Shared trackday cars - Logistics?
Discussion
Camoradi said:
Good to hear you went for it. I like the idea of a small hot hatch for track days. Looks like the right balance of performance and fun with sensible costs
It's funny you say that. The chap in the new 911 Turbo was flabbergasted when we told him how little we'd paid for our trackday car - our total investement was about a third of what he expected to spend on consumables.My co-owner and I could comfortably afford a much bigger investment (we'd initially talked about a track-prepped E46 M3), but we felt like this 'disposable' level of spend made for a much more enjoyable and relaxed experience (including schoolgirl giggling at our spin) in the short-term.
While the 911 was hitting 160+ on the long straight, the owner bemoaned the lack of engagement and feedback (and fear of damage). So much so that he vowed to bring his Clio Cup the next time he did a trackday...
routari said:
There's a lot to be said for a slower well handling car on a track day.
Agreed, particularly for the novice trackgoer. We have both owned and driven much faster cars (our 'support vehicle' was my co-owner's SL500!), but agreed that we probably wouldn't have had significantly more fun in something faster. Whether this stays the same in future is unclear - but the grins on our faces after a session each suggest nothing fundamentally needs to change for the foreseeable.For those following this from the perspective of money etc., I can report that it's been fairly easy to keep a rough track of major expenses to date (including things like insurance and tax). We're logging our spending in a Google Docs spreadsheet, and have a joint bank account where we're depositing a cash each month to cover future outlay.
For anyone considering getting into this with a friend, I can wholeheartedly recommend it.
You may notice that we have reduced in number (from 3 to 2) since my first post. Friend #3 is suitably green with envy after we shared Monday's videos, but has decided to stay on the sidelines until next year because of abnormal work commitments (selling a business).
towelie said:
Nice to see that you've taken a step towards becoming a petrolhead ??.
Although can you pm me when you're going on your next TD so I can avoid that day? You definitely sound like a liability.
Oh also why fwd for track?
Although can you pm me when you're going on your next TD so I can avoid that day? You definitely sound like a liability.
Oh also why fwd for track?
Still showing off your brother's car on your profile, I see?
towelie said:
C70R said:
towelie said:
Nice to see that you've taken a step towards becoming a petrolhead ??.
Although can you pm me when you're going on your next TD so I can avoid that day? You definitely sound like a liability.
Oh also why fwd for track?
Although can you pm me when you're going on your next TD so I can avoid that day? You definitely sound like a liability.
Oh also why fwd for track?
Still showing off your brother's car on your profile, I see?
That's a Yellowstuff brake pad after one day on track. I could give you lots of very helpful advice such as don't be a moron sticking Linglongs on the rear and r1rs on the front ??, but I know you don't come here for advice.
Also it made my day just thinking about the fact I angered you so much that you had to start stalking me ??.
If you get into arguments with everyone who gives you advice on the forum. You should probably realise that it might be *you* that requires a reality check.
Thanks for the advice, kind guru and sage 'enthusiast'. I'll leave you to go back to your burnouts in McDonalds car park.
EDIT: Bloody plane wifi froze, and meant that I stuck two versions of the quoted bit in.
Edited by C70R on Monday 8th August 09:58
Trabi601 said:
I was slightly amused that they caused the only red flag of the day. Pretty much as I predicted from mates buying a cheap track car for a laugh.
I omitted the 5-6 yellow flags (that we saw) from more 'experienced' and well-prepped cars who had breakdowns and off-track excursions, and the chap in his M3 racecar who ended his day by pranging something and holing his radiator (although curiously we didn't spot a red flag).
But yes, of course, we were an utter liability.
If that's what it takes to amuse you, I'd suggest (based on your rate of post-whoring) a bit of time away from the internet.
Black_S3 said:
On a french torsion barred hatch that cannot end well.
They weren't actually "Linglongs" (I didn't even know that was a brand until I just Googled it - I assumed it was a PH 'in joke' for cheap tyres!).They aren't a mainstream brand (I can't actually remember off the top of my head), but the tyre chap who put our fronts on was reasonably complimentary about them - so we felt a little easier about running them.
In actual fact, that spin was the only time they put up significant protest in 40-odd laps on a sunny day - it was probably more a case of a mismatch, rather than the quality per se. I actually felt more confident on them than I have on Pirelli P6000s at road-legal speeds!
