Brown trouser moment at Croft last Monday.

[ntel]

First time on the track for me at Croft last Monday (first time ever on a track). Had a fantastic time and kinda got the bug now. The car behaved brilliantly all day but I had a scary moment in the last session (my fault entirly I think). On the fourth lap, going at full chat up the back straight into Tower I must have left the braking a little late. I stepped on the brakes maybe too hard and the rear of the car started fish tailing violently. I let off the brakes to straighten it up and turned into the corner too fast making the car go very sideways. Somehow, and I havn't got a clue how, I mangaged to get round the corner and keep it on the black stuff. I'm sure that I wasn't breaking much harder than at any other time during the day but I'm probably wrong. The tyre pressures were set to 31psi (Goodyear Eagles F1), the Nitrons were set at 10 clicks from hard front and back. What made the rear end fish tail so violently and is there anything I can do to the car to reduce this in future? oh, by the way, the car is a Tuscan 2.

Any suggestions greatfully received.

Dave

[Guillotine]

..less lager in chequers the night before?



andy
tvrmonster

[paulburrell]

Were the wheels pointing straight ahead when you started braking, if not then by doing all of your braking in a straight line you should not unbalance the car and the risk of oversteer should be virtually zero. If you locked the brakes at the front this could also effect the balance of the car . Whatever you did unbalanced the grip at the rear of the car. Was it wet, were rear tyres worn, were you changing down a gear at the time? All of these factors can play a part in unsettling the car. Best answer to your question is to go out again with an Instructor and try and replicate the manoeuvre and ask them what the cause might be.

Enjoy your trackdays.

[oola]

From memory there is a slight bump when braking for tower and if you are hard (very late) on the brakes and travelling at speed, the car goes light and can land awkwardly.

A friend of mine did exactly the same in his 996 C4S last year when I was right behind him. I let him overtake me and he flew into tower carrying too much speed and ended up sideways onto the grass .... quite a feat in a the dry in a 4wd car.

As above, always good to get instruction, before or after a brown trouser moment ....

[nickbell3]

Spunk-man stylee to the max!! Yee haa

[Phil. S.]

Apply pressure to the brake pedal smoothly (it needn't be slow, just smooth). If you just jump on the brakes you risk it squirming, as the sudden shift in weight will tend to unbalance the car.

[ntel]

Thanks for the replies.

Andy, I never touch that Lager stuff, only best bitter for me matey.

I had some really good instruction earlier in the day. The session previous to the incident went really well and felt I was really putting the instruction to good effect. The track was perfectly dry and I was braking in a straight line. I did brake later and probably harder than in previous laps but I dont recall the front wheels locking up.

I would like to think that the bump in the track caused the car to get out of shape but will put it down to my own inexperience. I may have also got a bit giddy because it was the last session.

Anyway, no harm done.

Thanks

Dave C

[fly boy]

Dave
When did you set your tyre pressures & how often did you recheck them?
I set mine @ 27psi, F1 eagles like yours.
I mentioned to Daftlad (new PH handle "TrackGod"in the afternoon that towards the end of each session the tyres must be getting too hot as the back end was twitchy/ squirming around & he said the pressures will be too high. A quick check & the left pair were up at 34psi.
FB

[yi8tvr]

if you brake on the kink you will get a light back.

if you brake there without blipping your throttle you will get to much engine braking and you will get a light back.

The approach to Tower is slightly off camber which does not help.

[Daftlad]

ntel said:

First time on the track for me at Croft last Monday

ntel said:

Going at full chat up the back straight into Tower I must have left the braking a little late.

Advice... leave full chat into Tower and late braking for the second track day.

Glad you enjoyed it, you looked like you were both having fun.

[ntel]

fly boy said:

Dave
When did you set your tyre pressures & how often did you recheck them?
I set mine @ 27psi, F1 eagles like yours.
I mentioned to Daftlad (new PH handle "TrackGod"in the afternoon that towards the end of each session the tyres must be getting too hot as the back end was twitchy/ squirming around & he said the pressures will be too high. A quick check & the left pair were up at 34psi.
FB

Good point Chris. I set the pressures prior to the start of the first session when they were cold and did not check them again throughout the day. On the penultimate session I felt that the car was really handling well and I was putting some good laps in. It was only 40 minutes after that session had finished and I was out again for the last one.

I did notice that when I left the pit lane for the last session the back end was very twitchy under hard acceleration.

[oola]

nickbell3 said:

Spunk-man stylee to the max!! Yee haa

You got it ... smoke n tyre squeel all the way!!

[Guillotine]

ntel said:

fly boy said:

Dave
When did you set your tyre pressures & how often did you recheck them?
I set mine @ 27psi, F1 eagles like yours.
I mentioned to Daftlad (new PH handle "TrackGod"in the afternoon that towards the end of each session the tyres must be getting too hot as the back end was twitchy/ squirming around & he said the pressures will be too high. A quick check & the left pair were up at 34psi.
FB

Good point Chris. I set the pressures prior to the start of the first session when they were cold and did not check them again throughout the day. On the penultimate session I felt that the car was really handling well and I was putting some good laps in. It was only 40 minutes after that session had finished and I was out again for the last one.

I did notice that when I left the pit lane for the last session the back end was very twitchy under hard acceleration.

Dave
if it was twitchy leaving the pitlane, thats too early for temp probs.
undoubtably you'll be gaining lots more heat, inflateing the tyres and causing loss of grip etc (mine gain 7psi)
more likely to be a combination.
your increased confidence = heavier right foot(braking and accellerating).
scuffed, feathered and dirty tyres.

checking temps at the end of the session asap is required!

nice one mate.

andy
tvrmonster

[dvpeace]

For what it's worth....
My Mk1 Tuscan tended to fishtail under heavy breaking on the track. I found that it was only an issue above 80mph after that you could break as hard as you liked. I found I was having to strip the first few mph off with a little more care before nailing it below 80.
This was not an issue in the Sagaris so it must be to do with the extended wheel base and the overall balance of the car.

I enjoyed watching you all having fun at Croft.

David

[ntel]

Thanks for all your replys. All good input by you and a valuable lesson learnt me.

Now, whos going to teach me how to powerslide

[cross-eyed-twit]

get one of these handy little things, saves lots of time

[richad027]

Lots of cars will fishtail under very heavy sudden braking. Its to do with the toe setting of the rear suspension (are the wheels pointing dead straight ahead or slightly in or slightly out) I can't tell you if you need to make it toe in or out but very small changes affect my GT3 in a big way, 10 minutes is big change. The best way to avoid this if you car does do it is to make sure that you don't stamp on the brake, make the initial application gentle then go hard on the brakes, if it starts to happen then easy back slightly on the brakes. On top of this if there are bumps onthe track or your tyres have got too hot then its all going to make it much worse.


Richard.

[yi8tvr]

Its driver error 99% of the time. People talk technical bolox far to much.

[Daftlad]

yi8tvr said:

Its driver error 99% of the time. People talk technical bolox far to much.

[Guillotine]

yi8tvr said:

Its driver error 99% of the time. People talk technical bolox far to much.

espacially in Chequers after TOOO many stella's!