Shared trackday cars - Logistics?

Shared trackday cars - Logistics?

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Discussion

C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

103 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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So, I'm approaching this as a complete novice, and would be grateful of the benefit of PH's collective experience. Thanks in advance!

Two close friends and I (three in total) are planning to buy a car to get out on track together. For the time-being, its primary goal is being a bit of a collective project (excuse to hang out and get mucky) and a bit of light-hearted weekend fun. We've known each other long enough and the value is sufficiently low that there will not be any major issues with the financial or ownership side of things (e.g. "you owe me £50 for that XXX"). It will simply be a case of buying a car, gutting the interior, servicing and doing some light upgrades (brakes, tyres), then driving the pants off it.
If it breaks, we replace it. If we really love it, we buy a better car next year.

What is a bit of a leap into the unknown is how the actual process of getting on track works between three people. In an ideal world, we'd all have our own cars to track - in practice, none of us individually has the time/energy/space to make it happen.
Are TDOs happy for three of us to share a car during a day? Does this work out practically? Are some TDOs more cost-effective or flexible in this regard? Are there enough tracks/airfields in range of Central London to make it worth our while? Are passenger rides normally permitted?

Are there any other learnings from those who have done the sharing thing already that might be worth knowing?

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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You will have to have each driver registered as a driver, attend the safety briefing and pay the fees, these vary from TDO to TDO and you'll pay them when booking the day.

Having a passenger in the car is no issue at all as long as they're registered as either a driver or passenger and have a helmet plus legs and arms covered.

james_gt3rs

4,816 posts

190 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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With 3 people, either the car will take a beating due to no breaks for it, or you'll all get less track time if you let the brakes etc cool.

C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

103 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
james_gt3rs said:
With 3 people, either the car will take a beating due to no breaks for it, or you'll all get less track time if you let the brakes etc cool.
Thanks for the input. To be honest, this isn't an exercise in maximising track time. It's more about getting out together and having a bit of a cheap giggle. If we each get an hour on track in the course of a day, I'd say that was money well spent.

daniel-5zjw7

598 posts

100 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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Yes as above you'll just have to pay for each driver.. however somewhere in the back of my head I'm thinking some TDO's only accept max two drivers per car? May be wrong on this.

Otherwise personally I think the idea is workable, and on a full day all three of you would have enough track time to enjoy it, however it would be very hard on the car, as apart from at lunchtimes I expect with three people you'd pretty much be circulating all day. So choosing a reliable car and prepping it well/looking after it on the day would be important

I think the biggest issue I can see putting myself in your position is just how difficult it can be to agree dates between all three of you, especially given that many trackdays through the summer are on weekdays requiring days off work etc. You'd all need to be equally committed to it otherwise I can imagine life/other interests/holidays/reluctance to eat in to annual leave etc getting in the way when it actually comes down to it.

C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

103 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
daniel-5zjw7 said:
Yes as above you'll just have to pay for each driver.. however somewhere in the back of my head I'm thinking some TDO's only accept max two drivers per car? May be wrong on this.

Otherwise personally I think the idea is workable, and on a full day all three of you would have enough track time to enjoy it, however it would be very hard on the car, as apart from at lunchtimes I expect with three people you'd pretty much be circulating all day. So choosing a reliable car and prepping it well/looking after it on the day would be important

I think the biggest issue I can see putting myself in your position is just how difficult it can be to agree dates between all three of you, especially given that many trackdays through the summer are on weekdays requiring days off work etc. You'd all need to be equally committed to it otherwise I can imagine life/other interests/holidays/reluctance to eat in to annual leave etc getting in the way when it actually comes down to it.
Cheers for the reply. The maximum drivers thing had concerned me too. I can't recall where I read it, but it sticks in my mind.

Time-wise, we'd probably only be getting out 8-10 times a year in it, as we've all got hectic jobs and families. We wouldn't necessarily need to be picky about which track either, as it's just a case of going out and having fun.

daniel-5zjw7

598 posts

100 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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ps. Central London isn't too bad with a little travel, you could look at Marham and Woodbridge airfield days, Lydden hill and Brands are close-ish, and the likes of Rockingham, Snetterton, Silverstone, Bedford, Thruxton etc are all within a 2 hour drive.

Plus with how cheap you can get hotel rooms these days you could always go up the night before for venues further afield, which may add to the enjoyment factor!

sjg

7,444 posts

264 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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Do you want to remain friends with these people? If so, split the rental of a BaT Caterham with them a few times a year instead.

