Shared trackday cars - Logistics?

[C70R]

Black_S3 said:

On a french torsion barred hatch that cannot end well.

They weren't actually "Linglongs" (I didn't even know that was a brand until I just Googled it - I assumed it was a PH 'in joke' for cheap tyres!).
They aren't a mainstream brand (I can't actually remember off the top of my head), but the tyre chap who put our fronts on was reasonably complimentary about them - so we felt a little easier about running them.

In actual fact, that spin was the only time they put up significant protest in 40-odd laps on a sunny day - it was probably more a case of a mismatch, rather than the quality per se. I actually felt more confident on them than I have on Pirelli P6000s at road-legal speeds!

We'll be switching them for something stickier next time, but we were quite pleased with how they held up for a no-name brand.

[C70R]

carreauchompeur said:

Oh FFS get over yourselves. OP, sounds like a great laugh. Long may it last. If you don't mind, how much is your outlay so far?

I have always assumed that people come to places like PH to piss and moan, to help them relieve their day-to-day stresses. It's a bit tragic that people would only use this place to snipe (particularly when it's so repetitive), but it's a fact of life on the internet.

Total outlay thus far looks like:
- Car: £350
- Pair of used Toyo R1Rs: £100 + fitting
- Rear pads: £20 + fitting
- Mechanic's inspection: £60 (plus replacement CV gaiter - no idea on cost)

We certainly got lucky to bag a 'part-prepped' car for such a good deal.
In fact, in total so far (ignoring tax/insurance/petrol and the day out on track), my share of the car has cost less than I paid for dinner on Friday!

Edited by C70R on Monday 8th August 10:03

[towelie]

C70R said:

carreauchompeur said:

Oh FFS get over yourselves. OP, sounds like a great laugh. Long may it last. If you don't mind, how much is your outlay so far?

I have always assumed that people come to places like PH to piss and moan, to help them relieve their day-to-day stresses. It's a bit tragic that people would only use this place to snipe (particularly when it's so repetitive), but it's a fact of life on the internet.

Total outlay thus far looks like:
- Car: £350
- Pair of used Toyo R1Rs: £100 + fitting
- Rear pads: £20 + fitting
- Mechanic's inspection: £60 (plus replacement CV gaiter - no idea on cost)

We certainly got lucky to bag a 'part-prepped' car for such a good deal.
In fact, in total so far (ignoring tax/insurance/petrol and the day out on track), my share of the car has cost less than I paid for dinner on Friday!

Edited by C70R on Monday 8th August 10:03

You're getting ripped off for dinner in that case pal.

I'll keep this concise as there's too much fail to go into detail.

£100 for used r1rs, Jesus. Google federal 595rsr, great tyres and cheap. R1rs are practically rain tyres.

Pirelli p6000s are st tyres. Only good for doing big smokey burnouts in Beausejour.

£20 for rear brake pads. Oh lord.

That must be the slowest driven car to be ever seen on a track day.

I'm sorry I know you are now a pro racing driver after your first track day, so please feel free to ignore this post.
Although I know you'll reply with something along the lines "you're a chav", "I really miss all the burnouts at Le Mans, please teach me how to do one" etc, etc.

Ps did you choose Bedford due to the really low noise limits? I know how much you don't like the sound of cars and people having fun

[Black_S3]

C70R said:

Black_S3 said:

On a french torsion barred hatch that cannot end well.

They weren't actually "Linglongs" (I didn't even know that was a brand until I just Googled it - I assumed it was a PH 'in joke' for cheap tyres!).
They aren't a mainstream brand (I can't actually remember off the top of my head), but the tyre chap who put our fronts on was reasonably complimentary about them - so we felt a little easier about running them.

In actual fact, that spin was the only time they put up significant protest in 40-odd laps on a sunny day - it was probably more a case of a mismatch, rather than the quality per se. I actually felt more confident on them than I have on Pirelli P6000s at road-legal speeds!

We'll be switching them for something stickier next time, but we were quite pleased with how they held up for a no-name brand.

Exactly the miss match but probably fair to say the better feel is from the front R1Rs doubt you will get much feel from the rear tyres until they start to break away - which I imagine will be pretty sudden when it happens! I'd put money on your spin being lift off over steer... Most torsion barred french hatches of that era are notorious for it already, add in a lot less grip on the rear in a stripped out car where most the weight has come off the rear and I doubt many people would stand a chance catching it when it happens.

It's worth getting a set of rears to match the fronts. Gives you more scope to swap wheels about to even out the wear so to an extent will pay for itself.

Also, I think a lot of the 106 lot relocate the battery to centrally above the rear axle to restore the weight distribution? Nearly free to do, so might as well.

ETA what's your tyre size?

towelie said:

You're getting ripped off for dinner in that case pal.

I'll keep this concise as there's too much fail to go into detail.

