1st track day on an unmodified car?

1st track day on an unmodified car?

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Discussion

chrispwill

Original Poster:

177 posts

123 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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Hi all,

I've been considering doing my first track day sometime soon, I'd be splitting the driving and costs with a mate.

I've got an Focus ST Mk2, I'm wondering if it's generally accepted to just run a car without having had any modifications for the track? It's had a recent oil change, has Eagle F1s and standard OEM brakes, am I going to run into problems with brakes overheating etc?

Would just like some general advice, and what to expect with regards to the 1st track day and the fact my car is standard.

Thanks

scjgreen

571 posts

133 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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I wouldn't worry too much about the car... Brake wise it might be worth swapping out the standard discs and pads for some performance items, also uprated brake fluid would be a good idea.

What i'd be more concerned about is it sounds like your friend will be also driving your car on track?

If he stacks it do you have adequate insurance in place? What happens if Engine Damage occurs while hes driving?
Make sure you have a plan in place for this.

Digitalize

2,850 posts

134 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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Depends on the track but as long as the brake fluid is fresh you should be fine, especially if it's both your first day.

Check all your fluids, check you've got a decent amount of tread and brake pad especially if it's dry for the tyres.

Just enjoy it, if there's tuition available take it, don't get caught up chasing people and remember you need to drive it home.

Also you need to consider the possible situation of your friend writing the car off.

upsidedownmark

2,120 posts

134 months

Monday 20th March 2017
quotequote all
Short version: Yes. Get on with it, have fun. Pay attention to tyre pressures and wear, and to brake pedal feel.. stop when things get hot and let it cool off a bit. Enjoy and see if you want to fettle anything for subsequent days.

Longer:
Plenty will tell you you need various brake/fluid upgrades. Highly dependent on car and driver, suck it and see, take a break when they start to get too hot.

Tyres will get hot and pressures rise - Generally let some air out on track, but there's a trade off between dropping them for grip/handling, and keeping them up a bit to stop it shredding the shoulders. Again driver dependent monitor and see.

Did I mention just go and enjoy it?

zedx19

2,704 posts

139 months

Monday 20th March 2017
quotequote all
Be sympathatic with the car and you'll be fine. If you drive like a tool and try hanging onto the back of a quicker car, you'll end up with issues. I've done trackdays in a few standard cars, mk1 172 and GTi-6 and no issues. You'll get a bit of grumbling protest from the brakes and no doubt some fade, but when that kicks in, come in for a bit of cool down. Don't use your handbrake when you come in for a cool down, leave it parked in gear. End of the day it's an open track, not a race day, you're not chasing lap times, you're there to have fun and learn the limits of the car.

chrispwill

Original Poster:

177 posts

123 months

Monday 20th March 2017
quotequote all
Generally confidence-building comments about the brake wear, which is good to hear smile

I like to do things the proper way, so I certainly won't be getting caught up in racing etc, but more focused on being smooth and learning, especially as it's first time.

I trust my friend, and we would work something out if any damage was caused when he was driving.

Considering doing a novice day as the first one as well, it seems they are 7 x 20 minute sessions (which might give good resting times for the brake/tyres anyway), do people advise this or is it generally better to go straight to a non-novice track day?

zedx19

2,704 posts

139 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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I've only done open pitlane and it worked well if you're sensible, an evening session was my first. I did a Renault organised event at Bedford which included being able to do a few laps in a Clio V6 and Megane 225 (was some time back). Unsure whether Ford do such events? A morning/evening session might be a good introduction though, cheaper and only half a day of hard wear on the car.

cat with a hat

1,484 posts

117 months

Monday 20th March 2017
quotequote all
chrispwill said:
Generally confidence-building comments about the brake wear, which is good to hear smile

I like to do things the proper way, so I certainly won't be getting caught up in racing etc, but more focused on being smooth and learning, especially as it's first time.

I trust my friend, and we would work something out if any damage was caused when he was driving.

Considering doing a novice day as the first one as well, it seems they are 7 x 20 minute sessions (which might give good resting times for the brake/tyres anyway), do people advise this or is it generally better to go straight to a non-novice track day?
Yes, go for a novice track day.