If none of you have "time/energy/space" for your own cars, who's going to take it home between days? Who's going to maintain it, either DIY, or taking it off to someone else to do the work? If someone crashes it, do you split the damage bill? If someone overrevs it and blows up an engine, do you split that too? If someone gets busy and can only make half the days, are they covering their third of everything?

If you must - think through all the ways this could wrong, and agree up front how you'll deal with them.

gbk

110 posts

234 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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sjg said:
Do you want to remain friends with these people? If so, split the rental of a BaT Caterham with them a few times a year instead.

If none of you have "time/energy/space" for your own cars, who's going to take it home between days? Who's going to maintain it, either DIY, or taking it off to someone else to do the work? If someone crashes it, do you split the damage bill? If someone overrevs it and blows up an engine, do you split that too? If someone gets busy and can only make half the days, are they covering their third of everything?

If you must - think through all the ways this could wrong, and agree up front how you'll deal with them.
This is really good advice.

C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

103 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
sjg said:
Do you want to remain friends with these people? If so, split the rental of a BaT Caterham with them a few times a year instead.

If none of you have "time/energy/space" for your own cars, who's going to take it home between days? Who's going to maintain it, either DIY, or taking it off to someone else to do the work? If someone crashes it, do you split the damage bill? If someone overrevs it and blows up an engine, do you split that too? If someone gets busy and can only make half the days, are they covering their third of everything?

If you must - think through all the ways this could wrong, and agree up front how you'll deal with them.
Haha. Thanks for the reality check, but it's absolutely fine. I did try to pre-empt this with my first post, but I assumed someone would say it. We've been friends through far more stressful and difficult things than sharing a car that gets used a few times a year!

The point of entry cost (£500 each) is deliberately low, and shared, such that we can walk away without being out of pocket too badly (no more than a nice meal) the event that it all goes badly wrong.

Appreciate the concern, but it's really not worth worrying about.

sjg

7,444 posts

264 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
So you'd walk away from your £500 share of the car with no hard feelings if your mate drove like an idiot and crashed it before you even had a go? Or you'd put in another £500 for a new car and try again?

Everyone loves the idea of paying a fraction of the purchase and running costs of a track car, and turning up to drive it. No-one wants to be the virtual "owner" who has to store it, drive a stripped out car to and from the track, and deal with the tedious stuff like maintenance in between trackdays.

I'm not saying it can't work, just figure this stuff out up front so you all have the same expectations.

Personally I'd work out some figures for what you realistically expect a year to cost (car, tyres/brakes, trackday fees, insurance, petrol, etc), with some healthy contingency. Divide that by three and all stick that into the pot. Agree that at the end of the year you'll sell up and split what's left - and then you can figure out if you want a better car or want out. It'll mean fewer surprises, no need to divide every last bill and no awkwardness if someone pulls out of a day as their money is already in.

C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

103 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
sjg said:
So you'd walk away from your £500 share of the car with no hard feelings if your mate drove like an idiot and crashed it before you even had a go? Or you'd put in another £500 for a new car and try again?
Absolutely. The latter, without hesitation or reservation.

We're talking about £500 for a ready-to-drive car, plus ongoing costs. I appreciate your 'concern', but you're making a mountain out of a molehill and dragging this thread away from the points I wanted some input on.

Thanks.

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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Aside from the already mentioned I don't see a problem with your plan. However be aware that adding two extra drivers will practically double the trackday cost with some operators.

Would I do it? No. I have invited a trusted friend to drive my car on trackdays and visa versa but I wouldn't attempt to share a car and associated costs equally with a friend or, worse, more than one friend because it'd be too difficult to control.

Trabi601

4,865 posts

94 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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I have a single word of advice for you.

Don't.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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Trabi601 said:
I have a single word of advice for you.

Don't.
Indeed. Sounds like a great way to lose two good friends.

smiles1

543 posts

221 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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C70R said:
If we each get an hour on track in the course of a day, I'd say that was money well spent.
The idea is definitely doable and I did it with a friend for over 3 years and we had a great time! Still friends at the end of it as well smile

Only thing I'd say is that with 3 of you it is very likely you will struggle to get an hour on track each. On average you will get about 8-9 sessions in throughout the day - even if you are less mechanically sympathetic at resting the car between sessions there will still be queuing (especially on 'cheaper' days) and no doubt a few red flags. With 2 of us we used to normally end up with 2 (15 minute) sessions each in a morning and similar (possilby rising to 3 each) in the afternoon. So split that between 3 of you and you are loking at maybe half an hour on track each.

