Shared trackday cars - Logistics?

[C70R]

JoeMarano said:

Wow things got put into perspective when you said a nice meal cost £500!

The last nice meal I had probably cost me £50!

Everything is relative, and it's not intended as a point of snobbery. I had a curry at Tayyabs last night than cost ~£50 with a nice bottle of BYO wine - it was absolutely great, as usual.

[Trabi601]

I'm confused.

You're happy to splurge 500 quid on a 'nice meal', yet won't spend 500 quid on your own track car?

There's one other point to note - you'll be outcasts in the paddock - 3 blokes sharing a 500 quid snotter is always a big red warning flag for crap on-track etiquette.

[Chainsaw Rebuild]

Splitting things can be done. I shared a motorbike with a friend (I had nowhere to put it at the time).

We agreed that we would split the cost of maintenance equally. If you crashed it you had to repair it or buy the other half.

It work really well!

[C70R]

Trabi601 said:

I'm confused.

You're happy to splurge 500 quid on a 'nice meal', yet won't spend 500 quid on your own track car?

There's one other point to note - you'll be outcasts in the paddock - 3 blokes sharing a 500 quid snotter is always a big red warning flag for crap on-track etiquette.

Thanks. No, really.

Thanks for highlighting yourself as an ahole. Please don't post on this thread again, as you clearly have nothing of use to contribute.

[rallycross]

We did this with a couple of mates and over 3 or 4 years we did loads of track days and it worked out as a cheap way to do it (with me having good motor trade contacts that kept the costs down for work done on the car over the period). We had 3 cars over that time, upgraded to a better car each time I sold the current one. The car was registered to me and insured by me, the others could drive on the road using their DOC.

We put in £500 each to get going, maybe would need a bit more @ today's prices things like road tax going up.

Buy something thats cheap to run ideally thats already been prepared for track use and only spend money on things that are important like brakes, tyres, safety and don't ruin the car by stripping everything out of it (this wont make the slightest difference for some basic track fun and also kills the re-sale value).

Avoid track days with sessions as this did not work out well when we were sharing the driving but open session days were fine even with 3 of us driving never felt like we did'nt get enough time on a full day.

We were all London based and mainly used Motorsport Events.com, plus Bedford, Brands, Goodwood and Lydden but also did a few at Cadwell (worth the trip and stay over) Donnington, Rockingham, Castle Combe.

Edited by rallycross on Tuesday 28th June 12:13

[C70R]

rallycross said:

We did this with a couple of mates and over 3 or 4 years we did loads of track days and it worked out as a cheap way to do it (with me having good motor trade contacts that kept the costs down for work done on the car over the period). We had 3 cars over that time, upgraded to a better car each time I sold the current one. The car was registered to me and insured by me, the others could drive on the road using their DOC.

We put in £500 each to get going, maybe would need a bit more @ today's prices things like road tax going up.

Buy something thats cheap to run ideally thats already been prepared for track use and only spend money on things that are important like brakes, tyres, safety and don't ruin the car by stripping everything out of it (this wont make the slightest difference for some basic track fun and also kills the re-sale value).

Avoid track days with sessions as this did not work out well when we were sharing the driving but open session days were fine even with 3 of us driving never felt like we did'nt we enough time on a full day.

We were all London based and mainly used Motorsport Events.com, plus Bedford, Brands, Goodwood and Lydden but also did a few at Cadwell (worth the trip and stay over) Donnington, Rockingham, Castle Combe.

Thank you so much. Excellent advice and input.

[JoeMarano]

I met a couple of guys at Snetterton sharing a car and they were spot on to be honest.

[C70R]

JoeMarano said:

I met a couple of guys at Snetterton sharing a car and they were spot on to be honest.

Good to know, cheers. Not sure why there should be stigma attached to people sharing a car. I'd say that half the appeal for me would be giving/taking passenger laps with my best mates - surely it's an experience that's better shared (hints, tips, lines etc.), right?

[james_gt3rs]

C70R said:

Good to know, cheers. Not sure why there should be stigma attached to people sharing a car. I'd say that half the appeal for me would be giving/taking passenger laps with my best mates - surely it's an experience that's better shared (hints, tips, lines etc.), right?

I remember reading on here one of the TDOs saying that 3 people sharing 1 car statistically is the one most likely to crash. In my personal experience, most cars in the barriers are the cheap cars trailered to the circuit..