With the poor standard or driving/riding on non-novice days, they are identical anyway.

If you're scared about crashing (which you shouldn't be), you can also consider an airfield track day or simply a track with wide run offs.

zedx19

2,704 posts

139 months

Monday 20th March 2017
quotequote all
cat with a hat said:
Yes, go for a novice track day.

With the poor standard or driving/riding on non-novice days, they are identical anyway.

If you're scared about crashing (which you shouldn't be), you can also consider an airfield track day or simply a track with wide run offs.
This is good advice, track like Bedford has wide, grassy run offs, I still managed to stack my GTI-6 in one of the few barriers though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBBpIIB1RN0

Luckily though the barriers were soft and just moved out the way, leaving a small dint in the wing that pulled out.

Bedford is a good novice track imo, been a few years since I've been though admittably.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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Echo what others have said, but also you will probably want to do short stints especially on Eagle F1s. They are quite soft and melt easily on track, you'll notice because the car will start to move around on the brakes more than it did before.

Dakkon

7,826 posts

252 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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charltjr said:
Echo what others have said, but also you will probably want to do short stints especially on Eagle F1s. They are quite soft and melt easily on track, you'll notice because the car will start to move around on the brakes more than it did before.
I echo all of the above, do short stints and keep an eye on the car and you will be fine, give the car time to cool down between sessions and Eagle F1's don't like sustained abuse on track.

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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zedx19 said:
cat with a hat said:
Yes, go for a novice track day.

With the poor standard or driving/riding on non-novice days, they are identical anyway.

If you're scared about crashing (which you shouldn't be), you can also consider an airfield track day or simply a track with wide run offs.
This is good advice, track like Bedford has wide, grassy run offs, I still managed to stack my GTI-6 in one of the few barriers though...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBBpIIB1RN0

Luckily though the barriers were soft and just moved out the way, leaving a small dint in the wing that pulled out.

Bedford is a good novice track imo, been a few years since I've been though admittably.
Agreed with all of this. Coming from someone who also spun a French hatchback at Bedford as a novice!

Most importantly, don't take it all too seriously. You're not racing anyone/anything - it's supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable.

Alex

9,975 posts

283 months

Monday 20th March 2017
quotequote all
As long as there is plenty of material left on your brake pads, you should be fine.

Take it easy at first, keep you sessions short (< 15 mins), and give the car plenty of time to cool down (2 laps at road pace). After a session, park the car in gear with the handbrake off.

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Monday 20th March 2017
quotequote all
On a standard, well-maintained car it is probably realistic to complete 20 minute sessions provided there's a warm up and cool down period built in and maybe a cooling off lap in the middle. You'll probably find you can't push for full sessions anyway because people will get in the way.

Don't fall into the trap of braking gently for longer periods as this will actually get your brakes hotter than using them much harder for a shorter period (more cooling down time per lap). If you think you've gotten out of the throttle too early going into a corner don't rest on the brakes, use this moment of tranquil coasting to think about your braking and turn-in reference points.

From the start of the day get into the habit of immediately trimming your tyre pressures down when your session ends and don't pump them up again between sessions unless it gets wetter and / or colder.

chrispwill

Original Poster:

177 posts

123 months

Monday 20th March 2017
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
On a standard, well-maintained car it is probably realistic to complete 20 minute sessions provided there's a warm up and cool down period built in and maybe a cooling off lap in the middle. You'll probably find you can't push for full sessions anyway because people will get in the way.

Don't fall into the trap of braking gently for longer periods as this will actually get your brakes hotter than using them much harder for a shorter period (more cooling down time per lap). If you think you've gotten out of the throttle too early going into a corner don't rest on the brakes, use this moment of tranquil coasting to think about your braking and turn-in reference points.

From the start of the day get into the habit of immediately trimming your tyre pressures down when your session ends and don't pump them up again between sessions unless it gets wetter and / or colder.
Thanks! So regarding tyre pressures, should they be kept at manufacturer figures, or increase/decreased? What do you mean about trimming them after a session ends?

