Track and occasional road car options - £5k

[C70R]

Furyblade_Lee said:

Boxster? Trackday? Cheap??? Ha ha ha ha ha

This did bother me initially, to be honest. However, after a bit of research I don't see how many of the major consumables of the 2.7 (brakes, tyres and service parts) would be significantly higher than that of something like an S2000.
I'd consider myself pretty unlucky to get hit by something like Porsche-specific like IMS failure (I don't buy into the internet doom-mongering), and most cars at this level have potential to break if used properly.

[egor110]

If you go to track days the majority of the 'cheaper' cars (and i don't say that as a piss take ) are mx5's and clio's.

Because they are affordable to run and reliable.

[C70R]

egor110 said:

If you go to track days the majority of the 'cheaper' cars (and i don't say that as a piss take ) are mx5's and clio's.

Because they are affordable to run and reliable.

Absolutely. However, I've already got a "cheaper" track car. I want something I can use a few times a year on track (not dedicated) if I decide to sprint/hillclimb my track car next year, and won't be a massive pain to use on the road.

It doesn't need to be stripped to the nth degree or polybushed to death - but it needs to be fun and capable on track. If I could fit comfortably and had the spare cash, I'd be buying an Elise. As it is, I'm trying to recreate the Elise experience for £5-6k.

[Pulse]

Mk3 MR2, without a doubt. Spend some money on a proper geo, and you'll be away!

Start off with a standard one, and then if the engine blows up, take that as an opportunity to change to 2ZZ. Rogue Motorsport do conversions all the time, and would be a good starting point.

[C70R]

Pulse said:

Mk3 MR2, without a doubt. Spend some money on a proper geo, and you'll be away!

Start off with a standard one, and then if the engine blows up, take that as an opportunity to change to 2ZZ. Rogue Motorsport do conversions all the time, and would be a good starting point.

I can absolutely see the appeal, believe me. To be honest, I know I wouldn't get a huge amount of pleasure out of the bog-stock performance, so it would need to be a 2ZZ to be on-par with the S2000 or the Boxster. The only slight challenge is finding someone to take me out in a 2ZZ...

[Pulse]

C70R said:

I can absolutely see the appeal, believe me. To be honest, I know I wouldn't get a huge amount of pleasure out of the bog-stock performance, so it would need to be a 2ZZ to be on-par with the S2000 or the Boxster. The only slight challenge is finding someone to take me out in a 2ZZ...

Pop yourself on to MR2ROC. It's a very, very good forum, and plenty of people on there have the 2ZZ. A few people there with turbo'd 1ZZs as well. No supercharged 2ZZs that I'm aware of, just in case that was also of interest.

[e36er]

That's approximately 100kg less than my S54 engined e36. How on earth has he managed to get it down to 1030kg?!

iguana said:

It's not a big IF at all, sub 1000kg is pos easy, was with a 1030kg caged e36 m3 today, proper cage, proper car & m3 engine & m3 bits are heavier than a 2.8 engine & bits.

Mx5 is far more tactile.

S2000 always disappointed me.

[Frimley111R]

Not going to add to the suggestions other than to say the other big issue is costs to run a car. My old Elise cost next to nothing in extra running costs on track as it was so light it just didn't wear stuff out much. By comparison bigger heavier cars can eat up tyres and brakes at an alarming rate. So, I'd recommend anything lightweight and there's loads of other suggestions on eBay.

[C70R]

Frimley111R said:

Not going to add to the suggestions other than to say the other big issue is costs to run a car. My old Elise cost next to nothing in extra running costs on track as it was so light it just didn't wear stuff out much. By comparison bigger heavier cars can eat up tyres and brakes at an alarming rate. So, I'd recommend anything lightweight and there's loads of other suggestions on eBay.

Thanks for the input. As mentioned (a few times) I've already got a 'lightweight' dedicated track/sprint car, so this is much more of a hybrid. If it's only doing a few trackdays a year, I can't imagine any of those on the list costing thousands in consumables.

