What if the worst happens?
Discussion
Hi
I've never been on a trackday and would love to start. I've looked into getting track day insurance which seems very steep but is going to be a must as I can't afford to write off my car.
I know as a new comer to trackdays I'll be told to take it very easy (which I will).
However, if the worst happened and I did have an accident that was my fault I'd be fine becuase I was insured but what is the protocol for paying for the other persons damage (because the track insurance seems to be just to cover your own car)?
Is it all agreed and signed before the day starts that everyone is responsible for their own repairs regardless of fault? I know I'd be extremely annoyed if I didn't have insurance and some idiot driving above their own level of skill came crashing into the side of me and there's nothing you can do about it.
Many thanks
Chris
I've never been on a trackday and would love to start. I've looked into getting track day insurance which seems very steep but is going to be a must as I can't afford to write off my car.
I know as a new comer to trackdays I'll be told to take it very easy (which I will).
However, if the worst happened and I did have an accident that was my fault I'd be fine becuase I was insured but what is the protocol for paying for the other persons damage (because the track insurance seems to be just to cover your own car)?
Is it all agreed and signed before the day starts that everyone is responsible for their own repairs regardless of fault? I know I'd be extremely annoyed if I didn't have insurance and some idiot driving above their own level of skill came crashing into the side of me and there's nothing you can do about it.
Many thanks
Chris
All bets are pretty much off. That's why the overtaking rules are as they are and are enforced by reputable organisers, to avoid cars coming together. At best there may be a way to sue some idiot driving dangerously, or the organiser if they were told about the idiot's driving and did nothing, but I doubt it. You probably sign most those rights away with the indemnity anyway.
Jubal said:
All bets are pretty much off. That's why the overtaking rules are as they are and are enforced by reputable organisers, to avoid cars coming together. At best there may be a way to sue some idiot driving dangerously, or the organiser if they were told about the idiot's driving and did nothing, but I doubt it. You probably sign most those rights away with the indemnity anyway.
You cannot sign away your statutory rights where there is liability for negligence. However, you would need to prove negligence on behalf of the driver of the car, the organisers, the track owner or any combination thereof. Where there is a true "accident" this would be nigh on impossible to prove, and therefore you would have no recourse. In those cases, if you had insurance you would claim on yours (insurance provides cover for defined accidents (!)), and the other driver would claim on theirs.
One legal definition (it depends on many circumstances in practice) would be
"some sudden and unexpected event taking place without expectation, upon the instant, rather than something that continues, progresses or develops; something happening by chance; something unforeseen, unexpected, unusual, extraordinary, or phenomenal, taking place not according to the usual course of things or events, out of the range of ordinary calculations; that which exists or occurs abnormally, or an uncommon occurrence."
The key bit there is the "rather than something that continues, progresses or develops". Clearly if someone came close to hitting another car a few times, was reported, and the organisers did nothing about it and then that person went on to hit you, that wouldn't be an accident and hence you would have a statutory claim.
To summise, or to make it simpler, as with all insurance, if you can't afford the loss, and can't afford the insurance to cover the loss, don't do it. If you can only afford the insurance rather than the loss, then take out the insurance, and if you can afford both then it is up to you if you 'self insure' or pay for insurance.
J
francisb said:
or buy a recognised classic and get free trackday insurance
The problem there is that IMO most cars that would come under a 'Classic' policy would not be that suitable to track unless modified. I do track a 37 year old car but as it's been modified to make it quickier (engine, suspension etc. etc.) and safe (caged) no insurance company would consider it on a 'Classic' policy.
combemarshal said:
>>>>>WHAT IF THE WORST HAPPENS?
You get to meet me!!!
You get to meet me!!!
On a serious note, I have done about 15 track days over the last 15/18 months, and I have only ever seen ONE accident, and that it appears, was a genuine case of two cars spinning out at the exact same place and coming in contact with eqch other.
In my view, if you see someone driving in a way you are not happy with, either have a word with the organisers, or if open pit lane, make sure you go out as they come in...swot I do...
F
There are companies which will include trackday cover as part of your annual car insurance policy. AON include 5 trackdays a year on mine (with an increased excess while on track) and there are a few other companies which do similar deals.
Whether you decide you need insurance is down to personal choice. At each of the last two circuit days I've attended one car has hit a tyre/concrete wall (each doing in excess of £10K damage).
Best thing to do is contact a circuit/company you are interested in and go along to watch. Costs nothing, you get to see the types of cars running and make your own mind up about driving standards, marshalling etc. If you chat to people in the pits someone will probably offer to take you out as a passenger (may cost you £10 to sign on).
Have a go, it's great fun
Whether you decide you need insurance is down to personal choice. At each of the last two circuit days I've attended one car has hit a tyre/concrete wall (each doing in excess of £10K damage).
