bedford track day 14th october
Discussion
Tif
I thought the Marshalls were up to their usual poor standard. The only blue flag I saw being waved all day was the one(blue light) at the entrance to the left hander just before the 1km straight. As for the ridiculously large numbers of cars what more can be said. I have written to MSV to complain at their apparent greed. I suggest that anyone else who felt the long queues were unacceptable should do likewise. If not then things will never change.
Just my 2 cents
I thought the Marshalls were up to their usual poor standard. The only blue flag I saw being waved all day was the one(blue light) at the entrance to the left hander just before the 1km straight. As for the ridiculously large numbers of cars what more can be said. I have written to MSV to complain at their apparent greed. I suggest that anyone else who felt the long queues were unacceptable should do likewise. If not then things will never change.
Just my 2 cents
I only booked the afternoon as I had previous experience of delayed foggy bedford mornings. I assumed, quite a few booked for the morning stayed on for the afternoon?
Agree it was a little crowded with many newcomers who were lucky not to get involved in an "incident" due to a lack of regard for other experienced and less experienced drivers.
Agree it was a little crowded with many newcomers who were lucky not to get involved in an "incident" due to a lack of regard for other experienced and less experienced drivers.
Would agree with comments on numbers of cars which was substantial, with huge variations in abilities. As a total beginner, I nonetheless was very comforted to have my instructor with me 100% of the time, showing me the correct lines throughout the day. Amazing was seeing how many people were not taking these, and performing some pretty unsafe moves. Nonetheless - Caterham staff and training excellent and it left me wanting to try again asap.
I've done over 20 days at Bedford inthe past 3 years and that was the first time that I've queued in the pit lane to get on circuit ! I didn't think the driving standards were too bad really quite a few slow people one or two very slow people but most of them moved out of the way quickly. There was one black 350z convertible who didn't want to get out of the way, who was going quite quickly but then he had a big slide out of the first hair pin and then had another big one one going into the bank complex, at which point I think his wife told him to let me past.
Shame about the fog but it often happens on supposedly clear days between now and March.
Richard
Shame about the fog but it often happens on supposedly clear days between now and March.
Richard
peterpeter said:
clubsport said:
Although the Gt circuit is long, I felt bad for you guys in the caterhams,,,,as suggested it was busier than normal, you would have more fun and a better chance to take the suggested lines on a regular day...
which car were you in yesterday?
Yellow 993.
Hmmmmm, Because I left it too late to book originally, I had to book on for the morning only, so I was one of the unfortunates you left at about 11am, without a minute on track.
I did ask if there was no way at all we could be moved to the afternoon, especially as looking around there was only about 6 or 7 cars booked on for morning only. It seems that maybe they knew they already had a very crowded day!!
However, they've got another one, last minute notice, this weekend, although its on the SEN circuit.
Has anyone got any information on what this layout is like? Has anyone here driven it?
Cheers
Dave
I did ask if there was no way at all we could be moved to the afternoon, especially as looking around there was only about 6 or 7 cars booked on for morning only. It seems that maybe they knew they already had a very crowded day!!
However, they've got another one, last minute notice, this weekend, although its on the SEN circuit.
Has anyone got any information on what this layout is like? Has anyone here driven it?
Cheers
Dave
If the SEN circuit is the one that they use or the summer evening events then IMHO it's got some far more interesting and fun corners and makes a refreshing change for the ever so slightly boring GP layout. Hopefully numbers of cars will be more restricted as well.
PS. Did you get your money back on Saturday???
PS. Did you get your money back on Saturday???
Edited by paulburrell on Monday 16th October 17:58
paulburrell said:
If the SEN circuit is the one that they use or the summer evening events then IMHO it's got some far more interesting and fun corners and makes a refreshing change for the ever so slightly boring GP layout. Hopefully numbers of cars will be more restricted as well.
PS. Did you get your money back on Saturday???
PS. Did you get your money back on Saturday???
Edited by paulburrell on Monday 16th October 17:58
btw steve, have you seen all the new silverstone december dates???
