Shared trackday cars - Logistics?
Discussion
C70R said:
We're dipping a cautious toe in the water at this stage, as we originally got a bit carried away over a few drinks one evening. We'd originally started down the road of looking at Atoms and Caterfields, but fit/size (two of us are pretty tall) was looking to be a limiting factor.
Thankfully (given that one of us has a child on the way and another is starting a new business), we've scaled back our ambition to see whether a modified hot hatchback is enough to generate the necessary spark.
We ended up getting a TVR, then another with a roll bar, upgraded suspension and a bigger engine as it was more cost effective than upgrading the first one. Sold the first car for more than we paid for it and the second for a grand less than we paid after five years. It did 8mpg on track, but worth every penny just for the noise of that V8 at full chat.Thankfully (given that one of us has a child on the way and another is starting a new business), we've scaled back our ambition to see whether a modified hot hatchback is enough to generate the necessary spark.
Get something to give it a try, if it works for you all and you get the bug you can always swap for something else. Our rule was simple, don't spend more on a car than you are willing to write off. As cheaper alternative to a Caterham have a look at the Sylva or Raw Striker, when looked after most kits will also hold their value.
Trabi601 said:
...scenario...
So you've spent over 500 quid and not yet driven it.
You may write that off, but I'm not sure anyone could be that tolerant.
If you bin it, others may not be so happy.
Then it gets very messy. Broken friendships, threats of legal action etc.
So, we can sum your strongly-held (in spite of no actual experience) view up in two points:So you've spent over 500 quid and not yet driven it.
You may write that off, but I'm not sure anyone could be that tolerant.
If you bin it, others may not be so happy.
Then it gets very messy. Broken friendships, threats of legal action etc.
1. You can't afford to write-off £500 on having a bit of fun, so therefore nobody else can.
2. You don't have friends who are close enough that crashing a cheap car wouldn't result in legal action, so nobody else does.
Your unfounded doom-mongering is unnecessary and misplaced, and doesn't reflect the reality of the people who have posted here with actual experience.
Please take your post-whoring to another thread.
Toltec said:
We ended up getting a TVR, then another with a roll bar, upgraded suspension and a bigger engine as it was more cost effective than upgrading the first one. Sold the first car for more than we paid for it and the second for a grand less than we paid after five years. It did 8mpg on track, but worth every penny just for the noise of that V8 at full chat.
Get something to give it a try, if it works for you all and you get the bug you can always swap for something else. Our rule was simple, don't spend more on a car than you are willing to write off. As cheaper alternative to a Caterham have a look at the Sylva or Raw Striker, when looked after most kits will also hold their value.
This is indeed the plan. A few hundred pounds on something disposable for a year or so (probably until the MOT becomes expensive or we get bored), then re-evaluate what we want out of it.Get something to give it a try, if it works for you all and you get the bug you can always swap for something else. Our rule was simple, don't spend more on a car than you are willing to write off. As cheaper alternative to a Caterham have a look at the Sylva or Raw Striker, when looked after most kits will also hold their value.
The kit car idea was shelved due to size issues (two of us are >6ft3), rather than cost. Although I still think we would probably limit ourselves to around £3-4k a head in the long-term, as that's approaching the level where it starts to get painful to lose. After all, there's no sense getting carried away with something that will only see use a few weekends a year.
HustleRussell said:
I'd buy a car you're going to be willing to invest in from the off. The parts you buy for it and the work you do on it cannot be carried forward to the next car (Unless it was the same make & model which'd be pretty pointless).
I would make that the second car, the first car is to find out if the idea works for the group. Make a point of not spending on upgrades other than better pads and tyres.Other positives with sharing, working on the car is easier and more enjoyable with someone else. It means you have to arrange a time to do it so the motivation to get it done is stronger. Two heads are better for solving problems, it makes working under the car safer and it is really handy if someone can pass you a spanner rather than having to crawl back out from underneath.
Toltec said:
HustleRussell said:
I'd buy a car you're going to be willing to invest in from the off. The parts you buy for it and the work you do on it cannot be carried forward to the next car (Unless it was the same make & model which'd be pretty pointless).
I would make that the second car, the first car is to find out if the idea works for the group. Make a point of not spending on upgrades other than better pads and tyres.As mentioned, it would be easy to get carried away and spend £10k on something we didn't need after a few beers. Common sense prevails, and any money we 'lose' on the first car will be seen as an investment in 'proof of concept'.
Camoradi said:
If it is going to be used on track only, a used race car could save you a lot of money. My brother in law recently picked up a Mk2 MR2 which was race ready for the 750 motor club series , road legal with 11 months MOT, for £1750. I was quite amazed at how much he got for the money.
