Track and occasional road car options - £5k

Track and occasional road car options - £5k

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C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

103 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
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TroubledSoul said:
Having owned various MR2s and test driven a 3.0si Z4 (and it was approved used so not a bargain basement car laugh) I just didn't find it entertaining.

The MR2 roadster, while slower, is actually far more rewarding to drive. The Z4 with its electric power steering etc. just wasn't that thrilling. And it was a real shame as I really wanted to love it.
Horses for courses, I suppose. I've driven the MR2 and MX5, and they are certainly much sharper tools out of the box. However, I'm not looking for the ultimate track scalpel, and the idea of a 3hr motorway schlep back from the track in a MR2/MX5 after a long day of driving fills me with dread. As with everything, it's a choice of compromise.

TroubledSoul

4,589 posts

193 months

Thursday 20th October 2016
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That's a fair point. As far as compromises go, the Z4 certainly isn't a bad compromise and I do still sort of long for one at some point. Will hopefully buy an M one day. I almost did, before choosing the WRX STI last time.

I'm going to be using the other Impreza for track work so hardly scalpel sharp itself smile

Craikeybaby

10,369 posts

224 months

Monday 24th October 2016
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There were a few Z4s out at Silverstone for the Sunday service, the first time I'd seen more Z4s than MX-5s on track!

C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

103 months

Wednesday 15th February 2017
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So... this didn't happen. Having the spent the past few months changing jobs, travelling and rebuilding a property, car buying took a back seat.

Having said all of that, it has been ticking away in the back of my mind throughout, and I've had one eye on a few Autotrader saved searches. Budget remains roughly the same - but I think I've softened a little on my idea of 'what car'. As I've ended up doing more road miles of late (probably due to the flat refurb), and wonder whether I might get more enjoyment out of something a bit more civilised (and a thread raving about FWD the other day opened my eyes to how quick it's possible to hustle a hot hatch - so I'll drive a couple with an open mind.

My BMW is getting MOT'd and will be up for sale shortly (98k, FSH, fresh MOT!), so I've narrowed down to the following bases for about £4k (plus £1.5k on brakes/suspension/seat/tyres):
  • Megane 225 (plus remap and shortshift)
  • R56 Cooper S (plus remap)
  • RX8 (with rebuild)
  • MX5 NC 2.0
I'm going to get out and test them all over the next couple of weeks, but I'm keen to hear experiences/thoughts of others who have driven or owned the above. After reading up on the Z4 and hearing owners complain about how poor the car is on track without an LSD, I've gone a bit cold on the idea.
The RX8 is probably the sweet-spot for me, but I'm having my head turned a little by the potential straightline pace of the two FWD cars and the lightness/comfort balance of the MX5.

Edited by C70R on Wednesday 15th February 16:00

Frimley111R

15,537 posts

233 months

Wednesday 15th February 2017
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Think you mean Megane R26? With your budget that's the one you should go for.

TroubledSoul

4,589 posts

193 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
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Some strange car choices there! biggrin

There are good FWD cars, but they will never be as dynamically rewarding as a good RWD car. You also need to give serious consideration to just how good you want the upgrades to be. Just upgrading to high performance discs and pads could easily set you back a grand and you will want one of the Corbeau or Cobra pro range seats if you're spending a lot of time in there. The cheapo stuff honestly isn't very good. No reason not to buy a used seat on ebay etc. but unless you get lucky that's likely £200 - £250 each. Sliding rails to fit said seats will be extra, probably £150 each again.

Add to that a decent set of coilovers at £800 plus then replacing things like bushes, track rod ends, servicing it etc. and it all soon mounts up. If you plan to do it all over time then it's easy enough, bit by bit, but don't fool yourself that throwing £1.5k at a car will turn it into an awesome track machine.

This is all from my own experience and not meant as negative, I just wish I'd realised beforehand exactly what I was getting myself into! thumbup

loggyboy

279 posts

177 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
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TroubledSoul said:
Some strange car choices there! biggrin

There are good FWD cars, but they will never be as dynamically rewarding as a good RWD car. You also need to give serious consideration to just how good you want the upgrades to be. Just upgrading to high performance discs and pads could easily set you back a grand and you will want one of the Corbeau or Cobra pro range seats if you're spending a lot of time in there. The cheapo stuff honestly isn't very good. No reason not to buy a used seat on ebay etc. but unless you get lucky that's likely £200 - £250 each. Sliding rails to fit said seats will be extra, probably £150 each again.

Add to that a decent set of coilovers at £800 plus then replacing things like bushes, track rod ends, servicing it etc. and it all soon mounts up. If you plan to do it all over time then it's easy enough, bit by bit, but don't fool yourself that throwing £1.5k at a car will turn it into an awesome track machine.