We'll be switching them for something stickier next time, but we were quite pleased with how they held up for a no-name brand.
carreauchompeur said:
Oh FFS get over yourselves. OP, sounds like a great laugh. Long may it last. If you don't mind, how much is your outlay so far?
I have always assumed that people come to places like PH to piss and moan, to help them relieve their day-to-day stresses. It's a bit tragic that people would only use this place to snipe (particularly when it's so repetitive), but it's a fact of life on the internet.Total outlay thus far looks like:
- Car: £350
- Pair of used Toyo R1Rs: £100 + fitting
- Rear pads: £20 + fitting
- Mechanic's inspection: £60 (plus replacement CV gaiter - no idea on cost)
We certainly got lucky to bag a 'part-prepped' car for such a good deal.
In fact, in total so far (ignoring tax/insurance/petrol and the day out on track), my share of the car has cost less than I paid for dinner on Friday!
Edited by C70R on Monday 8th August 10:03
towelie said:
You're getting ripped off for dinner in that case pal.
Oh dear... Bless you.Mrs C and I regularly enjoy eating out at nice restaurants, usually those with Michelin stars (or multiples thereof). In this scenario cost is almost always commensurate with quality - but I wouldn't have expected someone like you understand that. I'll be sure to let you know the next time we eat at a Harvester.
towelie said:
I'll keep this concise as there's too much fail to go into detail.
£100 for used r1rs, Jesus. Google federal 595rsr, great tyres and cheap. R1rs are practically rain tyres.
Pirelli p6000s are s
t tyres. Only good for doing big smokey burnouts in Beausejour.
£20 for rear brake pads. Oh lord.
That must be the slowest driven car to be ever seen on a track day.
Ps did you choose Bedford due to the really low noise limits? I know how much you don't like the sound of cars and people having fun
I really shouldn't respond to this, but you've put in so much effort and I'm only killing time in a taxi.£100 for used r1rs, Jesus. Google federal 595rsr, great tyres and cheap. R1rs are practically rain tyres.
Pirelli p6000s are s
t tyres. Only good for doing big smokey burnouts in Beausejour. £20 for rear brake pads. Oh lord.
That must be the slowest driven car to be ever seen on a track day.
Ps did you choose Bedford due to the really low noise limits? I know how much you don't like the sound of cars and people having fun
Your "trackday guru" credentials are in serious disarray if you believe anything you've written there - although I sense you're typing much of this for effect/attention.
Bedford was recommended to me (on here and elsewhere) by numerous real trackday enthusiasts as the ideal circuit for a beginner. Perhaps you have some contrary insight to offer? We're all ears...
As for the "slowest car" comment, I really shouldn't feed the troll, but the one piece of consistent advice from everyone I know who has a few trackdays under their belt is "it doesn't matter how fast you go, as long as you're having fun". Perhaps you disagree? We're all ears...
Perhaps you're more the type that feels the need to get out on track and prove your masculinity by 'racing' everyone else? I'll leave you to that...
Edited by C70R on Monday 8th August 21:43
Black_S3 said:
Exactly the miss match but probably fair to say the better feel is from the front R1Rs doubt you will get much feel from the rear tyres until they start to break away - which I imagine will be pretty sudden when it happens! I'd put money on your spin being lift off over steer... Most torsion barred french hatches of that era are notorious for it already, add in a lot less grip on the rear in a stripped out car where most the weight has come off the rear and I doubt many people would stand a chance catching it when it happens.
It's worth getting a set of rears to match the fronts. Gives you more scope to swap wheels about to even out the wear so to an extent will pay for itself.
Also, I think a lot of the 106 lot relocate the battery to centrally above the rear axle to restore the weight distribution? Nearly free to do, so might as well.
ETA what's your tyre size?
All sage words, and very probably the case - mixed with a bit of ambitious trail-braking by me. New tyres are on the shopping list when I get a spare moment.It's worth getting a set of rears to match the fronts. Gives you more scope to swap wheels about to even out the wear so to an extent will pay for itself.
Also, I think a lot of the 106 lot relocate the battery to centrally above the rear axle to restore the weight distribution? Nearly free to do, so might as well.
ETA what's your tyre size?
Stock tyres are (annoyingly) 205/45-16.
Black_S3 said:
Do you have something against him?
You can ignore him, if you wish.He had a bit of an adolescent tantrum on another thread, after a few members (myself included) felt it was a bit irresponsible to do burnouts on a crowded campsite.
You can extrapolate the kind of person we're dealing with from there.