Best thing to do is contact a circuit/company you are interested in and go along to watch. Costs nothing, you get to see the types of cars running and make your own mind up about driving standards, marshalling etc. If you chat to people in the pits someone will probably offer to take you out as a passenger (may cost you £10 to sign on).
Have a go, it's great fun
Furyous said:
On a serious note, I have done about 15 track days over the last 15/18 months, and I have only ever seen ONE accident, and that it appears, was a genuine case of two cars spinning out at the exact same place and coming in contact with eqch other.
If that was at Bedford then I was passenger in one of those cars. Accidents do happen, and the moral of that story is that one of the owners was insured, one wasn't. The one that was cost the insurance company £12,000 to get it fixed - I 100% sure he was very happy that he spent the money on the insurance and, on reflection, wasn't that upset / surprised that his road insurance went up by a fair amount for his next renewal. As for the other driver - not insured, and not sure the car is back on the road....
J
elderly said:
IMO most cars that would come under a 'Classic' policy would not be that suitable to track unless modified.
964rs would seem the obvious choice
Furyous said:
On a serious note, I have done about 15 track days over the last 15/18 months, and I have only ever seen ONE accident
wow. i'd suggest thats very rare. ive done about the same number at silverstone/donny/brands - i cant recall a trackday i havent seen at least 1 major crash and several grazes. it does happen
I think Ceecee is talking about accidents involving 2 cars coming together which I would say are very rare (I haven't seen one on any of my 80 odd track days) rather than those involving just the one car and the scenery which are common but to some degree dependant on which track you're on.
Those accidents involving two cars the strictly speaking the liability lies with whoever was negligent. However AFAIK trackday insurance excludes 3rd party damage, hence the other persons insurance will not pay out. You could personaly sue the other driver but the disclaimers and nature of the activity is going to make this a difficult task.
I would say that strictly speaking normal road car insurance does cover for 3rd party loses in these cases but the chances of getting repair costs out of the negligent drivers road insurance are very slim. A multi million pound claim for serious disabling injury is a differnt matter though.........
Those accidents involving two cars the strictly speaking the liability lies with whoever was negligent. However AFAIK trackday insurance excludes 3rd party damage, hence the other persons insurance will not pay out. You could personaly sue the other driver but the disclaimers and nature of the activity is going to make this a difficult task.
I would say that strictly speaking normal road car insurance does cover for 3rd party loses in these cases but the chances of getting repair costs out of the negligent drivers road insurance are very slim. A multi million pound claim for serious disabling injury is a differnt matter though.........
combemarshal said:
If you see someone driving bad, as said report it, but all you really have to do is drop back, Combe for instance is 1.85 miles long, More than enough space to not be near them!
the problem I have with that is I catch up with them again really quickly. Not an issue on Open pit lane events, I just go back in and wait a bit then go out.
chilled said:
combemarshal said:
If you see someone driving bad, as said report it, but all you really have to do is drop back, Combe for instance is 1.85 miles long, More than enough space to not be near them!
the problem I have with that is I catch up with them again really quickly. Not an issue on Open pit lane events, I just go back in and wait a bit then go out.
Agreed. Open-pit is a lot more relaxed.
Having said that, most of the people I see being idiots fall into two categories:-
- 'racers' out testing on-the-cheap...seem to forget about the trackday rules and about the fact they're on-track with amateurs. My one near-miss happened when an Touring-Car spec Vectra decided to overtake me on the INSIDE of a corner at Donington. Mentioned it to the marshals and apparently I wasn't the first, but he carried on, and they didn't do a lot (last time I went on a Trakzone day).
- cheap track-only hot-hatch conversions. Nowhere near all, but the cheaper the car, the less the owner seems bothered about it.
havoc said:
- cheap track-only hot-hatch conversions. Nowhere near all, but the cheaper the car, the less the owner seems bothered about it.
Like this: www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=298071&f=118&h=0 you mean
And some video footage to go with it:
scary video
Holy sh!t!!!
Was that a track-day or an actual race? Because it looked like an out-of-control trackday with a bunch of chav's on-track. That video was beyond scary...'Ali' REALLY can't drive for toffee, and worse is happy to risk his and others' cars safety, plus his "co-driver's" (sic) safety just for kicks.
Was that a track-day or an actual race? Because it looked like an out-of-control trackday with a bunch of chav's on-track. That video was beyond scary...'Ali' REALLY can't drive for toffee, and worse is happy to risk his and others' cars safety, plus his "co-driver's" (sic) safety just for kicks.
I've been round Castle Combe once in my old BGT, it was a lot of fun. But I've also seen a few bunny-hopping Fords causing problems. There is another Action Day coming up in a couple of weeks and I might well go along. I would love to go round in my car but am anxious about getting dinked or worse, coming off on a corner. It is a big heavy car and not very nimble. Best bet is to go along and see what sort of crowd is there I guess.
I've seen more than one rolled car at these events though...
I've seen more than one rolled car at these events though...
Edited by cml on Friday 1st September 14:28
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