whats techniques to use to go as fast as possible
Discussion
What is precisely the fastest way to drive around the track, what I mean is should you be revmatching when downshifting and is it better to go through the gears or say revmatch straight downfrom 5th to 3rd.
When cornering are you going faster if the tyres are squealing or faster when they are not, and is a little bit of oversteer in the corner detremental to the fastest lap time, what I mean is ass out when exiting.
And stuff like scandinavian flick , is this good to go fastest, and what about trail braking? or left foot braking?
Given all these different variables wwhats the fastest approach, I know the fact is the racing line is fastest, im just more interested in the physics of the way the car is moving around the corners etc..
When cornering are you going faster if the tyres are squealing or faster when they are not, and is a little bit of oversteer in the corner detremental to the fastest lap time, what I mean is ass out when exiting.
And stuff like scandinavian flick , is this good to go fastest, and what about trail braking? or left foot braking?
Given all these different variables wwhats the fastest approach, I know the fact is the racing line is fastest, im just more interested in the physics of the way the car is moving around the corners etc..
A bit of a simple question really.
Who are the fastest people round any given track?
Racing drivers.
Do you see them doing any of what you describe?
No.
You or I may go round a certain corner in certain (out of control) conditions but then over a complex of corners we would be playing catch-up.
Keep it tidy & smooth and on the correct line, although that line can change with conditions.
Who are the fastest people round any given track?
Racing drivers.
Do you see them doing any of what you describe?
No.
You or I may go round a certain corner in certain (out of control) conditions but then over a complex of corners we would be playing catch-up.
Keep it tidy & smooth and on the correct line, although that line can change with conditions.
Bit of a nonsensical question, but also a bit of a simplistic response. The correct answer is, 'it depends':
It depends on the car, and the circumstances.
Left foot braking can be used to settle a car, it can be used to rotate an understeering (typically FWD) car, or simply to get on the brakes faster. If you have a 3 pedal car it's a lot to get a handle on.
Trail braking can really help control weight transfer and get some cars into the apex
Flicks and big sideways are generally for loose surfaces.
If you're over tyred and under powered neat and tidy is critical; sweeping lines to maintain speed. If the reverse is true, being a bit sideways can be effective. Getting it stopped, turned and straightened early to enhance traction can also be effective.
Block shifting is meh.. do whatever works. So long as you can manage the car under braking and be in the right gear to drive off, it doesn't matter.
All of these things can change during a session. The fastest racing drivers are the ones that can adapt their approach as the circumstances change, tyres go off, tracks rubber in and so on.
It depends on the car, and the circumstances.
Left foot braking can be used to settle a car, it can be used to rotate an understeering (typically FWD) car, or simply to get on the brakes faster. If you have a 3 pedal car it's a lot to get a handle on.
Trail braking can really help control weight transfer and get some cars into the apex
Flicks and big sideways are generally for loose surfaces.
If you're over tyred and under powered neat and tidy is critical; sweeping lines to maintain speed. If the reverse is true, being a bit sideways can be effective. Getting it stopped, turned and straightened early to enhance traction can also be effective.
Block shifting is meh.. do whatever works. So long as you can manage the car under braking and be in the right gear to drive off, it doesn't matter.
All of these things can change during a session. The fastest racing drivers are the ones that can adapt their approach as the circumstances change, tyres go off, tracks rubber in and so on.
I guess a good starting point is 'slow in fast out' . Learn the track, figure out where the apex is in the corner and when you get the power down.
As said it depends on the car and conditions as to how you approach it, but generally rule of thumb on tarmac is lost grip or traction is lost momentum. So no drifting about if you want to go fast, be smooth instead.
Project Cars is free on Xbox live games with gold later thus month, you can learn a lot of the basic principles from games like that, especially if you have a wheel and pedal set up.
As said it depends on the car and conditions as to how you approach it, but generally rule of thumb on tarmac is lost grip or traction is lost momentum. So no drifting about if you want to go fast, be smooth instead.
Project Cars is free on Xbox live games with gold later thus month, you can learn a lot of the basic principles from games like that, especially if you have a wheel and pedal set up.
When you find out the solution, in a few words, to 'the fastest way to drive a car around a track', please let me know because I have been testing and racing for five seasons and trackdaying for several more and I haven't yet found the one-size-fits-all shortcut to fastness. Unfortunately it seems to have a lot to do with skill and understanding of car, circuit and conditions- and these things come only with practice / experience.
Lots of good advice here.
Couple of points:
1) Every Time you break traction (arse out oversteer or plowing locked up understeer) you are hurting your tyres; flat spotting under braking or overheating and damaging the compound under acceleration. Depending on precise compound and tread pattern you can try and bring them back but generally to be avoided; smooth is almost always better.