£100 for used r1rs, Jesus. Google federal 595rsr, great tyres and cheap. R1rs are practically rain tyres.

Pirelli p6000s are st tyres. Only good for doing big smokey burnouts in Beausejour.

£20 for rear brake pads. Oh lord.

That must be the slowest driven car to be ever seen on a track day.

I'm sorry I know you are now a pro racing driver after your first track day, so please feel free to ignore this post.
Although I know you'll reply with something along the lines "you're a chav", "I really miss all the burnouts at Le Mans, please teach me how to do one" etc, etc.

Ps did you choose Bedford due to the really low noise limits? I know how much you don't like the sound of cars and people having fun

Do you have something against him?

Bedford is an excellent choice for a first day.

R1Rs are a pretty good choice for the setup - If you think they're a ''rain tyre'' you cant have driven on them in much more than drizzle. Adding too sticky a tyre will just highlight the limits of old standard parts/unknown suspension. Also for a trackday beginners any decent advice would be to avoid proper track tyres as you have to get heat in them and in general any mistakes will be at a higher speed with bigger consequences.... 4 T1Rs would be my recommendation for someone on their first few days in a 206 - It's not outright grip he needs, just a predictable break away.

I wouldn't be spending much more than 20 on rear pads for what he's explained - that is oem quality for his car.... In a 206 I doubt you could get enough heat into the rears using even a fairly mild pad like DS2500s before cooking the fronts - unless running a big money front setup, which he isn't.

As for the slowest car on a trackday, i bet you that record is held by someone at a supercar day.

Edited by Black_S3 on Monday 8th August 21:03

[C70R]

towelie said:

You're getting ripped off for dinner in that case pal.

Oh dear... Bless you.
Mrs C and I regularly enjoy eating out at nice restaurants, usually those with Michelin stars (or multiples thereof). In this scenario cost is almost always commensurate with quality - but I wouldn't have expected someone like you understand that. I'll be sure to let you know the next time we eat at a Harvester.

towelie said:

I'll keep this concise as there's too much fail to go into detail.

£100 for used r1rs, Jesus. Google federal 595rsr, great tyres and cheap. R1rs are practically rain tyres.

Pirelli p6000s are st tyres. Only good for doing big smokey burnouts in Beausejour.

£20 for rear brake pads. Oh lord.

That must be the slowest driven car to be ever seen on a track day.

Ps did you choose Bedford due to the really low noise limits? I know how much you don't like the sound of cars and people having fun

I really shouldn't respond to this, but you've put in so much effort and I'm only killing time in a taxi.
Your "trackday guru" credentials are in serious disarray if you believe anything you've written there - although I sense you're typing much of this for effect/attention.

Bedford was recommended to me (on here and elsewhere) by numerous real trackday enthusiasts as the ideal circuit for a beginner. Perhaps you have some contrary insight to offer? We're all ears...

As for the "slowest car" comment, I really shouldn't feed the troll, but the one piece of consistent advice from everyone I know who has a few trackdays under their belt is "it doesn't matter how fast you go, as long as you're having fun". Perhaps you disagree? We're all ears...
Perhaps you're more the type that feels the need to get out on track and prove your masculinity by 'racing' everyone else? I'll leave you to that...

Edited by C70R on Monday 8th August 21:43

[C70R]

Black_S3 said:

Exactly the miss match but probably fair to say the better feel is from the front R1Rs doubt you will get much feel from the rear tyres until they start to break away - which I imagine will be pretty sudden when it happens! I'd put money on your spin being lift off over steer... Most torsion barred french hatches of that era are notorious for it already, add in a lot less grip on the rear in a stripped out car where most the weight has come off the rear and I doubt many people would stand a chance catching it when it happens.

It's worth getting a set of rears to match the fronts. Gives you more scope to swap wheels about to even out the wear so to an extent will pay for itself.

Also, I think a lot of the 106 lot relocate the battery to centrally above the rear axle to restore the weight distribution? Nearly free to do, so might as well.

ETA what's your tyre size?

All sage words, and very probably the case - mixed with a bit of ambitious trail-braking by me. New tyres are on the shopping list when I get a spare moment.

Stock tyres are (annoyingly) 205/45-16.

Black_S3 said:

Do you have something against him?

You can ignore him, if you wish.
He had a bit of an adolescent tantrum on another thread, after a few members (myself included) felt it was a bit irresponsible to do burnouts on a crowded campsite.
You can extrapolate the kind of person we're dealing with from there.

Edited by C70R on Monday 8th August 21:33

[Toltec]

C70R said:

Stock tyres are (annoyingly) 205/45-16.

If you can fit a set of 15" wheels the 195/50 R15 are quite a bit cheaper and will still give you a lot more grip than a normal road tyre. They are 2.5% smaller diameter so will give you slightly shorter gearing which might help on track too.

