RE: 'Ring Insurance Could Save You £1000s
Discussion
cusimar9 said:
havoc said:
cusimar9 said:
ringweekends said:
As with most things in life, you purchase insurance to your requirements, mine were fully comp insurance for a UK registered car for use on the Nordschleife on Touristenfahrten, which is the cover I have.
PLEASE SHARE - Who are you insured with?...I'd suggest EVERYONE takes his posts with a large helping of salt!
Nano2nd said:
so if your insurance company comes after you for the money, say £100k and the court agrees your should pay them back... what then happens? i doubt many people can pay £100k cash, do they work out some sort of payment plan, or do they force you to sell your house, wife and dog etc?
Yes - you lose everything and declare yourself bankrupt to clear the remaining debt you owe them. Yet a German driver who did the same would only lose his/her excess...Sh'te, ain't it?!?
Nano2nd said:
so if your insurance company comes after you for the money, say £100k and the court agrees your should pay them back... what then happens? i doubt many people can pay £100k cash, do they work out some sort of payment plan, or do they force you to sell your house, wife and dog etc?
Yes, sell your assets to meet their damages claim, unless you want to declare yourself bankrupt..... Not the best position to be in. Your worst scenario is that your £1000 car lays down a lod of oil, which a German banker with a 7 figure package skids on an hits the barrier, disabling himself to the extent he needs 24h care for the rest of his life. His family also need compensation for his lack of earning power. Not a great outcome in my eyes. Not sure how far a court would go in seeking to ensure you met some part of this potential multi million EUR claim? Any insurance/legal bods care to comment?!
I just wonder, from a legal standpoint, if you hire a car from a hire car place in Cologne for example, take it to the Ring and run it round, and it dumps oil or coolant, where do you stand there? Insurance on the car probabaly excludes the ring but the car was not fit for purpose, and as the circuit is in Germany and a tourist road, surely you should be expected to have received a car that could cope? Just intrigued...
DM112233 said:
cliffie said:
Well that makes my mind up. No more trips to the Ring for me. Went begining of the month and was clearly not adequately covered.
I for one will spend my £££ on proper track days from now on, at least you know where you stand.
proper track days at the Ring are the answer.... they do exist I for one will spend my £££ on proper track days from now on, at least you know where you stand.
Edited by cliffie on Wednesday 22 July 09:04
Trying not to show any vested interest here, I love the place & go regually, but in my work I bring back a lot of bent UK cars from the 'ring- most of the cars discussed in this thread I've transported back & for me cars that need bringing back & insurance companies not footing the bill is business for me, but proper 'ring policies do exist, many folks have it & not many want to share who with & why would they?
The smugness of the "I've got 3rd party cover but I'm not telling you how" brigade really makes my piss boil. At least give us a clue guys!!
I've done the legwork, phoned all sorts of brokers from the back of specialist car magazines and got NOWHERE. The response that I've got is that no UK insurer will be willing to give me an assurance that I'm covered for 3rd party risks.
So, even if you won't tell us who's insuring you, at least, please, give us a bit of a clue as to how you went about finding them.
Cheers all
Jim
(Been going to the 'Ring since 2002, but probably not any more)
I've done the legwork, phoned all sorts of brokers from the back of specialist car magazines and got NOWHERE. The response that I've got is that no UK insurer will be willing to give me an assurance that I'm covered for 3rd party risks.
So, even if you won't tell us who's insuring you, at least, please, give us a bit of a clue as to how you went about finding them.
Cheers all
Jim
(Been going to the 'Ring since 2002, but probably not any more)
Im surprising myself a bit here by coming to the defence of Nurburgmotorsport.com but just got a mail from them pointing at their FAQ and I think they've explained the situation well enough here:
"Our understanding is that a UK vehicle policy will probably contain a clause to the effect that if the insurer is obligated to meet a claim it otherwise would not pay then the insurer is entitled to reclaim the settlement from the policy holder. "
"Our understanding is that a UK vehicle policy will probably contain a clause to the effect that if the insurer is obligated to meet a claim it otherwise would not pay then the insurer is entitled to reclaim the settlement from the policy holder. "
DM112233 said:
Im surprising myself a bit here by coming to the defence of Nurburgmotorsport.com but just got a mail from them pointing at their FAQ and I think they've explained the situation well enough here:
"Our understanding is that a UK vehicle policy will probably contain a clause to the effect that if the insurer is obligated to meet a claim it otherwise would not pay then the insurer is entitled to reclaim the settlement from the policy holder. "
No-one NEEDS to defend the 'ring themselves - they've not created the situation with UK insurers, the insurers have by trying to avoid paying for claims made at the 'ring."Our understanding is that a UK vehicle policy will probably contain a clause to the effect that if the insurer is obligated to meet a claim it otherwise would not pay then the insurer is entitled to reclaim the settlement from the policy holder. "
...the problem is that, because the 'ring is a public road, you can't have two policies on the one car, so while you have 'normal' cover you can't get additional cover for the 'ring. That your 'normal' cover will turn around and shaft you with an 18" strap-on as soon as you return to the UK is, apparently, YOUR problem not theirs.
So:-
insurers trying to duck claims
+ law fixed in this matter
= leads to UK drivers being (with a few lucky exceptions) completely uninsured (in the long-run) if driving on a TF day.
...and until either the law changes or the insurers change, that's going to remain the case. Oh...or the 'ring themselves could change to make it a proper circuit, but why should they to suit foreigners?!?
havoc said:
Oh...or the 'ring themselves could change to make it a proper circuit, but why should they to suit foreigners?!?