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Monday 20th March 2017
quotequote all
chrispwill said:
Thanks! So regarding tyre pressures, should they be kept at manufacturer figures, or increase/decreased? What do you mean about trimming them after a session ends?
I have no experience with cars like yours at all. However, more generally, your tyres pressures will increase quite drastically on track and as the pressure increases the tyre temperature increase will also accelerate- so for performance and tyre longevity you have to try to keep the pressures and therefore temperatures within sensible limits. As a starting point you could start your first session at the normal factory recommended pressures. When your first session ends, immediately get the gauge on them. They will have gone up by several PSI- so reduce the pressure back to around the starting pressures (no lower, perhaps a pound or two higher if you feel you're worried about wear on the outer shoulders). Rinse and repeat. You'll probably find you take out a little more air each session as you lean on them more. If it's wet, you can probably leave them alone. Have a pump and a decent gauge with you so that you can increase the pressures again if it rains.

It's hard to be exactly scientific about it but the aim of the game is to ensure that you aren't going to end up with the tyres 10psi too high meaning frustrating understeer and rapidly accelerating temperatures.

chrispwill

Original Poster:

177 posts

123 months

Tuesday 21st March 2017
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
I have no experience with cars like yours at all. However, more generally, your tyres pressures will increase quite drastically on track and as the pressure increases the tyre temperature increase will also accelerate- so for performance and tyre longevity you have to try to keep the pressures and therefore temperatures within sensible limits. As a starting point you could start your first session at the normal factory recommended pressures. When your first session ends, immediately get the gauge on them. They will have gone up by several PSI- so reduce the pressure back to around the starting pressures (no lower, perhaps a pound or two higher if you feel you're worried about wear on the outer shoulders). Rinse and repeat. You'll probably find you take out a little more air each session as you lean on them more. If it's wet, you can probably leave them alone. Have a pump and a decent gauge with you so that you can increase the pressures again if it rains.

It's hard to be exactly scientific about it but the aim of the game is to ensure that you aren't going to end up with the tyres 10psi too high meaning frustrating understeer and rapidly accelerating temperatures.
Thanks, that's extremely helpful. Looking forward to everything now, thanks all for the advice!

motorhole

658 posts

219 months

Tuesday 21st March 2017
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I'm assuming you're doing the track day in your Type R? If so, tyre pressures that work for you will probably be somewhere between 28-32 psi HOT. It's not unusual for road tyre pressures to increase by 6-8 psi over a 10-15 minute session on track, but all four tyres will increase differently as the load on each tyre will be different. What you want is all four tyres to be at the same pressure when they are hot.

So, my usual approach is to drop all pressures to about 10% lower than what I use on the road, then immediately after I come in following the first session, check all the pressures (they will be all over the place!) then adjust so they're at 32 psi all round (seems to work for my car/tyre combination - higher than this, grip suffers. Lower, the car feels squirmy and wallowy).

Obviously, at any unfamiliar track, you'll be getting faster each session so the pressure difference between hot and cold will change. So check pressures immediately after every session and adjust to what works for you. Keep an eye on the scrub marks on the shoulder of the tyre - if these start to work down onto the sidwall, the pressures are too low.

Don't forget to let the tyres cool and reset to usual levels prior to driving home, because they will be all over the shop!

Have fun smile

E-bmw

9,105 posts

151 months

Tuesday 21st March 2017
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Sorry for the copy/paste, but the answer is the same from me.

From my own experiences I would tell anyone to fully replace brake fluid with fresh high temperature brake fluid like ATE type 200 (formerly Superblue) and take a spare set of front pads.

I say this as losing your pedal at 110mph (happened to me on my 3rd day) at the end of a straight is no fun!

On top of this keep an eye on fluids/temps/pressures & use a degree of mechanical sympathy & you will have a hoot.

braddo

10,399 posts

187 months

Tuesday 21st March 2017
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There is no need to be changing anything for a first track day, the car will be ok while OP gets bearings around track driving. It does feel a bit weird the very first time but is a great thrill to be on a track.

I would echo - that brakes be used hard and fast, either be on them hard or not at all, but beware of weight transfer and how easily a car can spin if you turn hard on the brakes. Be smooth, build speed gradually thru the day, short sessions with a cool down lap, park with hand brake off, have a tyre gauge.

And enjoy! You will get tired and dehydrated, but it is great fun.