For anyone who is interested and was there on Saturday the 14th, here's the email response that I recieved from Alex Baker at MSV this morning. This was sent in response to my earlier complaint about overcrowding at the event.
Hi Steve,
Thanks for your email.
Firstly my apologies about the weather. Obviously there is not a lot we can do to help matters in this department but none the less it is still very annoying when you plan your Saturday around a trackday and it is cancelled due to weather conditions.
Obviously we take the operations of our events very seriously and I'm proud to say we receive very few complaints. With regards to numbers on the day - we had 70 full day bookings and 30 bookings for both the morning and afternoon which meant that there would never be more than 100 cars at the event - which is less than some trackday organisers that run at Bedford. I have spoken to Graham at RMA and he has confirmed that they run at least 100 cars on their events at Bedford, sometimes more.
We had two options on Saturday - 1) send all the drivers booked in for the full day home without any track time or 2) allow drivers who booked for the full day out on circuit in the afternoon. We chose the second option as I'm sure that if we had chosen the first we would have had a lot more unhappy customers on our hands as we had drivers coming from all over the country to attend. However, obviously because of the delayed start, those who had booked the full day were trying to make the most of the afternoon on circuit (not that I blame them) but I would suggest that this would have caused queues in the pit lane.
We have run the morning / afternoon / full day format with this number of cars before at Bedford without any problems. I would really appreciate it if you could convey this point to anyone who is currently miss-informed by either forwarding this email or posting a copy on the current Pistonheads post about the day as we are not 'greedy' or in the business of running overcrowded events.
I have also spoken to the Chief Instructor on the day and he has clarified to me 4 customers who had booked the morning session were allowed out in the afternoon. This was because we had 4 customers booked in for the afternoon that did not turn up and therefore they simply took their places after waiting around all morning to get on circuit.
One thing that I will suggest to drivers such as yourself is that an MSV trackday at Bedford Autodrome on a Saturday will always attract a varied skill base of drivers in a selection of different vehicles. This can cause frustration for very experienced trackday drivers in quick cars. Trackdays during the week normally offer more space and track time so maybe you would be better off on these. Can I also respectively suggest that you to contact me in future to get the facts about an event, as opposed to making rather misinformed comments on such a public forum as Pistonheads.
I hope this answers all your questions and I do hope we see you at another MSV trackday soon.
Kind regards,
Alex Baker
Track Day Organiser
MotorSport Vision Limited
Brands Hatch
Fawkham
Longfield
Kent DA3 8NG
t: 01474 875216 f: 01474 874822
e: alex.baker@motorsportvision.co.uk
www.motorsportvision.co.uk
Brands Hatch, Oulton Park, Cadwell Park, Snetterton, Bedford Autodrome
Hi Steve,
Thanks for your email.
Firstly my apologies about the weather. Obviously there is not a lot we can do to help matters in this department but none the less it is still very annoying when you plan your Saturday around a trackday and it is cancelled due to weather conditions.
Obviously we take the operations of our events very seriously and I'm proud to say we receive very few complaints. With regards to numbers on the day - we had 70 full day bookings and 30 bookings for both the morning and afternoon which meant that there would never be more than 100 cars at the event - which is less than some trackday organisers that run at Bedford. I have spoken to Graham at RMA and he has confirmed that they run at least 100 cars on their events at Bedford, sometimes more.
We had two options on Saturday - 1) send all the drivers booked in for the full day home without any track time or 2) allow drivers who booked for the full day out on circuit in the afternoon. We chose the second option as I'm sure that if we had chosen the first we would have had a lot more unhappy customers on our hands as we had drivers coming from all over the country to attend. However, obviously because of the delayed start, those who had booked the full day were trying to make the most of the afternoon on circuit (not that I blame them) but I would suggest that this would have caused queues in the pit lane.
We have run the morning / afternoon / full day format with this number of cars before at Bedford without any problems. I would really appreciate it if you could convey this point to anyone who is currently miss-informed by either forwarding this email or posting a copy on the current Pistonheads post about the day as we are not 'greedy' or in the business of running overcrowded events.