I also made that point previously... they already do so us brits can attend private trackdays on the ring where normal track day rules apply 800 quid for 2 days which isnt bad when you think about it (ie, no 3rd party liability and unlimited laps)
DM112233 said:
Im surprising myself a bit here by coming to the defence of Nurburgmotorsport.com but just got a mail from them pointing at their FAQ and I think they've explained the situation well enough here:
"Our understanding is that a UK vehicle policy will probably contain a clause to the effect that if the insurer is obligated to meet a claim it otherwise would not pay then the insurer is entitled to reclaim the settlement from the policy holder. "
That quote is stolen from my website http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/nurburgring_insura... The firm involved didn't ask permission to cut/paste it onto their website. Copyright or even common courtesy plainly means nothing to them."Our understanding is that a UK vehicle policy will probably contain a clause to the effect that if the insurer is obligated to meet a claim it otherwise would not pay then the insurer is entitled to reclaim the settlement from the policy holder. "
DM112233 said:
havoc said:
Oh...or the 'ring themselves could change to make it a proper circuit, but why should they to suit foreigners?!?
I also made that point previously... they already do so us brits can attend private trackdays on the ring where normal track day rules apply 800 quid for 2 days which isnt bad when you think about it (ie, no 3rd party liability and unlimited laps)
You could spend the rest of the weekend watching the chaos on the TF sessions and whatever motorsport may also be on inbetween.
DM112233 said:
lol - oops! stealing from solicitors - not too clever! 
you might want to check out the rest of the site in case anything else has been *borrowed* !!
Also from their website...you might want to check out the rest of the site in case anything else has been *borrowed* !!
Website Smallprint said:
'Your policy contains significant or unusual exclusions and limitations. There may be other exclusions in the policy that are significant to you so please ensure that you read the policy documentation and any other documentation carefully.'
'for full details please refer to the policy document, a copy of which will be supplied if you have purchased a policy.'
'The policy details will be provided on the website ... this is subject to German Law so it will be only available in the German language.'
These phrases have all been *borrowed* from some comedy website, presumably'for full details please refer to the policy document, a copy of which will be supplied if you have purchased a policy.'
'The policy details will be provided on the website ... this is subject to German Law so it will be only available in the German language.'
Edited by Tankslider on Thursday 23 July 18:10
Red Cabbage said:
RMA's one day event on 12/07/09 was £400. No muppets, no 3rd party liability, unlimited laps - bargain.
You could spend the rest of the weekend watching the chaos on the TF sessions and whatever motorsport may also be on inbetween.
The £400 RMA one day event was from 13:30, but went into the evening according to their site, so a bit more than a half day. Still looked like value though - if they get a summer day next year I might just be tempted.You could spend the rest of the weekend watching the chaos on the TF sessions and whatever motorsport may also be on inbetween.
To those who are wound up by all of the smug mob who claim to have insurance and won't tell - I agree entirely. I actually am one of them though - I managed to get cover through a scheme at work (essentially a corporate fleet policy for your own car) with a letter confirming that the underwriter agreed to fully comprehensive cover for TF on the Nordschleife. However, this information is no use to you as it is not available to anyone outside the firm. It also doesn't give me an ideal solution as it is (a) very expensive and (b) has no track day cover, so now that I am done with TF for the year I will be switching back to a normal track day friendly policy.
One wonders if those who do have cover have it as a result various kinds of business schemes though...?
DiscoColin said:
Red Cabbage said:
RMA's one day event on 12/07/09 was £400. No muppets, no 3rd party liability, unlimited laps - bargain.
You could spend the rest of the weekend watching the chaos on the TF sessions and whatever motorsport may also be on inbetween.
The £400 RMA one day event was from 13:30, but went into the evening according to their site, so a bit more than a half day. Still looked like value though - if they get a summer day next year I might just be tempted.You could spend the rest of the weekend watching the chaos on the TF sessions and whatever motorsport may also be on inbetween.
ringweekends said:
black_rex said:
Fact is with or without the specific wording, a UK insurer will not pay out your claim at the Ring.
I'm sorry - this is not a fact and is untrue.The 'fact' is, these matters are decided on a case by case basis depending upon the terms of policy wording on your insurance. Your insurance is not the same as my insurance is not the same as Dakkon's insurance. As with most things in life, you purchase insurance to your requirements, mine were fully comp insurance for a UK registered car for use on the Nordschleife on Touristenfahrten, which is the cover I have.
I do accept, especially being aware of Dakkon's case - that there is the 'we'll sue your ass anyway' clause - but again, that is policy specific and means you have to do your homework to get the policy that meets your requirements.
In an ideal world we would steer clear of sweeping generalisations and focus on facts, but I accept we're on the internet so anything goes.
IMO The Mightyyid has made a great point about how to approach driving the place - good advice everyone should heed.
See you over there
Edited by ringweekends on Wednesday 22 July 08:10
We could really do with knowing who you are insured with. You mention doing homework etc. I have done plenty and not really got anywhere!! I have been visiting the ring for several years, I have had a car live out there for 12 months and yet I have not encountered an insurance broker / underwriter that will cover me fully comprehensively, no arguments at the ring.
I would be more than happy to pay a premium (up to double my current policy level) to know that I was covered properly.
oh, and I would also be very interested in knowing about company schemes that do this sort of thing too. I may just have to set one up!
Cheers
Edited by RMac on Friday 24th July 02:33
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