[C70R]

You know what, even though I'd looked at the Z4 a while ago, I would have never considered taking one on track. Straight-line performance seems reasonable, if not setting the world on fire (14sec 1/4 mile puts it in line with the 2.7 Boxster, S2000 and 2ZZ MR2), and the video below suggests that they go pretty well relative to the facelift 986 (in the opinion of a couple of ex-racers).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIx96IC8wgY

[Babw]

C70R said:

You know what, even though I'd looked at the Z4 a while ago, I would have never considered taking one on track. Straight-line performance seems reasonable, if not setting the world on fire (14sec 1/4 mile puts it in line with the 2.7 Boxster, S2000 and 2ZZ MR2), and the video below suggests that they go pretty well relative to the facelift 986 (in the opinion of a couple of ex-racers).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIx96IC8wgY

I owned that exact Z4 for a few years - RJ04PXM. Did a few track friendly mods - AST coilovers, Drexler LSD, generic K sport brakes and R888's. It was extremely fun and involving. Like most BMW's the chassis is pretty good and with a few mods to loosen the overly safe/understeer prone stock settings they become a good drivers car.

I actually sold it to buy a Z4M as a daily but if it came on the market would definitely buy it back and track it.

[CABC]

Babw said:

I owned that exact Z4 for a few years - RJ04PXM. Did a few track friendly mods - AST coilovers, Drexler LSD, generic K sport brakes and R888's. It was extremely fun and involving. Like most BMW's the chassis is pretty good and with a few mods to loosen the overly safe/understeer prone stock settings they become a good drivers car.

I actually sold it to buy a Z4M as a daily but if it came on the market would definitely buy it back and track it.

interesting. i'm one of those that doesn't rate the Z4 chassis as it comes out the box. But a few mods can release what should be good underpinnings. Just shows we need to drive several examples of any car and be ready to invest if the car at least has potential.

[SidewaysSi]

I am going down the path of modifying my E36 coupe. It is not going to be a track car but a well resolved, sharp road car. Seems a good base to be honest. Mods will probably include :

15" wheels
PAS delete
LSD
Bilstein B10 kit
M3 bushes
Top mounts
New steering wheel
Vibratechnics engine mounts
X brace

Etc.

Probably best part of £4-5k being chucked at it but I think it should be great..
Replaced the 16" wheels with 15" today and it already feels a lot better.

[Bright Halo]

SidewaysSi said:

I am going down the path of modifying my E36 coupe. It is not going to be a track car but a well resolved, sharp road car. Seems a good base to be honest. Mods will probably include :

15" wheels
PAS delete
LSD
Bilstein B10 kit
M3 bushes
Top mounts
New steering wheel
Vibratechnics engine mounts
X brace

Etc.

Probably best part of £4-5k being chucked at it but I think it should be great..
Replaced the 16" wheels with 15" today and it already feels a lot better.

I reckon you would have a good track day car there. Rear drive is the key to me for fun on track. Unless you are spending 100k + there will always be something quicker so just enjoy and challenge yourself!

[Smokey32]

Iam also looking for a track toy, that's reasonable to run.

ive done 2x novice days at Oulton Park with MSV and I just don't want to my C55 anymore, and while it was a lot of fun and really quick on the straights its too dam heavy. Problem is ive got the bug now.

Id like something that's almost as quick and cheap, and I don't think its going to happen. It monstered boxsters, and lotus elises, etc I was impressed how fast a RX-8 was, it was fully stripped out and track tyres to be fair, but it was dam fast. Could be tempted by one of those, or was thinking a westfield as they seem fairly cheap, but I know nothing about them.

[C70R]

Well, the more I thought about this, the further I turned myself around in circles! So, after a couple of testdrives, I've settled on a Z4. Yes, that's right - it wasn't even in my OP!