[silverthorn2151]

3 of us shared a Radical for years and it was brilliant. You will work out the details about running costs in your own way.

We had such a laugh along the way and met great people. No probs from TDOs at all. The SR3 was self limiting in terms of track time. 3 chubbymiddle aged guys get knackered quickly and it broke down a lot.

Go for it, I totally get what you are trying to do and ignore the naysayers on here.

[MG CHRIS]

C70R said:

Christ on a bike. Why does PH love such a downer? Why do people who have no experience of it think I want their opinion on why it will be a disaster?

For those who bothered to read the first post, the decision is made - that's not up for debate, and I'm not looking for input there.
We three have enough going on in our lives that we aren't going to fall out over something as trivial as a cheap car and a few hundred quid.

If anyone is thinking of contributing, can you please please try to answer what I've asked in my first post.
How does it work with TDOs? Is it possible? Are all TDOs willing to let 3 drivers go? Are any circuits/TDOs more amenable than others?

C70R said:

We've known each other long enough and the value is sufficiently low that there will not be any major issues with the financial or ownership side of things
...
What is a bit of a leap into the unknown is how the actual process of getting on track works between three people.

and here comes the doom...

sjg said:

Do you want to remain friends with these people? If so, split the rental of a BaT Caterham with them a few times a year instead.

gbk said:

This is really good advice.

sjg said:

So you'd walk away from your £500 share of the car with no hard feelings if your mate drove like an idiot and crashed it before you even had a go? Or you'd put in another £500 for a new car and try again?

Trabi601 said:

I have a single word of advice for you.

Don't.

TooMany2cvs said:

Indeed. Sounds like a great way to lose two good friends.

MG CHRIS said:

I wouldn't tbh

We are giving you advice its what happens on a forum some of it negative some it positive if you had an open mind you would take some of the negatives on board and try and make it so it works rather than call us all tts etc etc.

[C70R]

MG CHRIS said:

We are giving you advice its what happens on a forum some of it negative some it positive if you had an open mind you would take some of the negatives on board and try and make it so it works rather than call us all tts etc etc.

In my OP I specifically asked for information about the TDO logistics, and stated that the other aspects (ownership, financial) wouldn't be an issue.
The majority of replies were doom-mongering from people who've never shared a track car. Ironically, the experiences of those who have actually done it appear to be positive.

If you can't see why that's annoying, you clearly have more patience than me.

[C70R]

silverthorn2151 said:

3 of us shared a Radical for years and it was brilliant. You will work out the details about running costs in your own way.

We had such a laugh along the way and met great people. No probs from TDOs at all. The SR3 was self limiting in terms of track time. 3 chubbymiddle aged guys get knackered quickly and it broke down a lot.

Go for it, I totally get what you are trying to do and ignore the naysayers on here.

Thank you for the insight. Hugely relevant; hugely appreciated.

We're dipping a cautious toe in the water at this stage, as we originally got a bit carried away over a few drinks one evening. We'd originally started down the road of looking at Atoms and Caterfields, but fit/size (two of us are pretty tall) was looking to be a limiting factor.

Thankfully (given that one of us has a child on the way and another is starting a new business), we've scaled back our ambition to see whether a modified hot hatchback is enough to generate the necessary spark.

[C70R]

james_gt3rs said:

I remember reading on here one of the TDOs saying that 3 people sharing 1 car statistically is the one most likely to crash. In my personal experience, most cars in the barriers are the cheap cars trailered to the circuit..

That increased risk would seem reasonably intuitive to me, to be honest. Hence the increase cost to mitigate for the risk.

You effectively have a car that probably spends more time on track than the average solo-piloted car; yet the drivers each spend less time, and don't know/learn the track so well.

[Camoradi]

Hi C70R,

I've shared my car with friends or relatives on track days. Two drivers works about right, three is doable but I would suggest having the car on track 50% of the time is about the max in order to let it cool down etc, and in my case this is with a light car which is easy on brakes and tyres. Also open pit lanes days work best as you don't feel obliged to do a full 15 or 20 minute session and can swap driver more often.

Most organisers will charge a nominal fee EG £20 for additional drivers/passenger. Not sure about limits on numbers but I have done 3 sharing a car several years back.

re potential for damage, my thinking is that the other driver is no more likely to crash than I am, and I am old enough to know it is my risk so I can't complain if it does get damaged. I sometimes pay for track day insurance but have yet to test how easy it is to claim.

