Track day modifications - Tight budget - 318ti
Discussion
Hi Guys,
I was just looking for some advice regarding the best placed modifications on the e36 318ti.
I have recently purchased the car, it was a well maintained low mileage car in good condition. It has a few minor rust spots that I intend rubbing down and painting in the summer (with a bit of vinyl wrapping in the end to hide my paint job😁)
The car will be used for track driving and occasional road driving if I get a board with the daily. I do intend on stripping it slightly, however will be keeping the rear seats as the moment as the kids might be in it now n again
I have a strict budget of £400.00, however I do have coilovers, reinforcement plates and top mounts aswell as a full brake upgrade consisting of pads, braided lines, discs and calliper carriers.
When parts fail I do intend on upgrading them at the time, but basically looking to see where would be best to spend the extra money ? (PS wheels and tyres are sorted at the moment - I will upgrade the tyres once they are worn) - Cheers
I was just looking for some advice regarding the best placed modifications on the e36 318ti.
I have recently purchased the car, it was a well maintained low mileage car in good condition. It has a few minor rust spots that I intend rubbing down and painting in the summer (with a bit of vinyl wrapping in the end to hide my paint job😁)
The car will be used for track driving and occasional road driving if I get a board with the daily. I do intend on stripping it slightly, however will be keeping the rear seats as the moment as the kids might be in it now n again
I have a strict budget of £400.00, however I do have coilovers, reinforcement plates and top mounts aswell as a full brake upgrade consisting of pads, braided lines, discs and calliper carriers.
When parts fail I do intend on upgrading them at the time, but basically looking to see where would be best to spend the extra money ? (PS wheels and tyres are sorted at the moment - I will upgrade the tyres once they are worn) - Cheers
Without meaning to sound like I'm contradicting you, you'd be surprised how poor "sorted" tyres can be on track. Even decent performance road tyres can go off very quickly under hard driving (2-3 laps), and can be melted to death in a single day.
Given that you've got brakes (assume you've got decent/new fluid?) and suspension (assume you've had a decent alignment done?) sorted already, I'd be inclined to spend the next few quid on either tyres (Nankang NS2Rs and Federal 595s get good reviews at a decent budget) or a bucket seat. Both could be theoretically possible for £400 if you shop carefully, and will completely transform the way the car performs on track.
Given that you've got brakes (assume you've got decent/new fluid?) and suspension (assume you've had a decent alignment done?) sorted already, I'd be inclined to spend the next few quid on either tyres (Nankang NS2Rs and Federal 595s get good reviews at a decent budget) or a bucket seat. Both could be theoretically possible for £400 if you shop carefully, and will completely transform the way the car performs on track.
C70R said:
Even decent performance road tyres can go off very quickly under hard driving (2-3 laps), and can be melted to death in a single day.
My experience would suggest it's not 'even', it's that there's an almost inverse correlation - which makes a kind of sense. 'Performance' road tyres need to work from pretty cold - therefore they tend to melt in a hurry. Anyone who thinks they're getting decent heat into a tyre on the road hasn't driven on track! Obviously not suggesting ditchfinder specials or deeply treaded with lots of blocks, but for the sake of example; michelin pilot sports were great on the road (old 986 boxster s), but terrible on track as they melted double quick. Much cheaper (and harder) bridgestone s-02's were a much better track tyre.
However, you may as well melt what you have to death.. so Setup, seat and driver training would be my prescription
jassihayre said:
Had Toyo Proxy T1R's which are rated
I have heard this before from several people who were tempted to try them and each one, to a man, swore that they were a poor road tyre and, even worse, the worst ever track tyre.Unfortunately for some unknown reason several web sites still call them track day tyres.
From my own experiences I would tell anyone to fully replace brake fluid with fresh high temperature brake fluid like ATE type 200 (formerly Superblue) and take a spare set of front pads.
I say this as losing your pedal at 110mph (happened to me on my 3rd day) at the end of a straight is no fun!
On top of this keep an eye on fluids/temps/pressures & use a degree of mechanical sympathy & you will have a hoot.
I say this as losing your pedal at 110mph (happened to me on my 3rd day) at the end of a straight is no fun!
On top of this keep an eye on fluids/temps/pressures & use a degree of mechanical sympathy & you will have a hoot.
