'Ring Trip 28th - 30th May Crash. - M5 U.K. Car !
Discussion
Just got back from the 'Ring..
Great weekend, but saw a crash and just a little worried about the outcome.
BMW M5 drop some oil, and 6-7 cars end up everywhere !!
996 GT3 RS - BMW M3 - 997 GT3 RS - Honda Civic - Nissan (not sure of the model, in a bad way)- Scooby and can't remember the other.
The M5 dumped oil pulled off the track and tried to wave cars to slow down, but it was at a fast part of the track, and they could never of stopped !!
I understand the M5 driver was taken away and locked up ?
Any news, please post up. I want to make sure there were no serious injuries, and the M5 driver is ok.
Great weekend, but saw a crash and just a little worried about the outcome.
BMW M5 drop some oil, and 6-7 cars end up everywhere !!
996 GT3 RS - BMW M3 - 997 GT3 RS - Honda Civic - Nissan (not sure of the model, in a bad way)- Scooby and can't remember the other.
The M5 dumped oil pulled off the track and tried to wave cars to slow down, but it was at a fast part of the track, and they could never of stopped !!
I understand the M5 driver was taken away and locked up ?
Any news, please post up. I want to make sure there were no serious injuries, and the M5 driver is ok.
Agreed, he will have a big bill to pay for sure, but why is he responsible for other cars... it is likely he will not have cover.
It's not the best situation but anyone can drop fluids this has to be taken into consideration... It's funny, only in Deutschland, anywhere else and the place would be closed down, don't get me wrong, I love the Ring but there has been too many occasions I have been there and the Air Ambulance is taken someone away, usually a fatality.
It's not the best situation but anyone can drop fluids this has to be taken into consideration... It's funny, only in Deutschland, anywhere else and the place would be closed down, don't get me wrong, I love the Ring but there has been too many occasions I have been there and the Air Ambulance is taken someone away, usually a fatality.
Mattt said:
joe_90 said:
Why is he responsible for the other cars?
As I understand it...It's a public road, if you dropped fluid on any other normal road you would be liable for the consequences.
GreigM said:
This could get very nasty and somewhat interesting as the legalities are complex - could end up in a test case which challenges the UK insurance position of covering all of Germany except the ring.
You mean ANOTHER one. They are stacking up somewhat with the insurance ombudsman who appears to be uncertain of what the hell to do about it.I really really hope the guys insurance company do the decent thing and admit his insurance is valid. But I'm feeling a but sick in my stomach knowing how much they'll squirm to get out of it ....
mrmr96 said:
Mattt said:
joe_90 said:
Why is he responsible for the other cars?
As I understand it...It's a public road, if you dropped fluid on any other normal road you would be liable for the consequences.
If it's proven they lost control because of your oil/any other action then you are liable. But you're insured for that liability so no jail time for you.
Edited by Munter on Monday 31st May 09:33
Munter said:
GreigM said:
This could get very nasty and somewhat interesting as the legalities are complex - could end up in a test case which challenges the UK insurance position of covering all of Germany except the ring.
You mean ANOTHER one. They are stacking up somewhat with the insurance ombudsman who appears to be uncertain of what the hell to do about it.I really really hope the guys insurance company do the decent thing and admit his insurance is valid. But I'm feeling a but sick in my stomach knowing how much they'll squirm to get out of it ....
Munter said:
mrmr96 said:
Mattt said:
joe_90 said:
Why is he responsible for the other cars?
As I understand it...It's a public road, if you dropped fluid on any other normal road you would be liable for the consequences.
If it's proven they lost control because of your oil/any other action then you are liable. But you're insured for that liability so no jail time for you.
Edited by Munter on Monday 31st May 09:33
Edited by chr15b on Monday 31st May 10:54
We were trying to figure out what had happened - we were stood watching at Bergwerk and it went awfully quiet and then 3 ambulances and 2 safety cars went past so we followed the crowds to see what had happened.
Didn't look particularly nice, the white Scooby had been going round a bit slower on the lap previously too typically!
Didn't look particularly nice, the white Scooby had been going round a bit slower on the lap previously too typically!
Are you liable for the consequences of your vehicle dropping fluids on a public road?
First I'd look at the relevant national legislation to uncover if a strict liability offence is committed by the actus reus of a vehicle depositing it's fluids on the road.
We'd have to look at EU legislation to settle the situation regarding mutual recognition of vehicle roadwothiness legislation/regulation if the vehicle is not registered in Germany.
If this is not an offence per se, then we're into the realms of tort- Duty of care, breach of that duty of care, remoteness of damages, economic loss & the foreseeability & causation tests which flow from the remoteness question plus establishing the actual economic loss suffered by the plaintiff.
ALWAYS put your plaintiff to proof.
NEVER roll over & admit liability or make statements at the scene in the absence of legal representation.
DO provide your personal details, name, address etc but nothing else.
Leave it to a professional to cross-examine witnesses, analyse statements & vet police reports.
This is a public highway on which everyone has an obligation to operate a vehicle within the road code & the pertinent regulations governing that stretch of road.
I don't know the details of the German road code, but in many jurisdictions it is a requirement that a driver is able to stop in half the clear distance ahead of them.
If someone hit oil at 200kmh with only 200m visibility available at the point at which they lost control of their vehicle there's an arguable case of careless if not dangerous driving plus the possibility of a contributory negligence defence.
I've long been out of the game, but most clients are their own worst enemies.
If in doubt - keep your mouth shut & leave it to the prosecution to prove their case.
Never assume your own culpability. NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING!
Also do not believe everything your read on the internet - this included.
DO BELIEVE the guy charging your £800/hour to haul your sorry arse out of this mess!
First I'd look at the relevant national legislation to uncover if a strict liability offence is committed by the actus reus of a vehicle depositing it's fluids on the road.
We'd have to look at EU legislation to settle the situation regarding mutual recognition of vehicle roadwothiness legislation/regulation if the vehicle is not registered in Germany.
If this is not an offence per se, then we're into the realms of tort- Duty of care, breach of that duty of care, remoteness of damages, economic loss & the foreseeability & causation tests which flow from the remoteness question plus establishing the actual economic loss suffered by the plaintiff.
ALWAYS put your plaintiff to proof.
NEVER roll over & admit liability or make statements at the scene in the absence of legal representation.
DO provide your personal details, name, address etc but nothing else.
Leave it to a professional to cross-examine witnesses, analyse statements & vet police reports.
This is a public highway on which everyone has an obligation to operate a vehicle within the road code & the pertinent regulations governing that stretch of road.
I don't know the details of the German road code, but in many jurisdictions it is a requirement that a driver is able to stop in half the clear distance ahead of them.
If someone hit oil at 200kmh with only 200m visibility available at the point at which they lost control of their vehicle there's an arguable case of careless if not dangerous driving plus the possibility of a contributory negligence defence.
I've long been out of the game, but most clients are their own worst enemies.
If in doubt - keep your mouth shut & leave it to the prosecution to prove their case.
Never assume your own culpability. NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING!
Also do not believe everything your read on the internet - this included.
DO BELIEVE the guy charging your £800/hour to haul your sorry arse out of this mess!
Dan7357 said:
Prolex-UK said:
Just back myself.
I was told all cars involved were english.
Nope ! Only the M5 I was told all cars involved were english.
I seem to remember them all being German apart from the M5 (UK) and Impreza (Scandanavian?)
It was a real mess, I wouldn't want to be receiving the bill for it.
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