Factory standard road car that's good on track?
Discussion
upsidedownmark said:
If the MX5 was hardly any slower, you were doing something very very wrong in the boxster I do agree that it's a heap of fun, and probably the best value for money going though.
(I tracked a 12k 986 S for 2 years, no financial ruin..)
ETA - not having actually driven one, I'd agree on the RX8, have considered that route myself.
Look in my garage and read about my boxster S..... IN MY OPINION from owning one it was a fat, heavy, slow, poorly built POS, no internet hearsay! But en I probably drive very different from you .Furyblade_Lee said:
Tracking a £5k Boxster S will probobly lead to financial RUIN!!!
Care to back that up with some cold hard facts, or just 'cos you read somewhere on the internet once that the IMS might go pop?(I tracked a 12k 986 S for 2 years, no financial ruin..)
ETA - not having actually driven one, I'd agree on the RX8, have considered that route myself.
Edited by upsidedownmark on Tuesday 21st June 16:19
Fair enough. Given the BEC / kit car focus I can certainly understand the fat / slow angle I agree it's a little heavy, but not really that porky for a production road car - which is what the OP is looking for.
The rest I'd contend.. but it sounds like we had rather different ownership experiences. Driving style, who knows. I found it liked to be (track) driven fairly neatly rather than bouncing off the lock stops.
The rest I'd contend.. but it sounds like we had rather different ownership experiences. Driving style, who knows. I found it liked to be (track) driven fairly neatly rather than bouncing off the lock stops.
The OP also asked for a car not to expensive to run, from memory I paid £500 for TWO "n" rated tyres,
I am pleased for you if you managed two years of Trackdays with no issues in. Boxster S, but had I tried that I am pretty sure I'd have done at least £2,000 in tyres in those two years alone, let alone several sets of brake pads.
But it depends how you drive it I suppose. But I stand by if anyone drives any 911 / 986 properly on track , not just pooling around ( which is fine if that's what you want ) then you will end up with huge bills compared to some other cars. And if they blow up or break , and a £5k Porsche be definition will be a leggy one with fairly worn suspension bushes, dampers etc. then it is a HUGE risk ragging one around a race track.And they are not actually that fast anyway.
I am pleased for you if you managed two years of Trackdays with no issues in. Boxster S, but had I tried that I am pretty sure I'd have done at least £2,000 in tyres in those two years alone, let alone several sets of brake pads.
But it depends how you drive it I suppose. But I stand by if anyone drives any 911 / 986 properly on track , not just pooling around ( which is fine if that's what you want ) then you will end up with huge bills compared to some other cars. And if they blow up or break , and a £5k Porsche be definition will be a leggy one with fairly worn suspension bushes, dampers etc. then it is a HUGE risk ragging one around a race track.And they are not actually that fast anyway.
There we expose a few differences, and a few prejudices.
N rated tyres, why? Non-N ones with appropriate speed ratings are considerably cheaper, entirely legal and appropriate ('because porsche' nonsense) Rears (the expensive end): goodyear eagle 140 each fitted. The fronts last forever. Anyway, 2 sets of tyres in 2 years isn't what I'd call ruinous - sure, an mx5 will be cheaper, I paid 50 quid each for tyres for that.
The old 'leggy, tired' (OMG, it's more than a couple of years old) argument. Its no more leggy and tired than any other similarly aged car, nor is it a 'bad idea', pure prejudice IMHO. I still don't get the *risk*: so the suspension bushes may be worn.. OMG!! if they're a problem, replace the damn things, same as anything else.
For reference, ?3 years ago I sold a (then) 11 year old S, tidy, fresh discs and pads, FULL service history dealer/reputable indy etc, just under 90k miles - just over 6k. If you think that's a nail, you're entitled to your opinion, but it isn't.
Big bills compared to a kit car perhaps.. compared to an MX5 (for example) yes.. compared to a roadgoing production car of similar performance.. not so much. They're a *bit* more expensive, but not crazy expensive as you seem to have found. Discs were about 60 quid each, pads 55 for an axle set, and so on. By far your biggest cost on those trackdays would be fuel!
Ah, because I liked it, I must potter around like miss daisy?
ETA: Another angle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4
Chris Harris - "A used Cayman, which as we all know is one of the great bargins of our time" (and a cayman is pretty much a tin-topped boxster, albeit a 987)
N rated tyres, why? Non-N ones with appropriate speed ratings are considerably cheaper, entirely legal and appropriate ('because porsche' nonsense) Rears (the expensive end): goodyear eagle 140 each fitted. The fronts last forever. Anyway, 2 sets of tyres in 2 years isn't what I'd call ruinous - sure, an mx5 will be cheaper, I paid 50 quid each for tyres for that.