That's an excellent shout. Where does one look for such unbelievable bargains?C70R said:
So, we can sum your strongly-held (in spite of no actual experience) view up in two points:
1. You can't afford to write-off £500 on having a bit of fun, so therefore nobody else can.
2. You don't have friends who are close enough that crashing a cheap car wouldn't result in legal action, so nobody else does.
Your unfounded doom-mongering is unnecessary and misplaced, and doesn't reflect the reality of the people who have posted here with actual experience.
Please take your post-whoring to another thread.
Experience of lots of track days and the kind of people who are first into the barriers.1. You can't afford to write-off £500 on having a bit of fun, so therefore nobody else can.
2. You don't have friends who are close enough that crashing a cheap car wouldn't result in legal action, so nobody else does.
Your unfounded doom-mongering is unnecessary and misplaced, and doesn't reflect the reality of the people who have posted here with actual experience.
Please take your post-whoring to another thread.
Crack on, but if your attitude to track etiquette is anything like your attitude on this thread, I hope to never share a track with you.
Trabi601 said:
C70R said:
So, we can sum your strongly-held (in spite of no actual experience) view up in two points:
1. You can't afford to write-off £500 on having a bit of fun, so therefore nobody else can.
2. You don't have friends who are close enough that crashing a cheap car wouldn't result in legal action, so nobody else does.
Your unfounded doom-mongering is unnecessary and misplaced, and doesn't reflect the reality of the people who have posted here with actual experience.
Please take your post-whoring to another thread.
Experience of lots of track days and the kind of people who are first into the barriers.1. You can't afford to write-off £500 on having a bit of fun, so therefore nobody else can.
2. You don't have friends who are close enough that crashing a cheap car wouldn't result in legal action, so nobody else does.
Your unfounded doom-mongering is unnecessary and misplaced, and doesn't reflect the reality of the people who have posted here with actual experience.
Please take your post-whoring to another thread.
Crack on, but if your attitude to track etiquette is anything like your attitude on this thread, I hope to never share a track with you.
It is about trust and responsibility. If you bend it, you mend it. If your mate bends it, he mends it. If he doesn't then falling out with him is not a problem as he is not the sort of friend you want.
Yes, your mate could wreck it on the first outing and you have wasted the day, but s
t happens, you will get over it. And if you can't afford to damage your car then you should leave it at home in the garage.I also see no problem at all with being on track with a shared car. If it gets driven badly then it should be black flagged. If it isn't, then you need to use another trackday organiser.
It is really a personal attitude to risk but I can see how the OP might get a bit fed up with being told he shouldn't do it, just because others see a theoretical risk. Especially as he has made it clear he accepts that risk.
brman said:
Trabi601 said:
C70R said:
So, we can sum your strongly-held (in spite of no actual experience) view up in two points:
1. You can't afford to write-off £500 on having a bit of fun, so therefore nobody else can.
2. You don't have friends who are close enough that crashing a cheap car wouldn't result in legal action, so nobody else does.
Your unfounded doom-mongering is unnecessary and misplaced, and doesn't reflect the reality of the people who have posted here with actual experience.
Please take your post-whoring to another thread.
Experience of lots of track days and the kind of people who are first into the barriers.1. You can't afford to write-off £500 on having a bit of fun, so therefore nobody else can.
2. You don't have friends who are close enough that crashing a cheap car wouldn't result in legal action, so nobody else does.
Your unfounded doom-mongering is unnecessary and misplaced, and doesn't reflect the reality of the people who have posted here with actual experience.
Please take your post-whoring to another thread.
Crack on, but if your attitude to track etiquette is anything like your attitude on this thread, I hope to never share a track with you.
It is about trust and responsibility. If you bend it, you mend it. If your mate bends it, he mends it. If he doesn't then falling out with him is not a problem as he is not the sort of friend you want.
Yes, your mate could wreck it on the first outing and you have wasted the day, but s
t happens, you will get over it. And if you can't afford to damage your car then you should leave it at home in the garage.I also see no problem at all with being on track with a shared car. If it gets driven badly then it should be black flagged. If it isn't, then you need to use another trackday organiser.
It is really a personal attitude to risk but I can see how the OP might get a bit fed up with being told he shouldn't do it, just because others see a theoretical risk. Especially as he has made it clear he accepts that risk.
The change of tack is hilarious - such obvious attention whoring. He hasn't been able to dissuade me with irrelevant, baseless concerns; so he switches to telling me how I'll be obviously be a liability on track.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It appears that some people are a little too precious about a few hundred pounds between good friends to take advantage of something that could be fantastic fun!