2) A race tyre is very sticky; if you're getting "squeal" it's because you have broken traction and more often than not thats due to coming in too hot. A shaved road tyre won't give you as much grip, but again "squeal" = bad. Tall, big block road tyres (e.g. a brand new tyre with wide rain channels in it) will "squeal" under cornering as the blocks themselves move, but again we are talking a low "scree" type noise rather than smoke and thunder.... the main thing to look for (from trackside) is the yaw of the car (rotation around centre); should look like it is cornering, not drifting
Exceptions as always, but this is a general rule.
3) Heel and Toe technique is probably the most critical thing to learn and can be safely practiced on the road; followed closely by trail breaking (this second one I personally feel is better off being taught than self-taught so you understand when to use it - it's not something for every corner). Avoid left foot braking.... seriously, very easy to get it wrong/get flustered and very, very little gain on a track. Unless you are doing it often you won't have the right level of feel in your left leg and you'll just end up locking up/in barrier (yes, as someone else mentioned it can be used to induce rotation in FWD but honestly, if you are plowing into the corner all understeery time better spent getting the entry right next time).
4) Flicks and handbrakes are for loose surfaces, not tracks.
5) 'slow in, fast out' is how you start to learn; eventually you'll progress, but when starting off it's best to be slower on entry then coming in all crossed up. This way you can learn the lines quicker.
6) Skipping gears generally not advised; you won't save any time doing it and the supposed gains (less operations to perform, less to unsettle the car by changing driving/braking forces less) won't materialise as you'll overthink it and cock up something else. Stick to clean rowing of the box with heel and toe.
7) There is no substitute - none - for putting down some miles to learn the track. Each and every track has it's vagarities.... cambers, humps and yumps, kerbs, apexes etc that need to be learnt. Once you have a basic toolkit of technique banked in your head, what carries you forward is your experience of when to apply each.
As always, exceptions apply to all of the above! I'm making some assumptions here about your level of track experience and trying to offer something that should be good to 9/10's.
Couple of points:
1) Every Time you break traction (arse out oversteer or plowing locked up understeer) you are hurting your tyres; flat spotting under braking or overheating and damaging the compound under acceleration. Depending on precise compound and tread pattern you can try and bring them back but generally to be avoided; smooth is almost always better.
2) A race tyre is very sticky; if you're getting "squeal" it's because you have broken traction and more often than not thats due to coming in too hot. A shaved road tyre won't give you as much grip, but again "squeal" = bad. Tall, big block road tyres (e.g. a brand new tyre with wide rain channels in it) will "squeal" under cornering as the blocks themselves move, but again we are talking a low "scree" type noise rather than smoke and thunder.... the main thing to look for (from trackside) is the yaw of the car (rotation around centre); should look like it is cornering, not drifting
Exceptions as always, but this is a general rule.3) Heel and Toe technique is probably the most critical thing to learn and can be safely practiced on the road; followed closely by trail breaking (this second one I personally feel is better off being taught than self-taught so you understand when to use it - it's not something for every corner). Avoid left foot braking.... seriously, very easy to get it wrong/get flustered and very, very little gain on a track. Unless you are doing it often you won't have the right level of feel in your left leg and you'll just end up locking up/in barrier (yes, as someone else mentioned it can be used to induce rotation in FWD but honestly, if you are plowing into the corner all understeery time better spent getting the entry right next time).
4) Flicks and handbrakes are for loose surfaces, not tracks.
5) 'slow in, fast out' is how you start to learn; eventually you'll progress, but when starting off it's best to be slower on entry then coming in all crossed up. This way you can learn the lines quicker.
6) Skipping gears generally not advised; you won't save any time doing it and the supposed gains (less operations to perform, less to unsettle the car by changing driving/braking forces less) won't materialise as you'll overthink it and cock up something else. Stick to clean rowing of the box with heel and toe.
7) There is no substitute - none - for putting down some miles to learn the track. Each and every track has it's vagarities.... cambers, humps and yumps, kerbs, apexes etc that need to be learnt. Once you have a basic toolkit of technique banked in your head, what carries you forward is your experience of when to apply each.
As always, exceptions apply to all of the above! I'm making some assumptions here about your level of track experience and trying to offer something that should be good to 9/10's.
Get a good book on the theory of driving, that'll help your understanding a lot.
I've been reading "Ultimate Speed Secrets" by Ross Bentley and the first half of the book breaks a lot of the theory down into a way you can consciously digest during driving.
There are a lot of things that seem obvious, but it's helpful to be broken down into a granular fashion and the rest will be a case of "Oh yeah, that makes sense".
I've been reading "Ultimate Speed Secrets" by Ross Bentley and the first half of the book breaks a lot of the theory down into a way you can consciously digest during driving.
There are a lot of things that seem obvious, but it's helpful to be broken down into a granular fashion and the rest will be a case of "Oh yeah, that makes sense".
I'd agree with a lot of the above comments, not so much with a few of them.
But.
Without knowing your current level of experience I suspect there's a lot of what you're asking (and what's being suggested) that may well be irrelevant.