Cheers !
The suspension will be set up on the hunter, and I may corner weight it if I can be bothered. These costs have been taken care of. Brake fluid has also been accounted for in the cost, as s0meone mentioned I will probably go for the ate super blue for easy purge / bleed.
Tyres lol - well there are 4 proxes current fitted, 4mm tread, so I will burn these and get new set, I'm not going to include these in the budget though as when these are shot (After the first track day by the sound of it, I intended to replace upgrade as Bart of the maintenance regime.
I'm thinking pads and seat ? I'm sure the leather SE chair may end up causing me problems.
Unless anyone thinks strategically placed bushes / arbs etc would be a more beneficial ?
The suspension will be set up on the hunter, and I may corner weight it if I can be bothered. These costs have been taken care of. Brake fluid has also been accounted for in the cost, as s0meone mentioned I will probably go for the ate super blue for easy purge / bleed.
Tyres lol - well there are 4 proxes current fitted, 4mm tread, so I will burn these and get new set, I'm not going to include these in the budget though as when these are shot (After the first track day by the sound of it, I intended to replace upgrade as Bart of the maintenance regime.
I'm thinking pads and seat ? I'm sure the leather SE chair may end up causing me problems.
Unless anyone thinks strategically placed bushes / arbs etc would be a more beneficial ?
Compact make great budget track cars. As you probably know, there is a Compact Cup race series and I think a dedicated forum? A great place for cheap bits and advice.
A seat and harness can be bought quite cheaply. I would also lose as much weight (from the car) as you can. This is a free boost in performance! Those leather seats, carpet etc all weigh quite a bit and simply aren't needed in a track car.
What coilovers are they? Assuming they're half decent, you should be able to get new springs fitted in no time. 2 1/4 or 2 1/2 inch springs aren't too expensive and once again, can be found used online. I used to run 550lb fronts and 250lb rears but you can research yourself.
You could also try getting a Superchip ECU from a Cup car? I think it's they who do them anyway? Other than that, it's probably not worth messing with the engine. As I said, losing weight is the best option really.
Some instruction is the best thing you can do if you're new to track driving. I know we all like to think we're undiscovered BTCC drivers but being shown what to do by an experienced driver is the best way forward.
Anyway, hope this helps a bit and that you enjoy yourself on track. It's pretty addictive though, so be prepared to be skint from now on!
A seat and harness can be bought quite cheaply. I would also lose as much weight (from the car) as you can. This is a free boost in performance! Those leather seats, carpet etc all weigh quite a bit and simply aren't needed in a track car.
What coilovers are they? Assuming they're half decent, you should be able to get new springs fitted in no time. 2 1/4 or 2 1/2 inch springs aren't too expensive and once again, can be found used online. I used to run 550lb fronts and 250lb rears but you can research yourself.
You could also try getting a Superchip ECU from a Cup car? I think it's they who do them anyway? Other than that, it's probably not worth messing with the engine. As I said, losing weight is the best option really.
Some instruction is the best thing you can do if you're new to track driving. I know we all like to think we're undiscovered BTCC drivers but being shown what to do by an experienced driver is the best way forward.
Anyway, hope this helps a bit and that you enjoy yourself on track. It's pretty addictive though, so be prepared to be skint from now on!
Excellent post Mark - thanks ! Sounds like the mods selected so far are about as much as I need, the coilovers are cheap pro sports, so not the best. But it was a budget build so the best I could afford with the start up budget I have available.
Yip stripping is on the list it will be minimal to start with but I will get there in the end !
Tuition also sounds like a plan
Yip stripping is on the list it will be minimal to start with but I will get there in the end !
Tuition also sounds like a plan
jassihayre said:
Brake pads and tires as said above. Had Toyo Proxy T1R's which are rated but melted after 3 laps in a MX5!
I've seen T1Rs rated in a few places including here. Odd, my only experience of them was that they behaved like I'd expect for a relatively cheap tyre. Not much grip and prodigious wear rates.Something like an AD08R may cost twice as much but I've found they last three times as long and have far better grip.