I have also spoken to the Chief Instructor on the day and he has clarified to me 4 customers who had booked the morning session were allowed out in the afternoon. This was because we had 4 customers booked in for the afternoon that did not turn up and therefore they simply took their places after waiting around all morning to get on circuit.
One thing that I will suggest to drivers such as yourself is that an MSV trackday at Bedford Autodrome on a Saturday will always attract a varied skill base of drivers in a selection of different vehicles. This can cause frustration for very experienced trackday drivers in quick cars. Trackdays during the week normally offer more space and track time so maybe you would be better off on these. Can I also respectively suggest that you to contact me in future to get the facts about an event, as opposed to making rather misinformed comments on such a public forum as Pistonheads.
I hope this answers all your questions and I do hope we see you at another MSV trackday soon.
Kind regards,
Alex Baker
Track Day Organiser
MotorSport Vision Limited
Brands Hatch
Fawkham
Longfield
Kent DA3 8NG
t: 01474 875216 f: 01474 874822
e: alex.baker@motorsportvision.co.uk
www.motorsportvision.co.uk
Brands Hatch, Oulton Park, Cadwell Park, Snetterton, Bedford Autodrome
Edited by paulburrell on Wednesday 18th October 20:27
i agree with alex on this one i had a good day and the only time i had to queue was when there was an incident on the track it was my 4th track day at bedford this year and there were no more people and cars at this event than at any of the previous track days at bedford one thing i will say is that some drivers were not sticking to the circuit rules i.e.not overtaking on the left, and slower drivers were not moving across to let the faster cars like myself through therefore i think the blue flags were not used enough by the marshalls, and also the people not overtaking on the correct side were not black flagged and corrected for what they were doing wrong
I guess you'll never please all the people all the time. Yes I would have been well hacked off if having booked the full day, they would have said no track time at all, even with a clear afternoon. I'm really not experienced in these things as it was only my 3rd day, so probably don't warrant a comment, but never found the waits excessive I just timed my visits when the queue was only a couple of cars.
Unless you have experience restrictions, I don't see how you can get past the issue of faster & slower cars on track albeit good track manners don't come with experience. To the fast boys, there needs to be an acceptance us inexperienced guys are going to get in the way sometimes, I do my level best to get out of your way, but yes occassionally I'm gonna hold you up, sorry. But the only way I can never hold you up is if I don't go on track. If I'm being a nuisance & the marshal's don't pick it up, come & find me in the pit lane, help me understand what I'm doing wrong. Do it with the right attitude & I'll improve. Come & tell me I'm a dangerous so & so who shouldn't be on track is probably not the way to do it even if true
.
Walking round the pit lane it was interesting to listen to people, some were there genuinely interested to help you out. Others you wouldn't approach with a barge pole, all they seemed interested in was slagging off any driver, who wasn't as talented as they thought they were. Was highly amused when I saw one such "expert" spin off in a particulalry safe part of the track. Thankfully the former were in the majority.
My only observation on the day was the briefing did seem to be just about non-existent & badly controlled. We walked in with it virtually finished, really caught nothing of it, yet still got issued with our wristband to say we'd attended the briefing.
PS : I'm back at Bedford on 8th December, so feel free to come lecture me on my poor driving then.
Unless you have experience restrictions, I don't see how you can get past the issue of faster & slower cars on track albeit good track manners don't come with experience. To the fast boys, there needs to be an acceptance us inexperienced guys are going to get in the way sometimes, I do my level best to get out of your way, but yes occassionally I'm gonna hold you up, sorry. But the only way I can never hold you up is if I don't go on track. If I'm being a nuisance & the marshal's don't pick it up, come & find me in the pit lane, help me understand what I'm doing wrong. Do it with the right attitude & I'll improve. Come & tell me I'm a dangerous so & so who shouldn't be on track is probably not the way to do it even if true
. Walking round the pit lane it was interesting to listen to people, some were there genuinely interested to help you out. Others you wouldn't approach with a barge pole, all they seemed interested in was slagging off any driver, who wasn't as talented as they thought they were. Was highly amused when I saw one such "expert" spin off in a particulalry safe part of the track. Thankfully the former were in the majority.