[Black_S3]

Toltec said:

C70R said:

Stock tyres are (annoyingly) 205/45-16.

If you can fit a set of 15" wheels the 195/50 R15 are quite a bit cheaper and will still give you a lot more grip than a normal road tyre. They are 2.5% smaller diameter so will give you slightly shorter gearing which might help on track too.

That's pretty much where I was going - I know you're trying to avoid the upgrade bug but it's worth getting to the ideal size now to save in the long run. 195/50/15 R1Rs are £66 new from my tyres... 205/45/16 R1Rs is £150 each?! £600 a set vs £250 a set... by the time you've sold your existing wheels you could even be in profit on the first set!

There's loads of surplus 15'' wheels already on decent tyres in 4x108 et35 (I think this is correct for a 206 gti - not sure if it would foul the brakes though) kicking about in the 7 type circles for surprisingly little money - locostbuilders/WSCC/lotus7club etc.

[james_gt3rs]

C70R said:

Stock tyres are (annoyingly) 205/45-16.

I think you can get Federal RSRs or Yokohama AD08s in that size (it's the tyre I'm thinking of putting on the front of my car next). Normal road tyres would be fine also.

[C70R]

Cheers for the input, folks.

Availability doesn't seem to be a major issue - it looks like we can get R1Rs, RSRs and NS2Rs to fit. To be perfectly honest, the extra cost for a slightly larger tyre is worth it compared with the effort of having to buy and sell whole sets of wheels/tyres. We're probably just going to order a pair of NS2Rs for around £150 (from Ebay), and rotate the worn R1Rs to the rear. Reviews of these tyres (in both compound types) on lightweight hatches seem favourable. If we can get the softer compound, that would be ideal.

Now it's just a case of finding the time to do it!

Edited by C70R on Tuesday 9th August 09:42

[routari]

james_gt3rs said:

I think you can get Federal RSRs or Yokohama AD08s in that size (it's the tyre I'm thinking of putting on the front of my car next). Normal road tyres would be fine also.

205/45 R16 is the standard size of the NB MX-5, and you can get Yokohama AD08R tyres in that size. Cheapest I found was through demon-tweeks's eBay page. NOT their main site, weirdly. They were 20% off and apparently an excellent tyre. I'm trying some out on a different car next Monday at Bedford! They're about £100 cheaper in 195/50 R15 though! Brother-in-law will be trying that side of AD08R on the same day.

[Hol]

C70R said:

towelie said:

You're getting ripped off for dinner in that case pal.

Oh dear... Bless you.
Mrs C and I regularly enjoy eating out at nice restaurants, usually those with Michelin stars (or multiples thereof). In this scenario cost is almost always commensurate with quality - but I wouldn't have expected someone like you understand that. I'll be sure to let you know the next time we eat at a Harvester.

towelie said:

I'll keep this concise as there's too much fail to go into detail.

£100 for used r1rs, Jesus. Google federal 595rsr, great tyres and cheap. R1rs are practically rain tyres.

Pirelli p6000s are st tyres. Only good for doing big smokey burnouts in Beausejour.

£20 for rear brake pads. Oh lord.

That must be the slowest driven car to be ever seen on a track day.

Ps did you choose Bedford due to the really low noise limits? I know how much you don't like the sound of cars and people having fun

I really shouldn't respond to this, but you've put in so much effort and I'm only killing time in a taxi.
Your "trackday guru" credentials are in serious disarray if you believe anything you've written there - although I sense you're typing much of this for effect/attention.

Bedford was recommended to me (on here and elsewhere) by numerous real trackday enthusiasts as the ideal circuit for a beginner. Perhaps you have some contrary insight to offer? We're all ears...

As for the "slowest car" comment, I really shouldn't feed the troll, but the one piece of consistent advice from everyone I know who has a few trackdays under their belt is "it doesn't matter how fast you go, as long as you're having fun". Perhaps you disagree? We're all ears...
Perhaps you're more the type that feels the need to get out on track and prove your masculinity by 'racing' everyone else? I'll leave you to that...

Edited by C70R on Monday 8th August 21:43

You did indeed ask for advice as indicated in bold, before booking your first track day - very sensible.

I was one of those numerous people who advised a flat airfield with lots of run out and also said to ignore the idiots - (not just those on track it would seem).

Edited by Hol on Tuesday 9th August 13:49

[towelie]

Federals in 195/50/15 are 52.50 from camskill. I know it's a ball ache getting new wheels, but once you start getting quicker, if you don't have sufficient -ve camber you can easily destroy the shoulders after a day on track(venue dependent, Anglesey is the worst for it).

Don't get me wrong Bedford is a good track, I was there only two weeks ago.