This is all from my own experience and not meant as negative, I just wish I'd realised beforehand exactly what I was getting myself into! thumbup
Couldnt argue more on the RWD/FWD - as discussed here http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... - and a copy/paste my reasonsings: Theres a lot to be said for FWD fun, its a different sort of fun, ive had some experience with RWD on track and road (a lot less than in FWD tho) and it just makes me want to drift, as that seems to be the best way to enjoy the type of driving it gives. However with FWD the buzz comes from getting it right and the occasional unintended slides.

I do agree on the money side - and if the OP has a 5k budget, I would do half and half on car/upgrades, unless you are sure the car you are buying has some of those upgrades already (specifically the OE suspension/geometry components).

I went with an even more tight budget for mine - £1k on high mileage clio 182 with lots of history and receipts inc for recent genuine wishbones/track arms etc. Known gearbox fault which cost £100 to sort, Then £500 on coilovers, £100 on 15" wheels, £100 on branded OE discs & pads and a good service. Running costs are a set of track tyres every year (4-5 track days a year) new oil after every other TD and usually pads at same time, £50 on recovery too!. Adds up to about £500 a year not inc fuel and breakdowns. Bar-gain.

C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

103 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
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TroubledSoul said:
You also need to give serious consideration to just how good you want the upgrades to be. Just upgrading to high performance discs and pads could easily set you back a grand and you will want one of the Corbeau or Cobra pro range seats if you're spending a lot of time in there. The cheapo stuff honestly isn't very good. No reason not to buy a used seat on ebay etc. but unless you get lucky that's likely £200 - £250 each. Sliding rails to fit said seats will be extra, probably £150 each again.
To be honest, unlike many, I'm not in this to create something that is pretending to be a racecar. I trackday because I enjoy driving, not because I want to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of the car - that's for racers. I'm not trying to build a car that will spawn a 30pg thread of cooing in Readers' Cars - I just want something I can enjoy driving.
Spending a grand on coilovers probably won't give me significantly more pleasure than a budget set. Likewise, with FIA-approved bucket seats available from £250 and sidemounts from £50, there's no reason to splash out megabucks for a brandname.

CABC

5,533 posts

100 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
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C70R said:
To be honest, unlike many, I'm not in this to create something that is pretending to be a racecar. I trackday because I enjoy driving, not because I want to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of the car - that's for racers. I'm not trying to build a car that will spawn a 30pg thread of cooing in Readers' Cars - I just want something I can enjoy driving.
Spending a grand on coilovers probably won't give me significantly more pleasure than a budget set. Likewise, with FIA-approved bucket seats available from £250 and sidemounts from £50, there's no reason to splash out megabucks for a brandname.
i get this completely. but upgraditis is still contagious!
Except when in a tussle with someone, i typically rest the car on the long straights enjoying the corners, not chasing lap times and preserving the old girl. But i've still invested in modifying, not for show but for sheer driving enjoyment. The development has been a journey. Not essential but money happily spent (and never to be recovered). Now i'm a few years into this, i would say that good coilovers aren't cheap but are the best £ i spent. Chassis bracing had a pronounced effect and surprised me (not expensive either). Light wheels good, you can feel the difference. A good seat is important so you feel everything but be comfortable.

Only now am i upping the power, and that's primarily because at the bigger circuits i'd prefer to keep my position in the field. That's not for a bruised ego but rather to avoid swapping places every half lap with cars that are more point'n'squirt. There's always slower or faster cars, but on a busy Dony or Oulton you enjoy less flow if you're too slow on the straight. A faster car also provides more of a technical challenge with corner entry too.

You can have great fun for £500 i agree, but hey....

TroubledSoul

4,589 posts

193 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
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C70R said:
To be honest, unlike many, I'm not in this to create something that is pretending to be a racecar. I trackday because I enjoy driving, not because I want to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of the car - that's for racers. I'm not trying to build a car that will spawn a 30pg thread of cooing in Readers' Cars - I just want something I can enjoy driving.
Spending a grand on coilovers probably won't give me significantly more pleasure than a budget set. Likewise, with FIA-approved bucket seats available from £250 and sidemounts from £50, there's no reason to splash out megabucks for a brandname.
That's all fair enough, but you can get a set of HSD MonoPro coilovers for just over £800 and these piss on cheapo eBay coilovers and any of the non monotube BCs etc. You have misunderstood me somewhat though, as yes you can get cheap seats etc. but the point I was making there is that the Pro Series type of seat are way more comfortable and if you are daily driving this car that's something worth considering. Cheap coilovers giving you a horrid crashy ride will come back to haunt you, should you go that route. thumbup

C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

103 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
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CABC said:
You can have great fun for £500 i agree, but hey....
I spent less than this to buy half a trackday car and get along to several days in 2016. And I laughed my ass off the entire time. Trackdays are the best example of diminishing returns I can possible think of, in entertainment terms.