My only observation on the day was the briefing did seem to be just about non-existent & badly controlled. We walked in with it virtually finished, really caught nothing of it, yet still got issued with our wristband to say we'd attended the briefing.
PS : I'm back at Bedford on 8th December, so feel free to come lecture me on my poor driving then.
Edited by rob_j on Thursday 19th October 09:09
Rob J
For the avoidance of doubt, don't think that I was complaining about the varied levels of driver skill involved. I was not. My letter to MSV was principally about overcrowding on the day with a further comment on the usual inactivity of the Bedford marshalls in using the blue flags. Alex seems to have interpreted this last point as criticing slower drivers on the Circuit, hence his suggestion that I avoid Saturday events at Bedford. His interpretation on this point was wrong and I have already written to him to point this out. My blue flag point was not aimed at having a go at slower drivers but was safety related, both for the faster car and for the less experienced/slower drivers who might well not be aware that a faster car is approaching.
For the avoidance of doubt, don't think that I was complaining about the varied levels of driver skill involved. I was not. My letter to MSV was principally about overcrowding on the day with a further comment on the usual inactivity of the Bedford marshalls in using the blue flags. Alex seems to have interpreted this last point as criticing slower drivers on the Circuit, hence his suggestion that I avoid Saturday events at Bedford. His interpretation on this point was wrong and I have already written to him to point this out. My blue flag point was not aimed at having a go at slower drivers but was safety related, both for the faster car and for the less experienced/slower drivers who might well not be aware that a faster car is approaching.
Rob,
Hope you didnt think any of my comments were being critical of you. You certainly moved out of the way when I came up behind you. (great spin on the chicane after the pit exit BTW!!)
However there were more drivers than ever who just refused to move...not after just a few corners, but after a whole lap!! As I said, I dont blame them, it was the briefing that didnt fully cover this area aswell as they normally do. Plus as already said, the blue flags were thin on the ground earlier on.
I dont think many of the experienced drivers were being unreasonable...they are used to there being hard rules that everyone obeys.
There is certainly no need to run days for novices and experienced drivers separately...they have been managing that brilliantly at bedford for years.
Tif
Hope you didnt think any of my comments were being critical of you. You certainly moved out of the way when I came up behind you. (great spin on the chicane after the pit exit BTW!!)
However there were more drivers than ever who just refused to move...not after just a few corners, but after a whole lap!! As I said, I dont blame them, it was the briefing that didnt fully cover this area aswell as they normally do. Plus as already said, the blue flags were thin on the ground earlier on.
I dont think many of the experienced drivers were being unreasonable...they are used to there being hard rules that everyone obeys.
There is certainly no need to run days for novices and experienced drivers separately...they have been managing that brilliantly at bedford for years.
Tif
Steve / Tif,
I'll have to add a lot more smilies in future. Wasn't intending to be critical of any of you fast boys either.
To be honest not sure how anyone can enjoy going round knowing they are holding someone else up. I'd much rather let someone by and get back to concentrating on what I'm doing with some clear track than have someone else breathing down my neck. I just think it's common sense, let the faster guys through & get back to having some fun. I was even being held up myself by the end of the day & deeply frustrating I found it too.
And before anyone thinks otherwise the spin, on the 1st chicane just after the pits, was not straight out of the pits, that would have been even more embarrassing.
I'll have to add a lot more smilies in future. Wasn't intending to be critical of any of you fast boys either.
To be honest not sure how anyone can enjoy going round knowing they are holding someone else up. I'd much rather let someone by and get back to concentrating on what I'm doing with some clear track than have someone else breathing down my neck. I just think it's common sense, let the faster guys through & get back to having some fun. I was even being held up myself by the end of the day & deeply frustrating I found it too.
And before anyone thinks otherwise the spin, on the 1st chicane just after the pits, was not straight out of the pits, that would have been even more embarrassing.
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