looking Elise but it didn't live up to the Elise at all. It obviously shares the same Access, Egress gymnastics as the Elise and does have a far superior roof to the Elise (Series1 anyway) but that was about it.

The car disappointed constantly, failed me at two track days due to ignition pack issues and yes I replaced it between the two track days.

Handling was not as Sharp as the Elise, forum experts put that down to the 17" alloys all round and some swap to a 16" front, 17" rear wheel combo to combat this, couldn't comment on whether that puts the two cars back on a parr.

If you do research on The VX220 you'll hear about bodywork issues, namely osmosis and sadly mine was affected by this too. Had to have both doors stripped, cured and repainted. Two colleagues also had VX220's, an N/A and a turbo, both were also affected by Osmosis.

But that was just my experience and maybe I just unlucky and bought a ropey VX.

[Altrezia]

Roberty said:

If you do research on The VX220 you'll hear about bodywork issues, namely osmosis and sadly mine was affected by this too. Had to have both doors stripped, cured and repainted. Two colleagues also had VX220's, an N/A and a turbo, both were also affected by Osmosis.

To be fair, anything that falls out of Hethel seems to have this issue!

[mozzerS]

I picked up my ex-Elise Trophy S1 Elise well within your budget. K-Series, 150bhp at the hubs with spare set of wheels, full cage, Quantum dampers, hardtop, etc. Around 830kg with me in it.
Your surplus budget would have covered the extras I needed - set of ZZRs (that last and work really well), new exhaust (it was way over the limit), bigger ARB (well worth it), Geo set-up and a bodywork refresh.
CL RC5 pads have lasted very well - check out somewhere like eliseparts.com or elise-shop.com for prices of stuff.
I haven't driven a VX but absolutely love the Elise. Sure, you could use more grunt on the straights at Snetterton but just use that time for a quick breather before you're diving back into the corners

[Roberty]

Altrezia said:

Roberty said:

If you do research on The VX220 you'll hear about bodywork issues, namely osmosis and sadly mine was affected by this too. Had to have both doors stripped, cured and repainted. Two colleagues also had VX220's, an N/A and a turbo, both were also affected by Osmosis.

To be fair, anything that falls out of Hethel seems to have this issue!

You may well be right but my Elise had no such issues and I had never heard of this problem until the bodywork on my VX220 started blistering.

I' ve known 2 other VX's which were owned by colleagues and they too had the very same issue, one was particularly bad. A number of friends and colleagues have or have had Elise's over the years and I've not heard of or seen this issue on any of their cars.

From what I heard the issue relates to the bodywork production that wasn't at Lotus but Sotiria in France, allegedly the VX bodies were not cured properly and stored outside.

That said I believe the Elise bodies were also built by the same company so why or if this affects one and not the other I do not know!

[mozzerS]

Altrezia said:

Either are cool, but the Elise will probably be lighter. Last trackday I did was in a bog standard 118bhp S1 Elise at Silverstone on the GP circuit, and it was running rings around a lot of 'faster' machinery. Awesome cars.

(vid here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KWIOARzlV0 )

I'm sure I'm biased, but I'd go for the Lotus every time.

+1
Nice video too.
Is this you? Photo

Edit: I can't get the photo to load here and the link goes to the album but Yellow #47 ?

Edited by mozzerS on Tuesday 26th April 21:59

Edited by mozzerS on Tuesday 26th April 22:00

[otolith]

My Elise has suffered paint blistering - had it fixed, but there's a problem with it and it needs to go back.

[Roberty]

otolith said:

My Elise has suffered paint blistering - had it fixed, but there's a problem with it and it needs to go back.

Ah crap so the Elise does suffer too!

When I got my blistering done I was told it would only be a matter of time before it came back!

[48k]

Altrezia said:

Either are cool, but the Elise will probably be lighter. Last trackday I did was in a bog standard 118bhp S1 Elise at Silverstone on the GP circuit, and it was running rings around a lot of 'faster' machinery. Awesome cars.

(vid here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KWIOARzlV0 )

I'm sure I'm biased, but I'd go for the Lotus every time.

That video shows a good example of how underpowered the S1 Elise can be on the 'wrong' circuit for it. It's only the Elise's advantages in the corners and under braking which allowed it to catch up with a Ford Focus - and that in itself took almost a whole lap - it just doesn't have the power. I did Silverstone and Spa in my S1 and whilst it's great to have ticked those boxes, neither are circuits which play to the cars strengths.

OP the honest answer is you will struggle to get the equivalent lively performance and handling to your MK Indy BEC in an Elise/VX220 package. Two different drivetrain layouts and weight distribution, and of course the latter are more compromised towards being road cars. The closest within your budget IMHO would be something with a Honda engine conversion or an ex race car. (Though if you go race car route, have it noise tested before you buy it - you don't want to buy a new toy then find it's too loud for trackdays).

Also since you mentioned it's a track only car, I assume you'd be trailering it to trackdays? If your currently use a trailer for your tracktoy check that it is wide enough for an Elise/VX220.

[gruffalo]

otolith said:

My Elise has suffered paint blistering - had it fixed, but there's a problem with it and it needs to go back.

Do you keep it index a cover?

Fibre glass cars don't like having covers on then it causes micro blistering.

Just a thought.

[otolith]

No, no cover. In recent years I have used a shower cap to keep the rain out and that little ginger cat's hairs off the roof (poor little sod gets kicked out in all weathers, I haven't the heart to chase her off) but that does not cover the paintwork.

[james_gt3rs]

Altrezia said:

Either are cool, but the Elise will probably be lighter. Last trackday I did was in a bog standard 118bhp S1 Elise at Silverstone on the GP circuit, and it was running rings around a lot of 'faster' machinery. Awesome cars.

(vid here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KWIOARzlV0 )

I'm sure I'm biased, but I'd go for the Lotus every time.

Nice! A VX220 2.2 lap for comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJp2h1tqXEQ

[AshVX220]

I've had my VX for 10.5 years now and not had a single major problem with it (touches wood).

The body work is fine, never blistered. The only things that has ever let me down are;
EGR valve stuck not long after I bought it, took it off, cleaned it put it back and no problem's since.
The head light's stopped working, that turned out to be a blown switch (solenoid? Can't think of the name now), that's now sorted too. Other than that it's just the draining batteries on a car that gets rare use over winter.

For a completely standard car it's faultless really. Yes it runs out of puff on long straights (eg the long back straight at Bedford I'm doing 120mph before hitting the brakes), but it comes alive in the corners. Through corners I've kept up with a 996 no problem (that may be a difference in driver though, not that I'm a driving God, the other guy may have just been a bit worse than me! ).

When you do your next track day try and get pax laps in each if possible and go from there. For your budget you could get a VX that has already been SC'd and had other track focussed Mods done. Or you could get an Elise that's had a few Mods done too I expect.

Not trying to sway you one way or the other, just giving my experience.