CABC

5,533 posts

100 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
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C70R said:
I spent less than this to buy half a trackday car and get along to several days in 2016. And I laughed my ass off the entire time. Trackdays are the best example of diminishing returns I can possible think of, in entertainment terms.
Diminishing returns in most things in life.
I don't get much return if i spend 5X more in a good restaurant over a good gastro pub either. But i can taste and appreciate the difference.
I just need more money!

pespro

108 posts

115 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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Interesting reading on the options available.

I am looking for a track car as well. But i was going to wait until i have my own house so i can get a trailer and use that, instead of driving to the track in the track car itself.

Another issue i have, is i have no mechnical knowledge at all. I can change a tyre and top up fluids, but if my track car stopped working, id have no idea on what is wrong or how to fix it. It's not anyone elses business to help me fix it either on the day.

Would you guys suggest waiting a few years until i get my own home and car trailer so that if the worst happens i can get the car on the trailer and still get home?
I have been on experience days where you get to drive supercars. I have taken my own C63 to Cadwell about 4 years ago, enjoyed it but could only manage half a day, weight just killed my tyres and brakes.

docter fox

593 posts

234 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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OP, not sure if you're going to the Silverstone Sunday service but if I can't get the Clio 182 sorted, I'll be on track in my 3.0 Z4 for the first time.

rex

2,051 posts

265 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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As a long time track day enthusiast in a well track prepared e36 M3 I recently took my MR2 turbo on the track. Has a few mods and almost considered keeping it and selling the M3. In the end felt that it was too nice to really start messing about with it and ruining a perfectly good road car that took me to the Shetlands and back on a road trip.

On the track it was great fun and more challenging to drive than the M3. Smooth driving is a must to keep the balance of the car. When you get it right it rewards with a lovely feel. You have to be accurate with steering inputs and braking and be careful on the turn in as the back can come round, but get it right and it hunts the apex much better than the M3 and a small slide powering out of the turn is easy to hold.

Standard brakes are a bit weedy and would be the first upgrade on one of these. Mine has a number of mods including better springs and dampers. Heating not an issue and allowing a decent cool down lap saw no problems occurring.


baronbennyt

900 posts

95 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
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Personally, although I know the car is not for everyone, I would go for an MX5 and modify it with BBR. Indeed, I think that would be half the fun: season-by-season upgrading the tyres, brakes, suspension, engine etc.

I just re-watched the EVO Track Car of the Year 2014 video and couldn't help but smile after 8mins 25secs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxNf8V50Ja4

TroubledSoul

4,589 posts

193 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
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rex said:
As a long time track day enthusiast in a well track prepared e36 M3 I recently took my MR2 turbo on the track. Has a few mods and almost considered keeping it and selling the M3. In the end felt that it was too nice to really start messing about with it and ruining a perfectly good road car that took me to the Shetlands and back on a road trip.

On the track it was great fun and more challenging to drive than the M3. Smooth driving is a must to keep the balance of the car. When you get it right it rewards with a lovely feel. You have to be accurate with steering inputs and braking and be careful on the turn in as the back can come round, but get it right and it hunts the apex much better than the M3 and a small slide powering out of the turn is easy to hold.

Standard brakes are a bit weedy and would be the first upgrade on one of these. Mine has a number of mods including better springs and dampers. Heating not an issue and allowing a decent cool down lap saw no problems occurring.
I miss my MR2 Turbo(s). Fantastic cars. Have to say though, you could turbo a MK3 Roadster for a few grand and the MK2 would never catch it around a track. Absolutely superb handling cars. If I keep mine after the summer I might go down that route!

Furyblade_Lee

4,107 posts

223 months

Monday 27th February 2017
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I'd be considering a PZ Prodrive version of the Maxda RX8 and then getting as much weight out of the thing as possible, and there is quite a bit to come out!!! Our 100% stock one laps Brands Indy in 59.5 which is over a second quicker than we can peddle the 172 Cup round, but more importantly it is HUGELY more fun than the Clio. Proper RWD dynamics with the traction control off. I imagine there is a 57 second car in there with List 1B tyres and the leather and Bose removed!! It has been ragged for 3 years sprinting / hillclimbing and trackdays and it has been 100% reliable. £3k will get you a tidy one. Oh, and even stock they pop, bang and shoot flames out on full bore upshifts.

Bright Halo

2,950 posts

234 months

Tuesday 28th February 2017
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The PZ RX8 is great cheap way into track days.
The special thing with the PZ was its unique Bilstein suspension set up by Prodrive. This unfortunately has turned into its Achilles heel as you can no longer source these exact damper and spring set ups. With PZ's coming up to 11 years old they will no doubt be tired in the area so you maybe better off sorting a standard RX8 going down the coilovers rout.