I hardly threw a tantrum on the other thread, I actually found common ground with many of the other contributors. C70r got rather upset though and decided to start stalking me

Also to add, the federals are very progressive on breakaway. I have them on all 3 of my cars and drive them all through winter as well, that's including driving over snowy fell roads, numerous track days and B road blasting. I do 800 miles a week on them.

Edited by towelie on Tuesday 9th August 18:18

[C70R]

Hol said:

You did indeed ask for advice as indicated in bold, before booking your first track day - very sensible.

I was one of those numerous people who advised a flat airfield with lots of run out and also said to ignore the idiots - (not just those on track it would seem).

Sage counsel, based on our experience. I'm very grateful.

[C70R]

Looks like our next outing (and probably the last before tucking the car away for winter) will be another Javelin day, at Woodbridge on the 1st October.

[C70R]

If anyone is at Woodbridge this Saturday, do feel free to come over and say "hi".

Hopefully we should get the new tyres (NS2) fitted on Friday afternoon - fingers crossed!

[C70R]

A brilliant day out at Woodbridge on Saturday, again impeccably organised by Javelin - albeit with a tiny bit less corporate 'slickness' than Bedford, but that's to be expected.

We approached the 'airfield' track with a bit of trepidation, with visions of debris and weed-strewn runways, rough/uneven surfaces and tricky 'coned' layout. The reality couldn't have been further from the truth!
The surface changes (tarmac to concrete, and back) provided some excellent challenges to adapt, and the snaking layout was both challenging yet easy to learn. The second-gear complex after the first long straight was a particular highlight in the 206, nudging the redline before braking hard and gently guiding the car between corners. We both got plenty of seat-time due to the modest attendance, and got progressively quicker and smoother as the day went on.

Even the weather decided to play ball. With "thundery showers" forecast, we'd prepared for the worst and brought umbrellas/waterproofs, but it transpired that we would only get two real showers all day. The first was a light shower early in the morning, which burned off pretty quickly, leaving us with a track which had plenty of differing grip levels - a proper challenge! The second was a monumental thunderstorm just after lunch, which we sat out (in our support E-Class with reclined seats) while the poor chap queuing to join the track in his Radical was bailing the water out!

A few passenger rides in a friend's 600bhp GTR reminded me of the difference between grip and GRIP on greasy surfaces, but it wasn't really the day to be pushing a £50k car to its limit. Having said that, this didn't seem to stop the guys in the 997 GT3, F-Type and M4 - they left shortly before lunch after one-too-many 'quiet words' from the (excellent) marshals. We didn't witness much bad driving from them, but to be in front of the 'beak' so many times suggests persistent indiscretion.
The group of MX5s seemed to be having a great time, as they hung on (with us) until the final chequered flag of the day - the award for 'first corner moment of the day' is probably somewhere between them and the chap in the super-loud M3. Other track-goers were generally courteous, albeit less chatty than at Bedford, and incidents were fairly minimal. Two red flags were the only downside to the day - one for a Puma with a broken balljoint, and one for a kit car which stopped early on in the lap.

The 206 performed faultlessly, as it was driven hard for 60-something laps during the course of the day. A slight blow in the exhaust (cracked weld) on the monster drive home was the only sign that it had been given a good workout. It will now be laid up over winter (MOT expires soon, and we're both super-busy with other things), to be dusted off and overhauled in the Spring, with a view to joining the Javelin sprint series.

To anyone considering sharing a track car - get on with it! It's the most fun I've had in almost 20 years of driving!

[C70R]

If anyone was interested (guessing not!), the 206 has now been SORN'd for the winter with the MOT expiry fast approaching (and our calendars quickly filling).

Some quick maths suggests that, including absolutely everything (from purchase of the car, to petrol, insurance and trackday entry), we've spent about £750 each to buy a car, do some basic repairs/upgrades and get along to two brilliant trackdays.
Frankly, after the experiences we've had, I can't think of anything I'd have rather spent the money on! In this short time we've already learned loads about our driving styles and (lack of) talent, and had a bloody good laugh to boot. The bug has well and truly bitten.
(less-than-impartial observers will be disappointed to hear that we're still friends )

Plans are simmering to fettle/tidy a little and enter a few early rounds of the Javelin Sprint Series next year (not sure if we'd be C3 or D3, based on "a few minor performance enhancements"), and see how competitive we are with the MX5s and Clios.

Thank you to everyone who weighed in with good advice in the early part of this thread.

Edited by C70R on Friday 21st October 11:20

[docter fox]

C70R said:

less-than-impartial observers will be disappointed to hear that we're still friends )

I was expecting this update to be that you'd been attacked with a strut brace that you'd wanted to fit to the car by your friend that disagreed... Grown adults getting along and having fun? This simply won't do.

[daniel-5zjw7]

Glad to hear you enjoyed Woodbridge, I think its a great 'track' for stock/lightly modded cars, and a good one for driver improvement too given the changes in surface as you say! I did the first event of the year there and the runway was literally green!