My thought process went as follows... (deep breath)
Performance
I'm a novice, and happy to admit that I'm at the bottom of the learning curve at the moment. Therefore, I probably won't get much benefit from a stripped-out, balls-to-the-wall, polybushed-to-death, 500bhp track car.
This ruled out the MR2 Turbo, Impreza and the E36.

Comfort
I think I had underestimated the importance of this, even though it's not a car that will be doing the supermarket run. The 3hr schlep back from RAF Woodbridge in my 206 on Saturday reminded me that living in the middle of London means long motorway drives to/from almost all venues. On the basis that I can't accommodate a trailer (nowhere to keep it), I need a track car in which I can turn on cruise/aircon/stereo and get home after a day's exertions without needing a sports massage.
As a result, from experience, this ruled out the MR2 and MX5 on a combination of fit (I'm tall) and refinement.

Reliability/Cost
As a result of the above, I came back to the trio of Boxster (2.7), Z4 (3.0) and S2000. All would seem to tick the Performance and Comfort balance. All would respond well to some gentle modification (suspension, brakes, seat, tyres etc.). All offer top-down motoring. All would be usable and enjoyable when I'm not on track.
I'm saving hard to buy another house at the moment, so budgets are a consideration. This ruled the S2000 out pretty quickly, based on what seemed to be available at my price point. A shame, but I didn't love it enough to spend the extra grand or so.
This left a straight shootout between the Boxster and the Z4 - a classic case of "Heart vs Head". Truthfully, no matter how hard I tried to convince myself, I just couldn't avoid the significantly higher risk of big bills that comes with using a Boxster hard and infrequently. A pity, because I love the way the 986 looks and drives, but probably the right decision on balance.

On reflection, what have I ended up with? A compromise, I suppose. The overriding thought was: if it can offer me 95% of the experience I'd get with a Boxster (I doubt I'm a good enough driver to spot the difference) with 90% of the risk, I'm onto a winner.
For me, the Z4 represents a more grown-up version of the Mk3 MX5 (a car I'm very fond of). It's a bit quicker in a straight line, it's a bit heavier, and it's a bit more refined (heated seats, stereo, 6spd etc.).
The oily bits are lifted straight from the E46/E39, so not only is it easy to DIY but spare parts are plentiful and reasonably-priced. There are active community forums here and in the US, so many common problems/modifications have been covered.
It's definitely not the last word in performance, but it's got a low centre of gravity, a power/weight ratio in the ballpark of things like the E30 M3 and Megane R26 (no slouches either!) and plenty of options to sharpen up the chassis.


Well done if you made it this far!
I've got a few bits to finish off on my E46 over the next couple of months, so I'm aiming to go hunting for a Z4 in Jan/Feb time in the hope of getting a winter bargain. I'll pop back and update this when I get the chance.

Edited by C70R on Wednesday 5th October 11:22

[Frimley111R]

Sounds like you've made a very good decision!

[NJH]

Certainly + there is a lot to be said for cars being more enjoyable ownership propositions if you will use them more often, as opposed to dedicated track/race cars that can end up being used as little as a handful of times a year.

[Craikeybaby]

I thought you could get heated seats, stereo & 6 speed box in a mk3 MX-5. I thought mine was very refined, I did a few 1500+ mile trips in mine. I'd also have thought it would be a better track car than the Z4. My mate actually had a mk3 2.0 Sport and a Z4 3.0 at the same time, he got rid of the BMW as the Mazda was way more fun to drive.

[NJH]

True ours had all that but it was one of those cars that was only enjoyable roof down. Refined only at low to medium speed IMHO as it gets very noisy at speed, we also did some long touring trips in it which I have fond memories of but its not for all folks. Honestly the two biggest problems I had with it were the engine (in no way a sports car engine) and the suspension but both of those could be modified for an occasional use track car to make something pretty fantastic + cheap to run. I miss ours and it was a pure road car for the wife.