Some of your questions might suggest a lack of actual prior track driving; nothing wrong with that (we all had to start sometime) but getting on track more and getting some tuition would probably help to answer a lot of your questions.
But.
Without knowing your current level of experience I suspect there's a lot of what you're asking (and what's being suggested) that may well be irrelevant.
Some of your questions might suggest a lack of actual prior track driving; nothing wrong with that (we all had to start sometime) but getting on track more and getting some tuition would probably help to answer a lot of your questions.
I agree with much of the above, I like the Ross Bentley books too.
In general understand what you're trying to achieve with a technique. Good race drivers won't need to use most of these in a properly setup car but they will know how. Sometimes a technique may be appropriate for a very particular car/corner/condition.
e.g. In my rwd car the brake bias is not adjustable but you can use technique to get around that somewhat.
In the wet you don't get the same weight transfer to the front of the car so ideally need more braking at the rear. To achieve that I'll go down through each gear 4-3-2 changing optimally early (so the lower gear comes in at high revs) - this is to maximise engine braking at the rear. Same car and corner in the dry I would go 4 straight to 2 and change later (lower revs) as the front is doing most of the braking and the rear is really light - and any more braking can make it unstable and I wan't to minimise time with the clutch disengaged.
In general understand what you're trying to achieve with a technique. Good race drivers won't need to use most of these in a properly setup car but they will know how. Sometimes a technique may be appropriate for a very particular car/corner/condition.
e.g. In my rwd car the brake bias is not adjustable but you can use technique to get around that somewhat.
In the wet you don't get the same weight transfer to the front of the car so ideally need more braking at the rear. To achieve that I'll go down through each gear 4-3-2 changing optimally early (so the lower gear comes in at high revs) - this is to maximise engine braking at the rear. Same car and corner in the dry I would go 4 straight to 2 and change later (lower revs) as the front is doing most of the braking and the rear is really light - and any more braking can make it unstable and I wan't to minimise time with the clutch disengaged.
some great replies and insight about track driving.
What I can take from all this is just go out there and get the experience and learn all the things myself and see how it all works.
My experience level is beginner, but I am going to start doing trackdays this year, I have an MX5 and also ride a suzuki gs550, so the world is my oyster really.
What I can take from all this is just go out there and get the experience and learn all the things myself and see how it all works.
My experience level is beginner, but I am going to start doing trackdays this year, I have an MX5 and also ride a suzuki gs550, so the world is my oyster really.
Fastest way around a track?
Get instruction - it costs £20 for 20 minutes on a track day.
My racing driver friend Mat can get his under-powered road car around a race track faster than I can get mine, with twice the power.
Because he is a good driver and knows how to carry speed through the corners.
Get instruction - it costs £20 for 20 minutes on a track day.
My racing driver friend Mat can get his under-powered road car around a race track faster than I can get mine, with twice the power.
Because he is a good driver and knows how to carry speed through the corners.
I've been lucky enough to have instruction from a professional racing driver i.e. Someone that makes a living from racing cars.
The difference in instruction between the pro and other's is huge. I found it hugely useful as it contradicted everything I'd been taught previously and so much of what you read online.
It didn't make me much quicker but did make me realise how crap I was and how talented the pro's are!
The difference in instruction between the pro and other's is huge. I found it hugely useful as it contradicted everything I'd been taught previously and so much of what you read online.
It didn't make me much quicker but did make me realise how crap I was and how talented the pro's are!
git-r said:
I've been lucky enough to have instruction from a professional racing driver i.e. Someone that makes a living from racing cars.
The difference in instruction between the pro and other's is huge. I found it hugely useful as it contradicted everything I'd been taught previously and so much of what you read online.
It didn't make me much quicker but did make me realise how crap I was and how talented the pro's are!
Sure are. http://www.motorsportdays.com/2016/02/pro-vs-clubm...The difference in instruction between the pro and other's is huge. I found it hugely useful as it contradicted everything I'd been taught previously and so much of what you read online.
It didn't make me much quicker but did make me realise how crap I was and how talented the pro's are!
Do not underestimate plain old reading aswell, "speed secrets" as mentioend above is an example. To understand what and why you should do stuff is a good way to make fast progress whn you are actually in the drivers seat.
One thing that isnt mentioned yet is datalogging, even a simple GPS logger app (like race chrono) coupled to a 5 or 10hz GPS bluetooth dongle can be a huge help. Especially if you can have an instructor or some other talented driver drive your car on track. Comparing logs afterwards can be a real eye opener, and really helpful aswell.
One thing that isnt mentioned yet is datalogging, even a simple GPS logger app (like race chrono) coupled to a 5 or 10hz GPS bluetooth dongle can be a huge help. Especially if you can have an instructor or some other talented driver drive your car on track. Comparing logs afterwards can be a real eye opener, and really helpful aswell.
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