Edited by C70R on Monday 8th August 21:33
Cheers for the input, folks.
Availability doesn't seem to be a major issue - it looks like we can get R1Rs, RSRs and NS2Rs to fit. To be perfectly honest, the extra cost for a slightly larger tyre is worth it compared with the effort of having to buy and sell whole sets of wheels/tyres. We're probably just going to order a pair of NS2Rs for around £150 (from Ebay), and rotate the worn R1Rs to the rear. Reviews of these tyres (in both compound types) on lightweight hatches seem favourable. If we can get the softer compound, that would be ideal.
Now it's just a case of finding the time to do it!
Availability doesn't seem to be a major issue - it looks like we can get R1Rs, RSRs and NS2Rs to fit. To be perfectly honest, the extra cost for a slightly larger tyre is worth it compared with the effort of having to buy and sell whole sets of wheels/tyres. We're probably just going to order a pair of NS2Rs for around £150 (from Ebay), and rotate the worn R1Rs to the rear. Reviews of these tyres (in both compound types) on lightweight hatches seem favourable. If we can get the softer compound, that would be ideal.
Now it's just a case of finding the time to do it!
Edited by C70R on Tuesday 9th August 09:42
Hol said:
You did indeed ask for advice as indicated in bold, before booking your first track day - very sensible.
I was one of those numerous people who advised a flat airfield with lots of run out and also said to ignore the idiots - (not just those on track it would seem).
Sage counsel, based on our experience. I'm very grateful.I was one of those numerous people who advised a flat airfield with lots of run out and also said to ignore the idiots - (not just those on track it would seem).
A brilliant day out at Woodbridge on Saturday, again impeccably organised by Javelin - albeit with a tiny bit less corporate 'slickness' than Bedford, but that's to be expected.
We approached the 'airfield' track with a bit of trepidation, with visions of debris and weed-strewn runways, rough/uneven surfaces and tricky 'coned' layout. The reality couldn't have been further from the truth!
The surface changes (tarmac to concrete, and back) provided some excellent challenges to adapt, and the snaking layout was both challenging yet easy to learn. The second-gear complex after the first long straight was a particular highlight in the 206, nudging the redline before braking hard and gently guiding the car between corners. We both got plenty of seat-time due to the modest attendance, and got progressively quicker and smoother as the day went on.
Even the weather decided to play ball. With "thundery showers" forecast, we'd prepared for the worst and brought umbrellas/waterproofs, but it transpired that we would only get two real showers all day. The first was a light shower early in the morning, which burned off pretty quickly, leaving us with a track which had plenty of differing grip levels - a proper challenge! The second was a monumental thunderstorm just after lunch, which we sat out (in our support E-Class with reclined seats) while the poor chap queuing to join the track in his Radical was bailing the water out!
A few passenger rides in a friend's 600bhp GTR reminded me of the difference between grip and GRIP on greasy surfaces, but it wasn't really the day to be pushing a £50k car to its limit. Having said that, this didn't seem to stop the guys in the 997 GT3, F-Type and M4 - they left shortly before lunch after one-too-many 'quiet words' from the (excellent) marshals. We didn't witness much bad driving from them, but to be in front of the 'beak' so many times suggests persistent indiscretion.
The group of MX5s seemed to be having a great time, as they hung on (with us) until the final chequered flag of the day - the award for 'first corner moment of the day' is probably somewhere between them and the chap in the super-loud M3. Other track-goers were generally courteous, albeit less chatty than at Bedford, and incidents were fairly minimal. Two red flags were the only downside to the day - one for a Puma with a broken balljoint, and one for a kit car which stopped early on in the lap.
The 206 performed faultlessly, as it was driven hard for 60-something laps during the course of the day. A slight blow in the exhaust (cracked weld) on the monster drive home was the only sign that it had been given a good workout. It will now be laid up over winter (MOT expires soon, and we're both super-busy with other things), to be dusted off and overhauled in the Spring, with a view to joining the Javelin sprint series.
To anyone considering sharing a track car - get on with it! It's the most fun I've had in almost 20 years of driving!
We approached the 'airfield' track with a bit of trepidation, with visions of debris and weed-strewn runways, rough/uneven surfaces and tricky 'coned' layout. The reality couldn't have been further from the truth!