The old 'leggy, tired' (OMG, it's more than a couple of years old) argument. Its no more leggy and tired than any other similarly aged car, nor is it a 'bad idea', pure prejudice IMHO. I still don't get the *risk*: so the suspension bushes may be worn.. OMG!! if they're a problem, replace the damn things, same as anything else.
For reference, ?3 years ago I sold a (then) 11 year old S, tidy, fresh discs and pads, FULL service history dealer/reputable indy etc, just under 90k miles - just over 6k. If you think that's a nail, you're entitled to your opinion, but it isn't.
Big bills compared to a kit car perhaps.. compared to an MX5 (for example) yes.. compared to a roadgoing production car of similar performance.. not so much. They're a *bit* more expensive, but not crazy expensive as you seem to have found. Discs were about 60 quid each, pads 55 for an axle set, and so on. By far your biggest cost on those trackdays would be fuel!
Ah, because I liked it, I must potter around like miss daisy?
ETA: Another angle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUhLXvxlQR4
Chris Harris - "A used Cayman, which as we all know is one of the great bargins of our time" (and a cayman is pretty much a tin-topped boxster, albeit a 987)
Edited by upsidedownmark on Wednesday 22 June 10:15
986S is a great road/track car - with a few provisos
1. m030 suspension (or similar) & proper geo
2. fit a bucket seat
3. keep on top of the maintenance jobs
4. baffled sump (probably)
So it's a £5k car with a healthy maintenance budget
I used mine (with 1,2,3 above) for a year while my track car was having a new engine. I was very impressed how well it went for a standard road car. Great at Cadwell, Spa, Donington, Curborough.. On my track wheels with AD08's tyre wear was limited. On road tyres (Falken 453's) I think I used 3-4mm rear tread in one day at Snetterton.
DC2 is a good option - not a great road car IMO, but a great track car.
I'll take Neil's word on the Megane - but they are so ugly!
1. m030 suspension (or similar) & proper geo
2. fit a bucket seat
3. keep on top of the maintenance jobs
4. baffled sump (probably)
So it's a £5k car with a healthy maintenance budget
I used mine (with 1,2,3 above) for a year while my track car was having a new engine. I was very impressed how well it went for a standard road car. Great at Cadwell, Spa, Donington, Curborough.. On my track wheels with AD08's tyre wear was limited. On road tyres (Falken 453's) I think I used 3-4mm rear tread in one day at Snetterton.
DC2 is a good option - not a great road car IMO, but a great track car.
I'll take Neil's word on the Megane - but they are so ugly!
Huge thanks for all of the replies - I hope you nobody minds if I don't thank you all individually.
Great reading through the Boxter blog. It's so easy to be scared off a boxer because of all the IMS failures reported but very good to see some balance. I did some research into the rate of failures and it does seem to only affect about 5ish % - a great pistonsheads thread where owners can vote on if their cars have failed.
An integra would be great but nothing in budget with less than 100k miles.
Same for the s2000.
I keep coming back to the Megane, for around 5k there doesn't seem to be much that'd be as good on track in standard form.
A Clio would also be good but comes the without and LSD. Brakes would be good but much less power and only about 100kg lighter than the Megane.
If I was looking at MX5's which ones would be best to go for?
Great reading through the Boxter blog. It's so easy to be scared off a boxer because of all the IMS failures reported but very good to see some balance. I did some research into the rate of failures and it does seem to only affect about 5ish % - a great pistonsheads thread where owners can vote on if their cars have failed.
An integra would be great but nothing in budget with less than 100k miles.
Same for the s2000.
I keep coming back to the Megane, for around 5k there doesn't seem to be much that'd be as good on track in standard form.
A Clio would also be good but comes the without and LSD. Brakes would be good but much less power and only about 100kg lighter than the Megane.
If I was looking at MX5's which ones would be best to go for?
The Mx5 debate could go on....
A long time....!!!!
The only dealings I have had with a Megan was when a guy turned up in a turbo Megan to a sprint at the air base in Debden. Bloody hell it set some quick times and was up with the GT3 Porsches, on a bumpy twisty layout. No idea what state of tune it was , or version, but it flew.
A long time....!!!!
The only dealings I have had with a Megan was when a guy turned up in a turbo Megan to a sprint at the air base in Debden. Bloody hell it set some quick times and was up with the GT3 Porsches, on a bumpy twisty layout. No idea what state of tune it was , or version, but it flew.
If you want an MX5 for Trackdays and have a 5k budget there are plenty of turbo / supercharged cars out there for that money. Some upto 250bhp. But it can be a minefield of crap coilovers and dodgy Fast & The Furious bodywork!