OP: SPEAK TO THIS MAN
AD08R , next level performance versus a T1R, stonking amounts of grip!
motorhole said:
Might be selling the Koni coilovers on my car in a few months - they are for an E36 318ti. Also have E36 M3 control arms for extra caster
I've run Konis on a few cars and find them great.Mound Dawg said:
I've seen T1Rs rated in a few places including here.
Something like an AD08R may cost twice as much but I've found they last three times as long and have far better grip.
T1Rs were good about 10 years ago, for track the R1R or 888R are current models that are road/track orientated giving you the option to drive to the track, do a days "work" and drive home. Something like an AD08R may cost twice as much but I've found they last three times as long and have far better grip.
AD08R , next level performance versus a T1R, stonking amounts of grip!
So long as you've got brakes, fluids, tyres and pads sorted, I'd go for a decent seat, secondhand if need be (so long as you're sure it hasn't been involved in a crash) for 50 - 100 quid and spend the rest on instruction - you'll get far more out of decent instruction (at the start at least) than you will from performance bits.
I always think it's a good idea to ask what the intention is for trackdays. Do you want to go fast or do you want to explore the limits of the handling? If it's the latter then I would shy away from spending money on trackday tyres and go for something cheaper and harder wearing - having less grip will reduce the stress on a lot of the other components on the car, and as an added bonus you'll get to the limit at a lower speed. If you're learning, that's a good thing. 
Best mod I've ever done on a track car is a proper race seat. Being held in place makes the world of difference as you don't spend corners hanging on to the wheel and bracing parts of your body against immovable bits of the interior. Plus you lesson the risk of screwing your back up.
Other than that, make sure it's in good mechanical order and stick some decent brake fluid in it.
Sticky tyres can come later once you've sussed out the cars handling.
Other than that, make sure it's in good mechanical order and stick some decent brake fluid in it.
Sticky tyres can come later once you've sussed out the cars handling.
Hi Guys,
That's the coilovers on, and been out all weekend testing them out ! The pro sports are ok, although the rebound seems to be a bit excessive. I have kind of half assed corner weighted them as well, so I'm going to let them settle over the next couple of weeks and go and get the alignment done
Anyhoo re the track tyres, I'm not trying to be competitive (if I was I wouldn't of bought a compact lol) therefor slicks etc are out of the question. I don't think I will be running a roll cage therefor don't want to tempt fate will increased grip levels, the name of the game is fun so I will be purchasing the nakangs or federal once the toyos are worn.
Upon driving the car the handling still has a bit to go before I'm going to be happy with it, when I was underneath the bushes didn't look to bad. I've replaced the top mounts and with the exception of the ARB drop links (I'll get these purchased soon) the rest were ok.
The question is where to go now ? The issue is with direction changes, e.g. I steer the car, the car kind of changes direction but almost a second later " rolls " like that's when the steering takes place, hard to explains but I'm sure some will be aware of this issue, the question is how to eradicate this - is it a bushing or anti roll bar issue ? - ps I have the upgraded sport arbs 26 front and 16mm rear (I think that's the sizes) h&r kit is 28 and 19, but again guys in the CC actually run these without the rear ARB
That's the coilovers on, and been out all weekend testing them out ! The pro sports are ok, although the rebound seems to be a bit excessive. I have kind of half assed corner weighted them as well, so I'm going to let them settle over the next couple of weeks and go and get the alignment done
Anyhoo re the track tyres, I'm not trying to be competitive (if I was I wouldn't of bought a compact lol) therefor slicks etc are out of the question. I don't think I will be running a roll cage therefor don't want to tempt fate will increased grip levels, the name of the game is fun so I will be purchasing the nakangs or federal once the toyos are worn.
Upon driving the car the handling still has a bit to go before I'm going to be happy with it, when I was underneath the bushes didn't look to bad. I've replaced the top mounts and with the exception of the ARB drop links (I'll get these purchased soon) the rest were ok.
The question is where to go now ? The issue is with direction changes, e.g. I steer the car, the car kind of changes direction but almost a second later " rolls " like that's when the steering takes place, hard to explains but I'm sure some will be aware of this issue, the question is how to eradicate this - is it a bushing or anti roll bar issue ? - ps I have the upgraded sport arbs 26 front and 16mm rear (I think that's the sizes) h&r kit is 28 and 19, but again guys in the CC actually run these without the rear ARB
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