The surface changes (tarmac to concrete, and back) provided some excellent challenges to adapt, and the snaking layout was both challenging yet easy to learn. The second-gear complex after the first long straight was a particular highlight in the 206, nudging the redline before braking hard and gently guiding the car between corners. We both got plenty of seat-time due to the modest attendance, and got progressively quicker and smoother as the day went on.
Even the weather decided to play ball. With "thundery showers" forecast, we'd prepared for the worst and brought umbrellas/waterproofs, but it transpired that we would only get two real showers all day. The first was a light shower early in the morning, which burned off pretty quickly, leaving us with a track which had plenty of differing grip levels - a proper challenge! The second was a monumental thunderstorm just after lunch, which we sat out (in our support E-Class with reclined seats) while the poor chap queuing to join the track in his Radical was bailing the water out!
A few passenger rides in a friend's 600bhp GTR reminded me of the difference between grip and GRIP on greasy surfaces, but it wasn't really the day to be pushing a £50k car to its limit. Having said that, this didn't seem to stop the guys in the 997 GT3, F-Type and M4 - they left shortly before lunch after one-too-many 'quiet words' from the (excellent) marshals. We didn't witness much bad driving from them, but to be in front of the 'beak' so many times suggests persistent indiscretion.
The group of MX5s seemed to be having a great time, as they hung on (with us) until the final chequered flag of the day - the award for 'first corner moment of the day' is probably somewhere between them and the chap in the super-loud M3. Other track-goers were generally courteous, albeit less chatty than at Bedford, and incidents were fairly minimal. Two red flags were the only downside to the day - one for a Puma with a broken balljoint, and one for a kit car which stopped early on in the lap.
The 206 performed faultlessly, as it was driven hard for 60-something laps during the course of the day. A slight blow in the exhaust (cracked weld) on the monster drive home was the only sign that it had been given a good workout. It will now be laid up over winter (MOT expires soon, and we're both super-busy with other things), to be dusted off and overhauled in the Spring, with a view to joining the Javelin sprint series.
To anyone considering sharing a track car - get on with it! It's the most fun I've had in almost 20 years of driving!
If anyone was interested (guessing not!), the 206 has now been SORN'd for the winter with the MOT expiry fast approaching (and our calendars quickly filling).
Some quick maths suggests that, including absolutely everything (from purchase of the car, to petrol, insurance and trackday entry), we've spent about £750 each to buy a car, do some basic repairs/upgrades and get along to two brilliant trackdays.
Frankly, after the experiences we've had, I can't think of anything I'd have rather spent the money on! In this short time we've already learned loads about our driving styles and (lack of) talent, and had a bloody good laugh to boot. The bug has well and truly bitten.
(less-than-impartial observers will be disappointed to hear that we're still friends)
Plans are simmering to fettle/tidy a little and enter a few early rounds of the Javelin Sprint Series next year (not sure if we'd be C3 or D3, based on "a few minor performance enhancements"), and see how competitive we are with the MX5s and Clios.
Thank you to everyone who weighed in with good advice in the early part of this thread.
Some quick maths suggests that, including absolutely everything (from purchase of the car, to petrol, insurance and trackday entry), we've spent about £750 each to buy a car, do some basic repairs/upgrades and get along to two brilliant trackdays.
Frankly, after the experiences we've had, I can't think of anything I'd have rather spent the money on! In this short time we've already learned loads about our driving styles and (lack of) talent, and had a bloody good laugh to boot. The bug has well and truly bitten.
(less-than-impartial observers will be disappointed to hear that we're still friends
)Plans are simmering to fettle/tidy a little and enter a few early rounds of the Javelin Sprint Series next year (not sure if we'd be C3 or D3, based on "a few minor performance enhancements"), and see how competitive we are with the MX5s and Clios.
Thank you to everyone who weighed in with good advice in the early part of this thread.
Edited by C70R on Friday 21st October 11:20
Hol said:
From a man maths perspective, that is a cheap way into a low risk track day lifestyle.
Xmas time there are some good track day bargains though.
Absolutely. I'd go so far as to say that it's cheap full-stop, and we've still got a car to show for it. In fact, I can't think of much (coke and hookers aside) that would be more fun for £750.Xmas time there are some good track day bargains though.
Humour said:
I have to catalogue all sorts of other stuff in daily life (work etc.) so why not something that I enjoy?
Say no more. A friend audits auditors for a living - you'd get on well. Had a quick peek at a couple of your Bedford videos, and there's some very tidy driving in there. However, the tyres are making an absolute racket compared with our track-specials - is that normal?
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