But a properly sorted MX5 is a hoot to drive. My dream spec would be Mk1 1.8 Eunos with the std. Torsten LSD , a TR Lane roll hoop, Meister R suspension and around 200bhp of linear supercharged power. And stock looking as much as possible.
But saying that too this year I am trying to win outright our 1600cc Sprint / Hillclimb championship in a boggo standard 1.6 Eunos ( withLSD ) on the cheap while funds go to restoring my VW camper. But I can honestly say so far I am loving it, driving it 10/10ths absolutely everywhere and ringing it's neck in the competitions. It is pretty unbreakable too. For an inexperienced Trackday goer I would reccomend it, proper RWD fun. But pounding round a big circuit too often when used to it you will probobly crave more power, not going to like to you.
As someone else said, maybe an S2000? Get as much weight out of it as you can and it will probobly deliver a similar hit of fun at a pace which won't leave you constantly looking in your mirrors.
But a properly sorted MX5 is a hoot to drive. My dream spec would be Mk1 1.8 Eunos with the std. Torsten LSD , a TR Lane roll hoop, Meister R suspension and around 200bhp of linear supercharged power. And stock looking as much as possible.
But saying that too this year I am trying to win outright our 1600cc Sprint / Hillclimb championship in a boggo standard 1.6 Eunos ( withLSD ) on the cheap while funds go to restoring my VW camper. But I can honestly say so far I am loving it, driving it 10/10ths absolutely everywhere and ringing it's neck in the competitions. It is pretty unbreakable too. For an inexperienced Trackday goer I would reccomend it, proper RWD fun. But pounding round a big circuit too often when used to it you will probobly crave more power, not going to like to you.
As someone else said, maybe an S2000? Get as much weight out of it as you can and it will probobly deliver a similar hit of fun at a pace which won't leave you constantly looking in your mirrors.
upsidedownmark said:
If the MX5 was hardly any slower, you were doing something very very wrong in the boxster
Doing it? No I'd already done it! Spent a bit of dosh on it and as a result was st scared to rag it as much as something cheaper.Although I must admit that every time I took it over 5k I thought to myself "I'm glad I had that IMS done."
Furyblade_Lee said:
If you want an MX5 for Trackdays and have a 5k budget there are plenty of turbo / supercharged cars out there for that money. Some upto 250bhp. But it can be a minefield of crap coilovers and dodgy Fast & The Furious bodywork!
But a properly sorted MX5 is a hoot to drive. My dream spec would be Mk1 1.8 Eunos with the std. Torsten LSD , a TR Lane roll hoop, Meister R suspension and around 200bhp of linear supercharged power. And stock looking as much as possible.
But saying that too this year I am trying to win outright our 1600cc Sprint / Hillclimb championship in a boggo standard 1.6 Eunos ( withLSD ) on the cheap while funds go to restoring my VW camper. But I can honestly say so far I am loving it, driving it 10/10ths absolutely everywhere and ringing it's neck in the competitions. It is pretty unbreakable too. For an inexperienced Trackday goer I would reccomend it, proper RWD fun. But pounding round a big circuit too often when used to it you will probobly crave more power, not going to like to you.
As someone else said, maybe an S2000? Get as much weight out of it as you can and it will probobly deliver a similar hit of fun at a pace which won't leave you constantly looking in your mirrors.
Many thanks for this - very useful. Yeah I think I would crave more power and probably end up modifying it which is something I really don't want to do - I already have a track car that I spend far too much on! But a properly sorted MX5 is a hoot to drive. My dream spec would be Mk1 1.8 Eunos with the std. Torsten LSD , a TR Lane roll hoop, Meister R suspension and around 200bhp of linear supercharged power. And stock looking as much as possible.
But saying that too this year I am trying to win outright our 1600cc Sprint / Hillclimb championship in a boggo standard 1.6 Eunos ( withLSD ) on the cheap while funds go to restoring my VW camper. But I can honestly say so far I am loving it, driving it 10/10ths absolutely everywhere and ringing it's neck in the competitions. It is pretty unbreakable too. For an inexperienced Trackday goer I would reccomend it, proper RWD fun. But pounding round a big circuit too often when used to it you will probobly crave more power, not going to like to you.
As someone else said, maybe an S2000? Get as much weight out of it as you can and it will probobly deliver a similar hit of fun at a pace which won't leave you constantly looking in your mirrors.
I've done literally hundreds of track days, a few sprints but am a good enough driver to know I'll never be any good lol! I do absolutely love it though
I'm a huge fan of the s2000 but they're too expensive. I'd really prefer something with a roof and a bit more practical too.
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