Hope that helps.


MG CHRIS

9,077 posts

166 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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I wouldn't tbh I built a mev exocet mainly for road use but at the time and me being 19 getting it on the road would have been to expensive so 2 years later got into track days started at my local llandow circuit.

A mate from school got back in touch started helping out at track days following year I suggested if he wanted to to split the cost and both share. 2 its not to bad but it does put extra pressure on the car and uses more fuel. In the end we fell out over something different and tbh was the best thing that happened.

Looking back I shouldn't have done it the cost to me if he had crashed my car would have been high and other people do tend to change their mind when something else comes around.

I now just do it on my own with my father started going to tracks further away already done rockingham/blyton this year along with my local tracks castle combe and llandow. Rest of this year im running in a sprint series so going to track at croft/anglesy twice one for a track day to practice/woodbridge and snetterton so all new tracks and going back to pembrey in august.

As for cost its always more than what you think for a half decent track day looking easy £150 more if more drivers usually an extra £20 per driver so you be looking at over £200, fuel with 3 of you easy £100 of fuel just on track then there is getting there and back and if with 3 you are either stuck with 4 seater cars or tow car and trailer and additional cost. Add in food and consumbles on the car your looking at £300-400 per track day.

Toltec

7,159 posts

222 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
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Did it for several years, first with just two then we changed cars and added a third person, he drove less often, did not do any of the maintenance, but paid a third of the fixed running costs. The way we worked it was insurance, road tax, MOT and any none track wear maintenance costs were split equally, we agreed a monthly amount and set up standing orders. When we did a track day whoever used the car put a tyre, brake and general wear contribution in the kitty, that way it was fine if only one or two did the track day. Mainly it was the original two with the new guy coming with one of us or as a third, but there was the odd occasion when one of us might do an evening session on our own. To work out an amount just see how the tyres and brakes stand up over the first couple of days then use a figure that covers it plus a bit, nice to have a few quid extra in the kitty. We opened a joint bank account.

As for crashing the car, we trusted each other not to drive like idiots and if the car was totalled so be it. If you spanked it and it needed a few quid to put it right then the driver covered that up to say a third of the value of the car, pick your own figure, much above that and you are probably better breaking it anyway. Mechanical failures, blown engine, knackered gearbox etc. are all part of the track day fun, decide if it worth fixing or scrapping.

If one party wants out agree a fair price and buy them out or sell the car and split the money, splitting the kitty could be trickier, just think about it and agree a method.

Write something down about how you are going to split costs, maintenance work and storage (it was in my mates garage so he paid a bit less into the kitty each month), and how the car is disposed of. Not really a contract more just a way of talking out how to deal with things.

Have fun and stay friends.

Couple of extra things, mods and upgrades, talk and agree before spending. Tools you might buy, unless it is something really specific to the car make it a personal purchase so it belongs to one person and just try to spread the costs fairly. Unless one of you has a tool fetish and likes buying stuff...

JoeMarano

1,042 posts

99 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
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Wow things got put into perspective when you said a nice meal cost £500!

The last nice meal I had probably cost me £50!

C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

103 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
Christ on a bike. Why does PH love such a downer? Why do people who have no experience of it think I want their opinion on why it will be a disaster?

For those who bothered to read the first post, the decision is made - that's not up for debate, and I'm not looking for input there.
We three have enough going on in our lives that we aren't going to fall out over something as trivial as a cheap car and a few hundred quid.

If anyone is thinking of contributing, can you please please try to answer what I've asked in my first post.
How does it work with TDOs? Is it possible? Are all TDOs willing to let 3 drivers go? Are any circuits/TDOs more amenable than others?

C70R said:
We've known each other long enough and the value is sufficiently low that there will not be any major issues with the financial or ownership side of things
...
What is a bit of a leap into the unknown is how the actual process of getting on track works between three people.
and here comes the doom...
sjg said:
Do you want to remain friends with these people? If so, split the rental of a BaT Caterham with them a few times a year instead.
gbk said:
This is really good advice.
sjg said:
So you'd walk away from your £500 share of the car with no hard feelings if your mate drove like an idiot and crashed it before you even had a go? Or you'd put in another £500 for a new car and try again?
Trabi601 said:
I have a single word of advice for you.

Don't.
TooMany2cvs said:
Indeed. Sounds like a great way to lose two good friends.
MG CHRIS said:
I wouldn't tbh