Hope it goes well for you

[C70R]

Camoradi said:

Hi C70R,

I've shared my car with friends or relatives on track days. Two drivers works about right, three is doable but I would suggest having the car on track 50% of the time is about the max in order to let it cool down etc, and in my case this is with a light car which is easy on brakes and tyres. Also open pit lanes days work best as you don't feel obliged to do a full 15 or 20 minute session and can swap driver more often.

Most organisers will charge a nominal fee EG £20 for additional drivers/passenger. Not sure about limits on numbers but I have done 3 sharing a car several years back.

re potential for damage, my thinking is that the other driver is no more likely to crash than I am, and I am old enough to know it is my risk so I can't complain if it does get damaged. I sometimes pay for track day insurance but have yet to test how easy it is to claim.

Hope it goes well for you

Thanks kindly. All sounds perfectly sensible.

[E-bmw]

I haven't shared a car fully before, but have let people be co-drivers of my car, which luckily for me is well up to lengthy periods on track, so was fine the few times I did it.

For my 2p I would say (as you already have kind of covered) do it as cheap as you can (sub £1k car, £200 suspension lowering kit, new discs/good pads (plus spares) racing brake fluid, give it a good service, take EVERYTHING you can out of it & enjoy.

Lay some ground rules about costs (eg £400 each covers the (as above) prepared car, split the cost of the day between the 2 or 3 able to attend, the rest will fall into place between like-minded-adults.

I have done 3 at a javelin day once and they never said anything about numbers, but they have known me for some years, so just check with a couple first to make sure they have no issues with 3 in 1 car.

[C70R]

E-bmw said:

For my 2p I would say (as you already have kind of covered) do it as cheap as you can (sub £1k car, £200 suspension lowering kit, new discs/good pads (plus spares) racing brake fluid, give it a good service, take EVERYTHING you can out of it & enjoy.

Lay some ground rules about costs (eg £400 each covers the (as above) prepared car, split the cost of the day between the 2 or 3 able to attend, the rest will fall into place between like-minded-adults.

This is, almost verbatim, our plan. Thank you for the reassurance.

I really feel sorry for the naysayers, thinking that such small amounts of money and trivial problems would be enough to destroy friendships.

[docter fox]

The money thing is all relative so not worth me commenting on if you can afford it but the advice about agreeing who pays for what up front is a good idea and a healthy kitty is even better.

There's no doubt that 2 a day would be logistically more simple as you can passenger whilst the other drives (most track days insist on a max of 2 in the car on track) but 3 isn't unworkable. I would definitely avoid sessions and look for open pit lane days to make the most of the day as most track days insist your additional drivers are in the same group, might be worth checking to see if some don't. I haven't seen limits about adding 3 drivers but then I haven't really been looking as I've only ever added one additional driver.

The biggest challenge I see would be coordinating calendars but if each of you is happy that the other 2 use it if one of you can't make the day then that would also relieve some of the pressures above. It's also worth considering the logistics of where you'd keep the car and whether it'd be on the road/taxed/insured as that would generally mean that one person was responsible for the admin side, which is made a lot easier with a kitty to use.

Regarding the car, I've recently picked up a Clio 182 with cup packs for just under your price limit, upgraded discs and pads and a set of semi slicks mean it's great fun on track!

[Trabi601]

C70R said:

This is, almost verbatim, our plan. Thank you for the reassurance.

I really feel sorry for the naysayers, thinking that such small amounts of money and trivial problems would be enough to destroy friendships.

Here's a theoretical scenario for you.

Buy car. Say 500 quid.
Spend a few hundred and a weekend getting it how you want. 300 quid.
Book a track day. Another 300 quid (for 3 drivers at a big name track)
Decide it would be a good idea to go down the night before. So, room in a pub, beer, food. 150 quid.
Fill with fuel. 60 quid.

Your personal spend is now over 500 quid and you've not yet driven.

You draw straws to be the first one to take it out. Someone gets a bit over-enthusiastic on a damp track and stacks it 10 minutes into the first session of the day. The car can't be used again that day, it's possible it's not worth repairing.

So you've spent over 500 quid and not yet driven it.

You may write that off, but I'm not sure anyone could be that tolerant.

If you bin it, others may not be so happy.

Then it gets very messy. Broken friendships, threats of legal action etc.

Some of my best track days have been when I've been with a friend in a similar performance car - no racing, but swapping places every few laps.