One point I didn't notice mentioned previously (apologies if it was and I missed it) is sighting laps - the TDO really wants every driver to do sighting laps at the start of the day, or at least before they first go out. Given you're not allowed rear seat passengers, make sure that your third driver grabs a seat in someone else's car for them.
I don't think you'll have a problem with three drivers overall, but I do remember an MX5 turning up to Brands Hatch a few years back with 8 registered drivers! Three should slip under the radar, but be prepared in case it gets questioned.
I don't think you'll have a problem with three drivers overall, but I do remember an MX5 turning up to Brands Hatch a few years back with 8 registered drivers! Three should slip under the radar, but be prepared in case it gets questioned.
Output Flange said:
One point I didn't notice mentioned previously (apologies if it was and I missed it) is sighting laps - the TDO really wants every driver to do sighting laps at the start of the day, or at least before they first go out. Given you're not allowed rear seat passengers, make sure that your third driver grabs a seat in someone else's car for them.
I don't think you'll have a problem with three drivers overall, but I do remember an MX5 turning up to Brands Hatch a few years back with 8 registered drivers! Three should slip under the radar, but be prepared in case it gets questioned.
Thanks for the input. Something I hadn't considered at all!I don't think you'll have a problem with three drivers overall, but I do remember an MX5 turning up to Brands Hatch a few years back with 8 registered drivers! Three should slip under the radar, but be prepared in case it gets questioned.
I've been playing around on a few TDO websites, and most do actually allow you to book with a number of additional drivers. Cost is usual around £50 per extra head, or so.
C70R said:
That's an excellent shout. Where does one look for such unbelievable bargains?
He found it on herehttp://www.750mc.co.uk/classifieds.htm
how about?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/t...
Edited by Camoradi on Thursday 30th June 15:56
Camoradi said:
I like that. Reason for sale: I lost my licenseSo it hasn't been driven slowly then?
I was looking at the bike in the picsOne of the best things I've ever done was to buy a 172 Cup with a mate and mod it into a track car! Much more fun sharing the whole experience. We're 3 and a half years in now. One piece of advice might be to buy a part modified car to start with. Less interesting than deciding your own mods, but definitely cheaper.
Most track days will accommodate extra drivers. Costs vary but most will be happy to take the money. Typically £150 +£25 for each extra driver.
Decide who's happy to do what before you buy the car. Eg I organise tax, insurance and tyres and my mate sorts the lock up, MOT and servicing. Do a proper budget. I keep a cost spreadsheet and we do an occasional true up as needed.. Tyres, brakes and servicing all add up so be realistic and set some general principles before you start so everyone understands the approximate costs. Decide how much stuff you'll do yourself and who organises the garage visits for the bits you don't fancy.
8-10 track days a year is good going! We probably get about 5 in between about May and October.
Most track days will accommodate extra drivers. Costs vary but most will be happy to take the money. Typically £150 +£25 for each extra driver.
Decide who's happy to do what before you buy the car. Eg I organise tax, insurance and tyres and my mate sorts the lock up, MOT and servicing. Do a proper budget. I keep a cost spreadsheet and we do an occasional true up as needed.. Tyres, brakes and servicing all add up so be realistic and set some general principles before you start so everyone understands the approximate costs. Decide how much stuff you'll do yourself and who organises the garage visits for the bits you don't fancy.
8-10 track days a year is good going! We probably get about 5 in between about May and October.
Thanks all - I think I have everything I need. A quick synopsis of feedback suggests:
- People who have done it before: "Yes, do it now, it's fantastic."
- People who have never done it: "No, you're going to lose friends, end up in court etc."
My final post on the subject.
This has come up several times before, usually with the large majority saying 'don't'.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Read specifically jonnyleroux's post. I understand he is a TDO and has seen these things go sour.
This has come up several times before, usually with the large majority saying 'don't'.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Read specifically jonnyleroux's post. I understand he is a TDO and has seen these things go sour.
Trabi601 said:
My final post on the subject.
I rather hope that's true, because you're not really adding much by way of experience.The bloke in your thread hasn't ever shared a trackday car, and is doing nothing more than you - discussing potential negative outcomes.
However, if we're quoting selectively, from the same thread...
0llie said:
it is probably the best money I have spent on a car. Spending time with 2 good friends, learning how to maintain the car properly, deciding on upgrades and seeing the progress you are making with the car, the road trips to the circuit, and learning how to drive quickly along with your friends is about as good as motoring experiences come IMHO.
Edited by C70R on Friday 1st July 16:08
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